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Should all BCS conferences have 12 teams and a conferance championship game?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
    Has a single Weis recruit graduated yet?
    No?

    So you think I should look at Willingham's graduation rates with academic standards intact to gauge how well Weis is doing?

    Makes perfect sense to me.
    yes, all early entries of that recruiting class(weis first) actually graduated early.
    Please, if you try and be a smartass at least be right


    Saints 2014 draft wish list:
    - No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
    - Corner or Wideout in the first
    - No reaching
    - No Kelvin Benjamin

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Smokey Joe View Post
      I think it is silly not to have the BCS conferences with 12 teams and a championship game. They are playing for an automatic bid into one of the top 4 bowl games, so shouldn't they have to really earn it? Also, with non BCS conferences expanding at a good rate, it might be wise to move some of the best teams out into BCS conferences.
      The Pac-10's model of playing a round robin is the closest thing we have in college football to determining a true conference champion. Teams in the SEC and Big-12 miss out on 3 conference opponents every year. While Missouri will miss playing Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Texas A&M this year, every team in the Pac-10 will have to face each other in order to win the conference.

      I mean, how in the hell can Iowa St. even be given credit for playing in the Big-12 when they don't play Texas, Oklahoma or Texas Tech this year? How is it not preferable that all teams play each other every season?

      All we'll hear all year long is about how the SEC just beats up on each other and it's the toughest conference in America. Yet in reality, we'll see a great Florida team miss out on Alabama, Auburn and Ole Miss! Really? So they can play Charleston Southern, Troy and Florida International? Even if they win the SEC championship game against one of those 3, they still missed out on the other two. But people will act like their undefeated season is more impressive than an undefeated season from an SC or an Oregon. And who earned what again?

      In short, what's the point of having 12 teams in your conference if many of them won't even play each other? All that does is create an unequal playing field which results in false standings.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by YAYareaRB View Post
        I would rather see BYU and Utah in the Big XII but they already have 12 teams so bleh!
        Kick out ISU and KSU. No one would notice or likely even care.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
          I'd be thrilled to see Notre Dame join the Big Ten, but they make money hand over fist staying Independent, so they will continue playing soft schedules year in and year out and getting into bowls they usually do not deserve to play in and lose since do not have to split the money they receive with the rest of a conference in addition to their bloated TV contract.

          Notre Dame might want to consider putting the Almighty Dollar opposite Touchdown Jesus.
          Wonderbredd24 nailed it here. Notre Dame will remain indy simply b/c they won't have to share bowl $ & can continue to beat Navy every season -- what was it, 45 straight Ws over the Middies? c'mon -- & dodge Big 10 powerhouses like Ohio St.

          The Golden Dome & their gold helmets are golden for a reason in South Bend, IN. Now that Weis lowered their academic standards they have truly morphed into a Temple of Mammon instead of the Jesuit institution of moral Christian higher education they used to be -- hell, I remember when they had a policy of not accepting bowl invitations way back in the day. What other single Div. 1 program had its own exclusive TV network game broadcasting contract, geez?

          Their recent downfall has tasted delicious, Weis is proving that not all former NFL guys can achieve success returning to college Div. 1 like Saban & Carroll. If their o-line doesn't improve dramatically & protect Clausen or they don't win at least 8 games with their wussy schedule this yr. they will be howling for Weis' head, he's had his chances but the program declined, not improved under his regime, no more #1-ranked national recruiting classes = more hard times for the Irish.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by duckseason View Post
            The Pac-10's model of playing a round robin is the closest thing we have in college football to determining a true conference champion. Teams in the SEC and Big-12 miss out on 3 conference opponents every year. While Missouri will miss playing Oklahoma, Texas Tech and Texas A&M this year, every team in the Pac-10 will have to face each other in order to win the conference.

            I mean, how in the hell can Iowa St. even be given credit for playing in the Big-12 when they don't play Texas, Oklahoma or Texas Tech this year? How is it not preferable that all teams play each other every season?

            All we'll hear all year long is about how the SEC just beats up on each other and it's the toughest conference in America. Yet in reality, we'll see a great Florida team miss out on Alabama, Auburn and Ole Miss! Really? So they can play Charleston Southern, Troy and Florida International? Even if they win the SEC championship game against one of those 3, they still missed out on the other two. But people will act like their undefeated season is more impressive than an undefeated season from an SC or an Oregon. And who earned what again?

            In short, what's the point of having 12 teams in your conference if many of them won't even play each other? All that does is create an unequal playing field which results in false standings.
            By many, you mean 3. Also, with a conference championship, it leaves you with the chance of facing 1 of the 3. If you luck out and get an easier schedule, good for you. You still face the other 5 teams in your division. You win your division, you go to the conference championship game. You mention Iowa St. not facing Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas Tech. Well, if Iowa St. didn't suck and won their division, they would eventually still face them.

            Plus, I think it's a lot tougher to kick out teams from a BCS conference than it is to add.

            ^Thanks to Eaglez.Fan for the sweet sig!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by LizardState View Post
              Wonderbredd24 nailed it here. Notre Dame will remain indy simply b/c they won't have to share bowl $ & can continue to beat Navy every season -- what was it, 45 straight Ws over the Middies? c'mon -- & dodge Big 10 powerhouses like Ohio St.

              The Golden Dome & their gold helmets are golden for a reason in South Bend, IN. Now that Weis lowered their academic standards they have truly morphed into a Temple of Mammon instead of the Jesuit institution of moral Christian higher education they used to be -- hell, I remember when they had a policy of not accepting bowl invitations way back in the day. What other single Div. 1 program had its own exclusive TV network game broadcasting contract, geez?

              Their recent downfall has tasted delicious, Weis is proving that not all former NFL guys can achieve success returning to college Div. 1 like Saban & Carroll. If their o-line doesn't improve dramatically & protect Clausen or they don't win at least 8 games with their wussy schedule this yr. they will be howling for Weis' head, he's had his chances but the program declined, not improved under his regime, no more #1-ranked national recruiting classes = more hard times for the Irish.
              I'd put in a new rule where teams in D-I FBS football can only be independent is if they are making the transition into FBS from FCS or a part of the armed forces.

              ^Thanks to Eaglez.Fan for the sweet sig!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Smokey Joe View Post
                By many, you mean 3.
                No, I really don't. I mean 18. 3 each = 18 instances in all.

                Originally posted by Smokey Joe View Post
                Also, with a conference championship, it leaves you with the chance of facing 1 of the 3.
                I mentioned that in my post.

                Originally posted by duckseason View Post
                Even if they win the SEC championship game against one of those 3, they still missed out on the other two.
                Originally posted by Smokey Joe View Post
                If you luck out and get an easier schedule, good for you. You still face the other 5 teams in your division. You win your division, you go to the conference championship game.
                No. You're missing my point. If two teams from the same division play drastically different schedules, the team with the easier schedule has a tremendous advantage in winning that division.

                Originally posted by Smokey Joe View Post
                You mention Iowa St. not facing Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas Tech. Well, if Iowa St. didn't suck and won their division, they would eventually still face them.
                No, if they won their division they might face one of the three. It has nothing to do with them sucking or not. This happens with solid teams just as often.

                The bottom line is that the way the SEC and Big-12 are set up creates an uneven playing field and can't help but produce inaccurate division champions from time to time. There is no disputing that.

                A round robin format is indisputably more accurate in producing a conference champion.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Brent View Post
                  I've been saying that for so long, but no one here agrees.
                  that's because the Pac10 gets downgraded because the teams in it aren't that good.....not because "they beat each other up".

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by HindSight View Post
                    that's because the Pac10 gets downgraded because the teams in it aren't that good.....not because "they beat each other up".
                    In reality, the Pac-10 does beat up on itself more than any other conference. The result of which is a false perception of inferiority to those who only look at rankings and records as their gauge of how good teams are. You won't see us with as many bowl eligible teams not only because we have less teams, but because we have more losses built into our schedule than conferences that don't play each other as much. In addition to the tougher league schedule, the Pac-10 as a whole has been playing the toughest non-conference slate for several years now. And that really hasn't been close.

                    It's also important to note the disproportionate amount of votes allocated to conferences for the coaches poll, which also contributes to a false perception of Pac-10 inferiority. As does the current state of TV contracts.

                    Any conference that went 5-0 this past bowl season ought not be labeled as "not that good."

                    Any person that wants to compare a 10 team conference to a 12 team conference ought to account for the disparity.

                    People love to point to all the talent the SEC sends to the NFL as evidence of superiority- and with good reason. But are they aware that the Pac-10 had more players drafted per team this past season than the Big12, Big10, or the great SEC itself?

                    Pac10 = 3.20
                    SEC = 3.08
                    Big10 = 2.55
                    Big12 = 2.33

                    I'm not saying the Pac-10 is the best conference, but there's no way in hell it should be classified as "not that good" by anybody who knows what they're talking about.

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                    • #25
                      Oh......right....east coast bias.

                      On any given year the Pac-10 has a top 3 team in USC.....a pretty good team that is either Cal, Oregon, ASU, or a surprise team......a couple of average teams from that list combined with Oregon St and UCLA.......and then the sucktacular Washington teams, Stanford, and Arizona.

                      That happens every year. That's 1 awesome team, 1 pretty good team, 4 average teams, and 4 awful teams.

                      Having quality players that go to the NFL doesn't necessarily mean the teams as a whole are any good. Neither do bowl records....especially considering the following opponents: Penn State, Pitt, OK St, Miami, & BYU.

                      "Beating up on each other" is a cop out. My friends used that excuse when people started bashing the Big 10. It means we aren't that good.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by HindSight View Post
                        Oh......right....east coast bias.

                        On any given year the Pac-10 has a top 3 team in USC.....a pretty good team that is either Cal, Oregon, ASU, or a surprise team......a couple of average teams from that list combined with Oregon St and UCLA.......and then the sucktacular Washington teams, Stanford, and Arizona.

                        That happens every year. That's 1 awesome team, 1 pretty good team, 4 average teams, and 4 awful teams.

                        Having quality players that go to the NFL doesn't necessarily mean the teams as a whole are any good. Neither do bowl records....especially considering the following opponents: Penn State, Pitt, OK St, Miami, & BYU.

                        "Beating up on each other" is a cop out. My friends used that excuse when people started bashing the Big 10. It means we aren't that good.
                        That is actually a pretty good list of bowl opponents.

                        I think the Pac 10 does a lot of things right. Everyone plays each other and they schedule non gimmes ooc. I'm not sure if it east coast bias but I'd say they are better than they are perceived.

                        Why would having players go to the nfl not correlate with having good teams? Although, just going by one year of data seems like cherry picking.

                        Anyone his original point still stands. A 10 team round robin is the most fair system, but it does put USC at a considerable disadvantage. They do not get a conference championship game to make up for a previous loss.

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                        • #27
                          duckseason has an extremely valid point as always.

                          And like in my previous post, the more I think about it the less I see the PAC 10 expanding anytime soon. They have a formula that works and they make money off of it. They have one of the most marketable programs in the country in USC, another extremely marketable basketball team in UCLA, and have decent enough parity to consistently get 4-6 teams in bowl games each year.

                          If any conferences were going to expand it's more than likely to be the BIG 10 and Big East. While the BIG 10 commish seems to squash any talk of expansion it would enhance the conference. They would be able to play longer into the season, be able to capitalize on a conference championship game, and bring more exposure into the already well-known conference.

                          With the Big East, they were built for basketball as their a super basketball conference, however, and like I've previously stated, there is talk amongst the non-football schools about forming their own conference. The Big East knows that it's money is made with football so in order for them to gain more popularity I'm sure they would look to expansion.
                          If I was them I'd try to woo Boston College back, it just makes sense geographically for them to be in the Big East. If BC doesn't want to come back then an obvious choice would be Memphis. Bringing in the Tigers brings an up-and-coming football team plus a basketball program that has really built it's reputation over the past decade.
                          East Carolina is another school that meshes well geographically. They usually have a solid football program, make a bowl game seemingly every other year, and can produce some NFL quality players. Memhpis & ECU make 10 members.
                          Then you have UCF. A natural rival for USF and a program on the rise, same with FAU.
                          The last Big East team would be tough. There's NIU, Army and Navy which would have to be football only schools, Marshall, Southern Miss, Notre Dame, Tulsa, Bowling Green, etc... All of those programs have a drawback.

                          Beastly sig by BoneKrusher

                          Super Bowl XLIV Champions
                          WHO DAT!

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                          • #28
                            I never understood why so many people, when splitting the Big 10 in two, go East-West. The East, based on history, would dominate the West almost every year. A more balanced North-South seems a better idea to me;

                            North:
                            Iowa
                            Michigan
                            Michigan State
                            Minnesota
                            Northwestern
                            Wisconsin

                            South:
                            Illinois
                            Indiana
                            Ohio State
                            Penn State
                            Purdue
                            Notre Dame/Pittsburgh/Rutgers/Syracuse


                            Sig by Matthew Jones

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cigaro View Post
                              I never understood why so many people, when splitting the Big 10 in two, go East-West. The East, based on history, would dominate the West almost every year. A more balanced North-South seems a better idea to me;

                              North:
                              Iowa
                              Michigan
                              Michigan State
                              Minnesota
                              Northwestern
                              Wisconsin

                              South:
                              Illinois
                              Indiana
                              Ohio State
                              Penn State
                              Purdue
                              Notre Dame/Pittsburgh/Rutgers/Syracuse
                              I've always done North/South when splitting the Big 10. It makes more sense.

                              Beastly sig by BoneKrusher

                              Super Bowl XLIV Champions
                              WHO DAT!

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                              • #30
                                So does anyone think the Pac-10 is superior to the SEC?


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