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  • Originally posted by batsandgats View Post
    Yeah, its real likely his coordinator is going to bash him on public television if he had negative thoughts about him. How often does that happen? A coach might tell teams in private about certain issues but come on, seriously? The guy simply defended his offense to to distance it from the "system" label so that it will be easier to recruit guys like Cam, athletic quarterbacks, so they don't wind up going to say, somewhere like Ohio State.
    Pete Caroll "Sanchez is not ready for the NFL"
    Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji


    DEATH NOTE MAFIA SIGNUP!

    Originally posted by njx9
    oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by broth223 View Post
      Pete Caroll "Sanchez is not ready for the NFL"
      He was so butt hurt when he said that too.
      **** her in da *****!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Complex View Post
        That Nolan guy said that he is holding information that could really hurt Cam Newton stock but won't release it because he does want to or something like that. He also said he knew about Reggie Bush accepting improper benefits long before everyone else but choose not to release that information. So apparently Nolan Nawrocki is the James Bond of draft analyst. He said all this on the Dan Patrick show BTW.

        This is what the Panthers GM had to say





        http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ds-cam-newton/

        Glad you found a recording of the interview Malzahn had Friday morning with Mike and Mike.
        It's not the full interview, maybe it's missing a couple minutes, but it was Malzahn who said that Cam Newton set the NCAA passing efficiency record last year and precisely where I picked up little detail from!!
        Anyway, like others have said, it's unusual for a college coordinator, position or HC to publicly rip a player or discuss his shortcomings honestly.

        I'm sure Les Miles knew all about the problems Jarmarcus Russell would face moving on to the NFL. And Mack Brown was intimately aware of the emotional frailty of VY, ( he 'quit' the UT football program at least once his first three years there.)

        It's good to see that voices are coming out to rebut some of Nawrocki's opinions on Newton's character, the downside is Nawrocki is now 'famous' for unfairly smearing a player.

        Comment


        • I think comparing Newton to Russel is unfair to Newton. Newton seems to have the physical attributes Russel didn't, like being in shape. The other stuff, I have no idea about.

          Comment


          • broth223
            Pete Caroll "Sanchez is not ready for the NFL"
            Did Jim Plunkett or Tom Flores claim that Carroll said that because Sanchez was Latino, accusing Carroll of being racist for making such a negative comment towards the QB and his prospects in the NFL?
            No he didn't. No race card was played by anyone. Just a difference of opinion, which happens with every prospect (see: Tebow, Rodgers, Jamarcus, Leinart, Bradford, Brady, Vince Young, Marino....)

            BigBanger
            Race is always going to be brought up with everything and anything.
            Not really... only from the black community/players.
            How often have you heard b*tching from the Indian community that Brandon Chillar is the only Indian in the NFL?

            How often have you heard people -like Warren Moon- complain that there are no white CBs in the league? None. All the white college CBs get branded with the "stiff hips" label in their scouting report somehow.

            Or that Peyton Hillis was the first white RB to get to 1000 yards in the league since the mid 1980's?
            Very rarely, if ever, is it mentioned on a telecast. But we always hear it if it's from the black angle, whether it's a player or coach..... not enough GMs, etc.

            Race is only always brought up by one side, and to be honest, most everybody else is way beyond sick of it.

            Comment


            • I like Nawrocki. He is as accurate as any of the other guys and is willing to critique players that others won't. It's not easy to find people willing to do this because it hurts business in a society where people tune out those that say things they don't want to hear. Most people should stick to McShay/Kiper/Mayock so the won't have their feelings hurt. It seems that people have a personal investment with these players and take it as an attack on themselves personally when their guy takes a hit. Detachment is an important tool.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by descendency View Post
                He was so butt hurt when he said that too.
                Pete was only thinking of himself of course. In reality Sanchez probably wasnt ready for the NFL, which seemingly doesnt have much to do about where you'll be drafted

                On a slightly differant note. The Buffalo Bills have shown interest in Blaine Gabbert as well as Cam Newton, commenting that Gabbert is a similar athlete to Newton. For Buffalo i wouldnt draft either of those guys there but i can see why they might think so. Look for both of these guys to be gone by the 5th pick. Again just for public record they wouldnt be my favorites.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Rabscuttle View Post
                  I like Nawrocki. He is as accurate as any of the other guys and is willing to critique players that others won't. It's not easy to find people willing to do this because it hurts business in a society where people tune out those that say things they don't want to hear. Most people should stick to McShay/Kiper/Mayock so the won't have their feelings hurt. It seems that people have a personal investment with these players and take it as an attack on themselves personally when their guy takes a hit. Detachment is an important tool.
                  There's a difference between critiquing a player and slander.

                  What Nawrocki said about Newton would be like someone saying not only is Illini LB Martez Wilson slow to diagnose plays, he's also a coward who lacks courage to overcome adversity and will be first to surrender when things get tough.

                  IMO that's the equivalent of Nawrocki's negative opinion on Newton; he went from making an analysis based on empirical observation to instead ruminating on his own personal theories and psychological diagnoses of Cam Newton.

                  That's not scouting. That's throwing piles of dog poop at a prospect and hoping you land a headshot.

                  Also, Nawrocki came at Newton harder than Carroll ever did at Sanchez. Carroll praised Mark before explaining why he should stay another year, which basically came down to Carroll articulating that Mark would increase his preparedness for the NFL with more college starts.

                  He didn't attack Sanchez' character.

                  Blacks have a unique position of being a minority population in the U.S. but representing the overwhelming majority of NFL and FBS football players.

                  I agree I don't like to hear an announcer say x-player is the 'first' AA to do etc., because said accomplishment no longer represents overcoming institutional racism and really is just a career milestone for a coach or player.

                  The league doesn't bench all the Black QBs once the playoffs start, or suspend every AA HC.

                  Complaining, or becoming vocal about a perceived grievance is how things change in this country. It's what mobilizes political movements and gets laws passed.
                  No one respects you for bending over, grabbing your ankles and biting a hole in your pillow while you dutifully get plowed.

                  However, we the public decide whether you grievance is justified.
                  Most people on this board think Moon was wrong in his racial criticism of Nawrocki because it isn't relevant since no one knows what's going on inside his head.
                  If the analysis is overboard, then it is. Doesn't really matter why.

                  And honestly, only because it would be cool to see it because you really don't that much beyond HS, but how many White RBs and corners are there starting for BCS schools to say they're really being discriminated against by the NFL??

                  Those dudes are being screwed by college recruiters early on in the process.

                  And don't expect to ever hear some analyst give props to Hillis for breaking a thousand yards because he's White.

                  Wait until Tobey Gerhart gets traded in about 5 years to a ground pound team, his jersey sales will be epic!!
                  Last edited by FUNBUNCHER; 04-02-2011, 09:09 PM.

                  Comment


                  • http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...=202475&spln=1

                    Anybody who still believes Nolan is only doing so because he is saying what you want to believe about Newton.

                    Comment


                    • I highly doubt Nawrocki put these thoughts to paper without having sources providing this information to him. It also is obvious that Nawrocki implicitly trusts these sources because he knew that he could be committing career suicide by making those statements without any support to do so. Clearly he is not going to reveal his sources. Those criticizing Nawrocki for not having met Newton have a point to the degree that Nawrocki is not writing from his own personal experience, but virtually no journalist is writing about any player's character from personal experience as they don't get enough time with the player to learn that for themselves.

                      Nawrocki would have verified that his source had the means to know Newton to the degree where that person could make statements about Newton's character from personal experience. I have read reports that indicate that Nawrocki hit the nail on the head about Newton per some scouts. The vast majority of people who have commented say that he is off.

                      If these comments make teams go back and re-assess Newton to some degree, that can only be a good thing for the teams that do that. Whether they remain committed to choosing him or decide to back off on pursuing him, it's worth their time to feel comfortable with the decision they make.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by anansi View Post
                        http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...=202475&spln=1

                        Anybody who still believes Nolan is only doing so because he is saying what you want to believe about Newton.
                        Not really. People are generally willing to tell pleasant lies in public when their name is attached to it, rather than give honest opinions that can be thrown back in their faces later. The amount of subterfuge in the draft business is frankly astonishing, it's entirely likely that a number of people praising a prospect publicly is due to teams trying to sandbag another team into taking that guy early (c.f. the Patriots and Gholston). This sort of thing happens all the year. You basically can't trust anything an NFL scout or personnel director will tell you on the record between February and May. The things they tell you off the record are about 50/50.

                        A couple of things to note. Is Softli even employed by an NFL team currently? If not, he's really no better than Nawrocki here. Second, it can't be hard to find sources at Newton's alma maters who will say nice things about him, since that gets him drafted higher and "we will get you drafted high" is a huge recruiting tool.
                        Last edited by PossibleCabbage; 04-02-2011, 01:47 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by J-Mike88 View Post



                          How often have you heard people -like Warren Moon- complain that there are no white CBs in the league? None. All the white college CBs get branded with the "stiff hips" label in their scouting report somehow.

                          Or that Peyton Hillis was the first white RB to get to 1000 yards in the league since the mid 1980's?
                          Very rarely, if ever, is it mentioned on a telecast. But we always hear it if it's from the black angle, whether it's a player or coach..... not enough GMs, etc.
                          Hope your not serious

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by njx9
                            so no one should say anything ever about a player's intangibles, in your opinion? anyone calling russell lazy and stupid is slandering him? *eyeroll* you're basically saying "it's only fair to critique a guy i like on the criteria i've decided is ok." that's not only bad scouting, it's dishonest. is nawrocki wrong? maybe, we'll find out. somehow i doubt you were this vocal in defending jamarcus russell and jimmy clausen from all of the 'slander'.
                            Under “negatives” for Newton, Nawrocki writes, “Very disingenuous — has a fake smile, comes off as very scripted and has a selfish, me-first makeup. Always knows where the cameras are and plays to them. Has an enormous ego with a sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law — does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room . . . Lacks accountability, focus and trustworthiness — is not punctual, seeks shortcuts and sets a bad example. Immature and has had issues with authority. Not dependable.

                            Many of these critiques aren't even related to football.

                            Who cares if Cam 'plays' to the camera??
                            Disingenuous?? Only a person who's known Newton for a significant period of time could really make this statement, like a coach or teammate.

                            '..sense of entitlement that continually invites trouble and makes him believe he is above the law.' At UF?? Auburn?? Or does Nawrocki mean currently, as in the last few weeks?? Too broad and general a criticism IMO. The difference between saying someone has had past run-ins with the law versus calling that person a 'criminal'.

                            When's the last time Cam was in trouble?? 2008??

                            Really, I think folks would have let Nawrocki slide with his scouting report in general, but when he stated emphatically that Cam, ' does not command respect from teammates and will always struggle to win a locker room,' common sense and the evidence of last season IMO contradicts this.
                            Newton and Auburn could not have accomplished what they did last season if there was a schism in leadership between Cam and his football team.

                            This is the one statement that makes me wonder, did someone tell Nawrocki this, or did he extrapolate it on his own??
                            I really have a hard time believing an unnamed source would validate this comment, because on its face it sounds ridiculous.

                            If Auburn had not gone undefeated and won the NC, this opinion maybe carries more weight, but when Auburn and Newton have just completed one of the greatest seasons in recent college football, I'd like to hear at least the thought process on how Nawrocki or his sources reached this opinion.

                            Great thing about unnamed 'sources', there's always plausible denial.

                            BTW, if people were attacking Clausen's character and leadership after he had just led ND to an undefeated season, Heisman trophy and NC, it wouldn't sound plausible.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
                              There's a difference between critiquing a player and slander.

                              What Nawrocki said about Newton would be like someone saying not only is Illini LB Martez Wilson slow to diagnose plays, he's also a coward who lacks courage to overcome adversity and will be first to surrender when things get tough.

                              IMO that's the equivalent of Nawrocki's negative opinion on Newton; he went from making an analysis based on empirical observation to instead ruminating on his own personal theories and psychological diagnoses of Cam Newton.

                              That's not scouting. That's throwing piles of dog poop at a prospect and hoping you land a headshot.

                              Also, Nawrocki came at Newton harder than Carroll ever did at Sanchez. Carroll praised Mark before explaining why he should stay another year, which basically came down to Carroll articulating that Mark would increase his preparedness for the NFL with more college starts.

                              He didn't attack Sanchez' character.

                              Blacks have a unique position of being a minority population in the U.S. but representing the overwhelming majority of NFL and FBS football players.

                              I agree I don't like to hear an announcer say x-player is the 'first' AA to do etc., because said accomplishment no longer represents overcoming institutional racism and really is just a career milestone for a coach or player.

                              The league doesn't bench all the Black QBs once the playoffs start, or suspend every AA HC.

                              Complaining, or becoming vocal about a perceived grievance is how things change in this country. It's what mobilizes political movements and gets laws passed.
                              No one respects you for bending over, grabbing your ankles and biting a hole in your pillow while you dutifully get plowed.

                              However, we the public decide whether you grievance is justified.
                              Most people on this board think Moon was wrong in his racial criticism of Nawrocki because it isn't relevant since no one knows what's going on inside his head.
                              If the analysis is overboard, than it is. Doesn't really matter why.

                              And honestly, only because it would be cool to see it because you really don't that much beyond HS, but how many White RBs and corners are there starting for BCS schools to say they're really being discriminated against by the NFL??

                              Those dudes are being screwed by college recruiters early on in the process.

                              And don't expect to ever hear some analyst give props to Hillis for breaking a thousand yards because he's White.

                              Wait until Tobey Gerhart gets traded in about 5 years to a ground pound team, his jersey sales will be epic!!
                              It's pretty simple. This is how Nawrocki scouts and what he puts into a players critique, especially with QBs (which is a completely valid critique). This is what all his scouting reports look like. He gave a fairly glowing review of Jimmy Clausen and then said this:

                              Had a strong supporting cast with receivers who attacked the ball. Has a sense of entitlement, having attended private schools, worked with private QB coaches and being sheltered by his family, who bought a house on campus so his brothers had a place to stay for every game. Arrogant - can come off as having all the answers and struggle to win a locker room. Still immature. Comes across as overly staged, scripted and disingenuous in interviews and does not have the type of presence desired in the face of a franchise. Is not a fan of the weight room.

                              Summary: A tough, instinctive, competitive gamer who overhauled his mechanics from the time he was a freshman, physically matured and developed into a decisive marksman. Has been groomed by Charlie Weis and has an advanced understanding of the game that will allow him to step into a starting lineup readily. However, he is cut from a similar cloth as Rex Grossman and J.P. Losman, possessing an elitist attitude and selfishness that could polarize a locker room and create needless drama that may detract from a team. The defining question of his career is whether he possesses the intangibles and make-up to become a leader and win the respect of his teammates.
                              Say what you want, but he puts into words exactly what he means when he refers to leadership questions and / or character questions. Other people, most people, just say so and so's leadership qualities are questionable. Nawrocki goes into detail, doesn't mix words and backs up his comments.


                              What did he say about Sam Bradford?

                              Positives: Extremely smart and competitive. Decisive. Knows where to go with the ball and gets rid of it very quickly with precision accuracy. Stays composed and is not easily rattled under duress - stands in the pocket and delivers the ball. Sets quickly and steps into his throws. Has quick enough feet to avoid the first wave and escape the rush in a short area - moves and avoids and can hasten his delivery and whip it quickly when needed. Shows very good touch and outstanding accuracy. Can drive the intermediate route and consistently connect deep. Fits the ball into tight windows and can thread the needle. Arm is strong enough to make every throw. Throws a very catchable ball. Very good anticipation and timing at every level. Outstanding positional instincts. Is a well-respected, determined leader who commands respect -takes the game very seriously. Has rare leadership qualities and mental makeup and is intensely competitive - gathered his teammates on the sideline against Miami (Fla.) while he was out with an injury and ripped them. Highly motivated. Mature beyond his years and handles himself like a pro. Very tough and will play through pain.

                              Negatives: Has not played much under center, operating heavily out of the shotgun, nor has he made pro-style, NFL reads in OU's simplified offense. Lacks strength with a narrow build and does not have a rifle arm - loses some ball velocity on the move. Tends to use a sidearm delivery. Often operated with a clean pocket early in his career and does not like to step up in the pocket. Not a scrambler and will not create with his feet. Played with a very strong supporting cast as a sophomore and did not always feel the rush (behind a leaky, makeshift offensive line) as a junior. Needs to learn how to land and brace himself from contact to preserve his health. Is coming off season-ending shoulder surgery after landing on his throwing shoulder twice as a junior.

                              Summary: Does not have the arm or athletic talent of John Elway or Troy Aikman, but Bradford's accuracy is as good as any quarterback since Philip Rivers entered the draft, and his competitive spirit, intelligence and accuracy will allow him to develop readily. Would be most effective in a fast-paced, shotgun-prevalent offense similar to that of the Colts, where he will not have to adjust to working as much from underneath center. Durability is his greatest concern. Could be the first overall player drafted in a QB-driven league and should be able to contribute immediately and develop into a great pro.
                              That's pretty damn accurate if you ask me.


                              Positives: Has all the physical ability in the world and is one of the most naturally gifted throwers ever to play the game. Has rare size and arm strength and can really power the ball down the field. Effortless thrower who flicks the ball with ease. Has a 100 m.p.h. fastball and can zing it into tight coverage. Is tough to bring down and not easily sacked. Stands tall in the pocket, can brush off the pass rush and deliver after taking a hit. Shows some agility on the move once he gets going.

                              Negatives: Showed up overweight at the Combine and has a flabby body that looks like it has not seen a weight room. Relies too much on his arm and natural ability and does not like to work. Has a lackadaisical approach to the game, nearly lost his job in a competition prior to his junior season and needs to take the game more seriously. Struggled to put points on the board vs. the speed of Auburn’s and Florida’s defenses, and when he is forced to make quick reads, he struggles. Does not find second and third receivers as fast as he has too. Does not have a consistent throwing motion, and the ball tends to come out at different places every time. Does not protect the football well. Does not show great timing or anticipation. Telegraphs his passes and rarely looks off the high safety (see Florida game). Will require very tough coaching from a strong, authoritative figure, or he will get away with everything he can and may never develop. Acts as if he has made it already and does not realize how far he has to go.

                              Summary: Has as much potential as any quarterback to enter the draft, but the team that drafts him better have an experienced and patient veteran coaching staff in place to provide the tough coaching he will need to develop. For as much upside as he has — and it’s off the charts — his downside is just as great, and he could be out of the league just as fast as he is in the Pro Bowl. A very high-risk, high-reward pick, Russell is the type of player who could lose his motivation after a big payday. Whoever drafts him better make sure they properly evaluate his mental makeup and character, or they could set back their franchise at least three years. Strikingly similar to Vikings 1999 11th overall draft pick and current Dolphins QB Daunte Culpepper, whose only success has come under the demanding Scott Linehan, but Russell is not as athletic nor does he have Culpepper’s scrambling ability.
                              JaMarcus Russell scouting report... accurate or racially motivated?
                              Originally posted by Scott Wright
                              I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
                              Originally posted by PossibleCabbage
                              I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
                              Originally posted by bearsfan_51
                              iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
                              Originally posted by GatorsBullsFan
                              I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
                              Originally posted by GoRavens
                              Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

                              Comment


                              • THat's fine BB. But notice Nawrocki presented a rationale as to why he felt Clausen had a 'sense of entitlement, whether I agree or not.
                                People can say whatever they want, but at least present the skeleton of an argument and not make wildly general declarations from on high.

                                BTW I never said Nawrocki's write-up on Cam was racially motivated. That was Warren Moon.

                                IMO Nawrocki was much kinder to Russell in discussing his negatives than he was with Newton, and their intangibles aren't even close.

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