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Brooks Reed and Clay Matthews

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  • Brooks Reed and Clay Matthews

    Was Clay Matthews a much better prospect coming into the draft??? Was he seen as a 3-4 OLB prospect before the Packers drafted him?? Was Matthews seen as a 1st rounder??

    Difference is Reed played DE in college while Matthews play LB, so would Reed have an advantage with him being more used to rushing the passer???

    How does Reed compare to him athletically, speed, agility, and strength?? That will probably not be determined until the combined...

  • #2
    Originally posted by jetsfan0099 View Post
    Was Clay Matthews a much better prospect coming into the draft??? Was he seen as a 3-4 OLB prospect before the Packers drafted him?? Was Matthews seen as a 1st rounder??

    Difference is Reed played DE in college while Matthews play LB, so would Reed have an advantage with him being more used to rushing the passer???

    How does Reed compare to him athletically, speed, agility, and strength?? That will probably not be determined until the combined...
    Matthews played mostly DE in college with Rey Rey in the middle and Cushing on the outside. I think where Matthews got everyone's attention was at the combine where he showed great agility and speed for a 240 lb guy.

    Reed i think is probably a poor mans version of Clay at this point, if he too can max the combine then he can climb the charts pretty quickly. He can probably thank Matthews for establishing the mold there and we'll see how close of a copy he is.

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    • #3
      Brooks Reed is nowhere near the level of Clay Matthews, sorry. I know he has long blond hair so its cute to make the comparison but lets not be ridiculous here. Reed does not have the burst, quickness, and explosive first step Matthews has. He has the motor -- but so do a lot of the other pass rushers in this class yet we don't compare them to Clay? Oh, yep, that's right -- Reed has hair just like Matthews so we have to make the comparison. I thought DC's "The next Clay Matthews" blog on the homepage was very unnecessary

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      • #4
        i had no idea where to place clay in the draft....cushing was obviously an OLB in a 43, Maualuga was obviously a 34 MLB (even though hes not one now oddly enough) and matthews was very tough to place for me....the packers got it right though, but it wasnt until the combine that he was really being placed anywhere
        E]

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Nebula View Post
          Brooks Reed is nowhere near the level of Clay Matthews, sorry. I know he has long blond hair so its cute to make the comparison but lets not be ridiculous here. Reed does not have the burst, quickness, and explosive first step Matthews has. He has the motor -- but so do a lot of the other pass rushers in this class yet we don't compare them to Clay? Oh, yep, that's right -- Reed has hair just like Matthews so we have to make the comparison. I thought DC's "The next Clay Matthews" blog on the homepage was very unnecessary
          I think we're trying to compare them at similar stages in their careers. Reed probably has been more productive than Clay was at USC.

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          • #6
            There's so much revisionist history about Clay Matthews being this stellar prospect at this point. I LOVED the kid, but he had some major knocks too. Just like Reed, people doubted his athleticism. Go back and read some of Scott's blogs on Clay before the combine. People thought he too small and slow. This "elite first step/quickness burst" thing is crap. That's what people thought was holding Clay back as a prospect. He had about as much experience standing up and playing linebacker as Reed did too.

            If anything, Reed is a better pure prospect than Matthews was at a similar point. He's just as good of an athlete at a larger size. Go back and watch some tape. He'll run in the 4.6's and is absolutely blazing off the line. He's also been a ton more productive. Matthews bloomed late and only had the necessary size/strength to make his way into the starting lineup at USC his Senior year. Reed has lot more good film on him than Matthews did coming out. The only real comparison between the two and the thing that make sit valid is the way that both of them move/how active they are made them both very good prospects outside in a 3-4 despite the lack of pass rush moves and elite sack numbers. They also both really made their name at the Senior Bowl. The hair thing I could care less about, but he's a similar transition type guy who it's not hard to see being a better player in a different role.

            But yeah, it's going to be awfully popular to be like "LOL REED IS NO CLAY" because not many people talked about him/saw him play during the season and Clay is coming off of a DPOY type season. No one is saying Brooks Reed is for sure going to be the next Clay Matthews, but there are some key similarities that don't involve hair.
            Last edited by ElectricEye; 02-01-2011, 05:42 PM.

            R.I.P. Junior Seau

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            • #7
              Reed is a good prospect, I like him a lot more than Ricky Elmore at the next level mainly because Elmore lacks the athletic ability that I actually think Reed has. With that said the big difference between Reed and Matthews is the change of direction skills.

              Matthews timed a 6.90 in the 3-cone drill in the combine. That's amazing for a defensive end/outside linebacker prospect. For a cornerback that's a fairly good time, not elite but good. Reed, well I haven't seen him drop into coverage much and when I have I don't see the quick feet and mobility in the hips and torso from Reed to replicate Matthews time. I see the explosiveness and natural pass rushing ability from Reed though. I'd take a second round flier on him with his ability, pending his combine times. Dude was really good in the senior bowl as well.

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              • #8
                Yeah Clay was not an elite prospect by any means. Being a former walk on people questioned his athleticism, and playing with Mauluga (sp?) and Cushing people questioned his production as well, which wasn't stellar to begin with. Most people had both of those guys above him and Clay was the questionable third one. I remember people putting Clay either in the 20s or not in the first round that year.

                Thanks to BK for the sig

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ElectricEye View Post
                  There's so much revisionist history about Clay Matthews being this stellar prospect at this point. I LOVED the kid, but he had some major knocks too. Just like Reed, people doubted his athleticism. Go back and read some of Scott's blogs on Clay before the combine. People thought he too small and slow. This "elite first step/quickness burst" thing is crap. That's what people thought was holding Clay back as a prospect. He had about as much experience standing up and playing linebacker as Reed did too.

                  If anything, Reed is a better pure prospect than Matthews was at a similar point. He's just as good of an athlete at a larger size. Go back and watch some tape. He'll run in the 4.6's and is absolutely blazing off the line. He's also been a ton more productive. Matthews bloomed late and only had the necessary size/strength to make his way into the starting lineup at USC his Senior year. Reed has lot more good film on him than Matthews did coming out. The only real comparison between the two and the thing that make sit valid is the way that both of them move/how active they are made them both very good prospects outside in a 3-4 despite the lack of pass rush moves and elite sack numbers. They also both really made their name at the Senior Bowl. The hair thing I could care less about, but he's a similar transition type guy who it's not hard to see being a better player in a different role.

                  But yeah, it's going to be awfully popular to be like "LOL REED IS NO CLAY" because not many people talked about him/saw him play during the season and Clay is coming off of a DPOY type season. No one is saying Brooks Reed is for sure going to be the next Clay Matthews, but there are some key similarities that don't involve hair.
                  I don't understand you trying to make Brooks Reed the "underdog" here. If anything you're slightly overrating him if you're going to compare him to Clay Matthews at this point and time.

                  First and foremost, Brooks Reed is consensually a 3rd round pick. Matthews was a 2nd/3rd round pick before he blew up the combine and snuck into the 1st which Reed will not do so I don't see the comparison there (he preformed well at the senior bowl but not enough to spring himself into the first round like clay matthews or alualu did). Secondly, nobody is questioning his athleticism, but there is more to rushing the passer than just pure athleticism or size/strength/speed. Similar to Bowers, Reed lacks the elite burst and explosiveness off the ball that OLBs like james harrison and clay matthews have. You're supposed to have that naturally. It's what makes those OLBs so special. Reed will be a very good player in the NFL but not in the Clay Matthews' mold. He doesn't have that burst, quickness, and overall explosiveness off the ball to be an elite stand-up rusher. Just watch a couple of minutes of film on the guy and you will see it. He would be better off gaining some bulk and playing as a DE. He has other qualities as of a 3-4 OLB but not that burst and explosiveness.

                  Although brooks doesn't have the weight for it at the moment, he would be better off in a 4-3.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bengalsbuckeye_28 View Post
                    Reed is a good prospect, I like him a lot more than Ricky Elmore at the next level mainly because Elmore lacks the athletic ability that I actually think Reed has. With that said the big difference between Reed and Matthews is the change of direction skills.

                    Matthews timed a 6.90 in the 3-cone drill in the combine. That's amazing for a defensive end/outside linebacker prospect. For a cornerback that's a fairly good time, not elite but good. Reed, well I haven't seen him drop into coverage much and when I have I don't see the quick feet and mobility in the hips and torso from Reed to replicate Matthews time. I see the explosiveness and natural pass rushing ability from Reed though. I'd take a second round flier on him with his ability, pending his combine times. Dude was really good in the senior bowl as well.
                    I think he surprised a lot of people at the combine, he ran a low 4.6 35" vert, 4.12 short shuttle and 10.1 jump. The thing that probably dropped him a bit was a short resume on the field, in hindsight he'd go pretty high, probably 4th to Seattle, sigh.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nebula View Post
                      First and foremost, Brooks Reed is consensually a 3rd round pick.
                      Not according to most boards by scouting services. He's worked his way up to the top 50 for a lot of people and was probably a possibility in the second round before the Senior Bowl anyway.

                      Originally posted by Nebula View Post
                      Matthews was a 2nd/3rd round pick before he blew up the combine and snuck into the 1st which Reed will not do so I don't see the comparison there (he preformed well at the senior bowl but not enough to spring himself into the first round like clay matthews or alualu did).
                      Again, I'll trust my own eyes and what people are writing here. He was very good down in Mobile this week and was routinely getting by tackles that will likely go in the first round.

                      Originally posted by Nebula View Post
                      Secondly, nobody is questioning his athleticism, but there is more to rushing the passer than just pure athleticism or size/strength/speed. Similar to Bowers, Reed lacks the elite burst and explosiveness off the ball that OLBs like james harrison and clay matthews have. You're supposed to have that naturally. It's what makes those OLBs so special. Reed will be a very good player in the NFL but not in the Clay Matthews' mold. He doesn't have that burst, quickness, and overall explosiveness off the ball to be an elite stand-up rusher. Just watch a couple of minutes of film on the guy and you will see it. He would be better off gaining some bulk and playing as a DE. He has other qualities as of a 3-4 OLB but not that burst and explosiveness.
                      I've watched more than enough film on Reed. He's been my guy for awhile now even before the post Senior Bowl hype train started moving. Completely disagree with you on lacking an elite burst. That's what makes him so attractive. The book on him has always been that he'll play faster than he times but now that it's out there he's going to time lower people are flipping that around for some reason in order to distance themselves from liking him too much as a prospect. He'll run 4.6 and likely put up a good first ten yards too. Hell, his weakness would be that if doesn't beat the guy right off the line he doesn't have the moves to get by him.

                      Originally posted by Nebula View Post
                      Although brooks doesn't have the weight for it at the moment, he would be better off in a 4-3.
                      NFL Teams completely disagree with you. Reed has said in interviews that nearly ever team he has talked to views him as an OLB and very few are interested in playing him in a 4-3. Playing defensive end almost takes away from the things he does really well even.

                      R.I.P. Junior Seau

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ElectricEye View Post
                        Not according to most boards by scouting services. He's worked his way up to the top 50 for a lot of people and was probably a possibility in the second round before the Senior Bowl anyway.
                        But he's not sneaking into the first round which is my main point. Clay Matthews took a huge leap after his senior bowl and then combine. Reed had a decent senior bowl, really. His combine is still up in the air but I doubt he has a great combine like clay matthews did too


                        Again, I'll trust my own eyes and what people are writing here. He was very good down in Mobile this week and was routinely getting by tackles that will likely go in the first round.
                        This is a very average offensive tackle class. I think I only saw 1 one his sacks (I think he had 1.5 or 2 sacks, dunno) and that was more of the QB taking literally a 10-step drop and the tackle also stopped his feet and reached which was poor technique by him. Reed just went by him easily, yes, but when he went by him it wasn't in an "explosive manner" if that made sense. Costanazo (i believe it was) didn't reach and lean because Reed beat him off the line of scrimmage, he reached and leaned because the QB took a terrible drop and Reed easily had the angle.



                        I've watched more than enough film on Reed. He's been my guy for awhile now even before the post Senior Bowl hype train started moving. Completely disagree with you on lacking an elite burst. That's what makes him so attractive. The book on him has always been that he'll play faster than he times but now that it's out there he's going to time lower people are flipping that around for some reason in order to distance themselves from liking him too much as a prospect. He'll run 4.6 and likely put up a good first ten yards too. Hell, his weakness would be that if doesn't beat the guy right off the line he doesn't have the moves to get by him.
                        I really don't see that elite burst. I've seen him take over late in games because his terrific motor. He is like a robot that never stops and gives 100-100 on every play. But really, I just don't see his burst and explosiveness off the ball as his specialty. Its more of his technique/motor to me. He is not always the first player off the ball (and definitely not the senior bowl), if ever. And if he is, he doesn't stand out to you like a Clay Matthews. Matthews has his guy beat off the line nearly everytime because of his burst, I don't see that with Reed. I'd also have to disagree he lacks the move to turn his initial burst into sacks. I think he has a great combination of pass rush moves. I guess we've been really watching two different players.


                        NFL Teams completely disagree with you. Reed has said in interviews that nearly ever team he has talked to views him as an OLB and very few are interested in playing him in a 4-3. Playing defensive end almost takes away from the things he does really well even.
                        Yeah, this is true. But I think they see him as an OLB because of not only his frame but the other qualities for a linebacker -- like his fluidity, instincts, and run stuffing ability. I'm not even completely convinced if he can hold up in coverage. But he is not Clay Matthews in the sense that he has great quickness, burst, and explosive ability which is really how matthews made most of his plays in college.

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                        • #13
                          I thought Matthews was the best LB on that USC squad. Didn't think he'd make this kind of impact so early in the pros, ( helps to have future HOFer Kevin Greene as your LB coach!!), but in Clay's last year at USC, he was the playmaker on that D.

                          When he showed he had the athleticism to easily transition fulltime to OLB, I wanted him drafted by the SKins over Orakpo.

                          Maualuga(sp) was my next fave USB 'backer, and I thought Cushing would bust with the same injury problems he had in college.

                          I haven't seen Brooks Reed take one snap in college, but reading his profile and production, it leads me to believe once again there's incredible depth at OLB and OLB conversion prospects in this draft.

                          Soooo many guys look like potential starters in the pros it's ridiculous.

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                          • #14


                            Reed is more athletic than given credit for.

                            That is a video of Jeff Maehl, look at the 36 second mark where Maehl gets a screen pass, Reed comes off of his assignment (he was fooled on a fake zone read and ran to the left for a few yards) and catches up with a db with an angle and then runs stride for stride for about 20 yards, this is after running at least over 30 yards to catch up. Clay Matthews didn't make that many plays in college, he was a late bloomer (grew a few inches in height during his college years) and wasn't suited for the 4-3 defense, where he played mostly DE. Reed put up 7 sacks this season and 8 his sophomore season when he was healthy. Clay Matthews had 4 sacks his best season at USC. From the video I have seen, like the video on the Brooks Reed link, he received more double teams than his teammate Elmore, and also has a nice spin move. He looks to have a good burst, it looks better than the db in this video.
                            Last edited by batsandgats; 02-01-2011, 10:45 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Brooks Reed is nowhere near the level of Clay Matthews, sorry. I know he has long blond hair so its cute to make the comparison but lets not be ridiculous here. Reed does not have the burst, quickness, and explosive first step Matthews has. He has the motor -- but so do a lot of the other pass rushers in this class yet we don't compare them to Clay? Oh, yep, that's right -- Reed has hair just like Matthews so we have to make the comparison. I thought DC's "The next Clay Matthews" blog on the homepage was very unnecessary
                              Yeah it has absolutely nothing to do with them both playing the same college positions, in the same division, being comparable sizes, projecting to the same positions, being high motor guys, who at the same point in the draft were considered comparable athletes who were self made, lowly recruited/walk on types that worked their asses off to be draftable prospects. Nope, it's entirely that they both have godlike hair...

                              Lets not forget that Matthews was a borderline first rounder after a very good senior bowl who then shattered the perceptions on him at the combine with some quite simply outstanding results. If Brooks can do the same there is no reason he can't shoot up to a middle 1st round grade.


                              Props to BK on the sig!

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