The Conference Expansion Thread

[Smokey Joe]

You are being naive if you don't think religion plays a factor. The main reason why Baylor didn't get an invite to the Pac-16 wasn't because they sucked, but rather all the california schools were against adding a christian university. Given that the casual fan doesn't even know that Baylor is a christian university, what chance do schools like TCU and BYU have when their names clearly give it away?

Not starting a political debate but rather stating the truth, most universities (especially out west in cali and in the east) are more left leaning. TCU and BYU have a shot in the Big XII because of the teams that make up the conference are in more conservative states and they already have 1 christian university, but otherwise, most power conferences will shy away because of their name and affiliation.

Notre Dame gets an exemption because they are freaking Notre Dame.

[LizardState]

The Big 12 as it was formerly known got a stay of execution, next offseason I think all this will start up again, Texas will be wooed by everyone with millions thrown around, then it's all over for the Big 12 who will be left with only Kansas, Kansas St., Iowa St. & Baylor & their remaining options will be Conference USA, Mtn. West & the WAC.

Notre Dame gets an exemption because they are freaking Notre Dame.

Yes ND will always be exceptional b/c of its rep. The Pac 11, really hard to get used to that name, pulled off the coup this offseaon by landing Colorado. Despite their Jesuit origins & indy tradition ND will be the next to join a conference, the misnomered Big 10 in this case, after they throw gazillions at them & then divide into East & West divisions.

[diabsoule]

The Big XII still stands. After the smoke cleared and the dust settled the conference is still intact after flirtation with the Pac10 by Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas Tech. The super conference talk is dead (for now) but is sure to resurface soon as the settlement made to keep the Big XII together resembles that of a shaky armistice.

The University of Texas and its minion Oklahoma made off like the school yard bully who threatens to beat you up unless you give him your lunch money. With those two universities, along with Texas A&M, splitting the payout from Colorado and Nebraska leaving the conference it just creates even more disparity within the conference. The seemingly passive attitude of Dan Beebe, Big XII commissioner, reflects more as the image of Neville Chamberlain than that of a strong, commanding, powerful leader that is needing during times of crisis.

When looking at winners and losers of the latest round of conference realignment the Big XII is clearly one of the losers when considering that rival conferences are all stronger despite what Dan Beebe says to the contrary. The Big 10 and Pac10 are winners since they expanded to twelve teams with each conference now having the capability of playing a conference championship game, which both will do due to how much money each conference will make because of one. The SEC won by not having to expand. Now the Big XII founds themselves in the position the Big 10 and Pac10 were in up until recently: finding themselves irrelevant while other conferences play on. While some may argue that the Big 10 and Pac10 were able to maintain relevance while being at only ten teams then explain why Joe Paterno has been lobbying for a twelfth team to be added for years.

The Big XII has been the most snake-bit league when it comes to championship games so it is understandable why they celebrate the fact they no longer have one but now they find themselves in the same utterance as the Big East as the only two conferences to not play a conference championship game. By staying put at ten teams, it also gives either Texas or Oklahoma a clear path to being conference champions. Nebraska was the only tough road game either team had and with the Cornhuskers moving to the Big 10 the way is now paved of gold. Texas and Oklahoma play on a neutral site with the only semi-tough road games either team will face is Texas A&M for Texas (Lone State Showdown) and Oklahoma State for Oklahoma (Bedlam Series).

There are ways to combat the inevitable irrelevance the conference may find itself in after the last week of November. The first is to move the Texas/Oklahoma game from early October to the last game of the year. Pitting the two biggest schools in the Big XII against each other at that time would put the winner still fresh in the minds of the voters who create the polls. It would also be one of the most highly watched games on television.

The second way is to do something Dan Beebe has said the conference will not do: EXPAND. The idea of not wanting to expand the Big XII is to kowtow to Texas because beefing the conference back up to twelve teams would cut into the Longhorns payout. Sometimes sacrifice is needed in order to maintain competitiveness especially in the cutthroat world of college football. If Texas is to be the big dog in the Big XII then create an all-Texas division. Invite two former Southwest Conference members in TCU and Houston and put them in the same division as Texas. Those two members bring a rising, tough program in football (TCU) and a school with a great basketball tradition whose athletic programs are on the rise (Houston). Divisions would break down as such:

Texas Division: Baylor, Houston, Texas, Texas A&M, TCU, Texas Tech

North Division: Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

The case could be made of inviting BYU but some issues stand in their way. The biggest issue is that the university refuses to play sports on Sundays. It will be a longer trip for parents and players to travel to Provo than it was to travel to Boulder, Colorado. Finally, added Houston would appease the parents of the athletes in that they could travel within their own state to see their child compete than to travel outside of the state. Finally, by adding Houston and TCU it would create a distinct Texas feel to the conference which is what the old Southwest Conference had.

Those two ideas are the best that are out there for the Big XII. If they want to make a move then they should make one soon. If they do not then the league will see itself fall apart in the years to come as Texas will continue to push for money or some other Big XII team starts looking at greener pastures for a more even payout just like Nebraska did.

[Smokey Joe]

While that idea is good on paper, it just wouldn't work.

First off, the number 1 deciding factor in conference expansion is how much more money are you going to bring in with said team. And how do you get that money? With TV Market and fan base. I don't see how Houston and TCU add to that with the juggernaut Texas and also Texas A&M occupying the state. And even then, TCU and Houston don't have all that large of fan bases to begin with.

Also, the Texas Division looks like fun, but odds are it would hurt recruiting. One of the biggest advantages of playing big time college football is being able to visit new places and go to different states and such. However, in this Texas Division, you are talking about at least 8 or 9 games in the state of Texas every year. And while it seems like it could be fun and would be nice for parents, it could also get boring. Other schools can offer an athlete the chance to travel around the country to 5 or 6 different states every year. While the major texas schools can offer a lot of texas and 2 or 3 games in different states.

I just don't see it working. But you definitely need to split up OU and Texas.

[Cigaro]

I don't know how the Big XII is set up, but if it's like the SEC, if there really is this bad blood between Baylor and TCU, regardless of what TCU wants, couldn't Baylor cockblock them?

[diabsoule]

While that idea is good on paper, it just wouldn't work.

First off, the number 1 deciding factor in conference expansion is how much more money are you going to bring in with said team. And how do you get that money? With TV Market and fan base. I don't see how Houston and TCU add to that with the juggernaut Texas and also Texas A&M occupying the state. And even then, TCU and Houston don't have all that large of fan bases to begin with.

Also, the Texas Division looks like fun, but odds are it would hurt recruiting. One of the biggest advantages of playing big time college football is being able to visit new places and go to different states and such. However, in this Texas Division, you are talking about at least 8 or 9 games in the state of Texas every year. And while it seems like it could be fun and would be nice for parents, it could also get boring. Other schools can offer an athlete the chance to travel around the country to 5 or 6 different states every year. While the major texas schools can offer a lot of texas and 2 or 3 games in different states.

I just don't see it working. But you definitely need to split up OU and Texas.

It worked in the old Southwest Conference which lasted for 82 years before folding due to scandal and recruiting violations. When that conference was alive there was only one non-Texas team and that was Arkansas. Here you have four other states joining (Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa). While you are not adding much of a recruiting base or expanding tv markets, you are adding competition which leads to tv viewers. Colorado and Nebraska are not hot beds for recruiting and who would the Big XII looks to add outside of schools already in that conferences footprint? New Mexico? Utah (BYU)? They really do not have many options and Houston and TCU provide some of the best competition in basketball and football and would fit into what worked for them for over eight decades.

I don't know how the Big XII is set up, but if it's like the SEC, if there really is this bad blood between Baylor and TCU, regardless of what TCU wants, couldn't Baylor cockblock them?

Yes, Baylor could but would they? It's conceivable but why would they? Adding TCU would only help the Big XII. If the political connections behind Baylor are that dumb as to block one of the best non-BCS schools from joining then the Big XII deserves to be on the back burner of BCS conferences.

[Brent]

You are being naive if you don't think religion plays a factor. The main reason why Baylor didn't get an invite to the Pac-16 wasn't because they sucked, but rather all the california schools were against adding a christian university. Given that the casual fan doesn't even know that Baylor is a christian university, what chance do schools like TCU and BYU have when their names clearly give it away?

Do you have any idea how conservative Texas A&M is? They got an invite.

TCU is barely religious at this point. Yes, they have a seminary school, but tons of people attend TCU because it's a nice school, not because it's religious. TCU (as well as SMU) are hardly heavily religious any more, it's more in name than in practice.

[Smokey Joe]

Do you have any idea how conservative Texas A&M is? They got an invite.

TCU is barely religious at this point. Yes, they have a seminary school, but tons of people attend TCU because it's a nice school, not because it's religious. TCU (as well as SMU) are hardly heavily religious any more, it's more in name than in practice.

Texas A&M isn't a private christian school though. And even if they were a christian-private school, you wouldn't know it by their name, and they would bring quite a rather large fanbase that would negate any christian affiliations in the eyes of the California schools.

And I know TCU isn't religious, most private-christian schools aren't anymore (Notre Dame is about Catholic as a chicago public school). However, they still have the connection to the religion and their names, which is a huge turnoff for a lot of the more liberal universities.

It really has nothing with the private-christian schools being conservative or not (I would hardly call ND conservative at all, not sure about TCU, but they are in Texas, and we all know about BYU), its the association with religion that turns off liberal universities.

Like I stated with ND, it really doesn't matter, they can join whatever conference they want to. But otherwise, most private-christian schools will have a tough time getting invites to major conferences, no matter how good they are. BYU and TCU have a shot with the Big XII because it is Texas and they already have 1 Private-Christian university. However, they have no chance with the Pac-12 because of the California schools. And those are really the only major conferences that would have any interest in TCU or BYU, except maybe the Big East would think about adding TCU, but that is quite a geographical stretch.

[Smokey Joe]

It worked in the old Southwest Conference which lasted for 82 years before folding due to scandal and recruiting violations. When that conference was alive there was only one non-Texas team and that was Arkansas. Here you have four other states joining (Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Iowa). While you are not adding much of a recruiting base or expanding tv markets, you are adding competition which leads to tv viewers. Colorado and Nebraska are not hot beds for recruiting and who would the Big XII looks to add outside of schools already in that conferences footprint? New Mexico? Utah (BYU)? They really do not have many options and Houston and TCU provide some of the best competition in basketball and football and would fit into what worked for them for over eight decades.

To be honest, the most likely scenario I see is the Big 12 dissolving into the Pac-12, SEC, and maybe the Big 10 (even though I think they are more likely to add ND and a Big East School, unless they somehow get Texas).

However, instead of super conferences of 16, I hope they are of 14 instead. 16 team conferences would be just too much, IMO, and hopefully the NCAA can step in and prevent schools from having more than 14 teams for football conferences. 4 16 team super-conferences would have just too much power and those 4 conferences would completely take over college football and all the money as well. 14 team power conferences could work though without completely screwing over the mid-majors though.

The Big 10 would likely begin the conference expansion talk again, and they add ND and Rutgers.

Then the Pac-12 and SEC would want to match the Big 10 and lets say Texas and Oklahoma leave to the Pac-12 and Texas A&M and Florida St or perhaps WVU. to the SEC. I could see that working out good for both conferences as they will both get a share of the Texas A&M-Texas game.

Without Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma, the Big 12 is dead. I could see the formation of a new conference with the 7 left overs, and 5 more schools added, taking the best from the MWC, WAC, MAC, Sunbelt, and C-USA.

This would be more beneficial for the majors teams in the MWC because they get into a power conference without having the lesser schools like Wyoming drag them down. This new conference would consist of:

Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Houston
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Iowa St.
BYU
Boise St.
Missouri

and 1 more team from the list of: Cincinnati, Air Force, New Mexico, Colorado St., Fresno St., San Diego St., Nevada, UNLV, LA Tech, NIU, CMU, Tulsa, Hawaii, Memphis, Southern Miss, Louisville, ECU, USF, or UCF. For now, lets say Air Force or Colorado St. because they both would connect BYU and Boise St. to the rest conference. Most of the other schools I listed are a pretty decent stretch geographically. Hell, you could even expand this conference to 14 as well, if you wanted to. But lets leave it at 12 for now.

The only big losers in this situation would be the Big East because there really aren't any scenarios in which they could gain. However, I think the Big East and ACC should join forces to create their own 14 team power conference. As it stands right now, they are both hurting in ratings, get their dicks handed to them by the MWC. I think the ACC and Big East can improve their ratings and status as a power conferences if they joined forces. The Big East just lacks in football for several reasons, and the ACC is little bro to the SEC and the SEC gets all the attention.

If you combined them, the ACC loses the little bro effect, and the Big East becomes a much better national power because the conference up and down is just better:


New Big East:
Clemson
Boston College
Maryland
Georgia Tech
Miami, FL
North Carolina
Duke
Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh
WVU

And 4 More OF:
Syracuse
Connecticut
North Carolina St.
Wake Forest
Virginia
UCF
ECU

(Lousiville and Cincinnati aren't far enough east)

[Shane P. Hallam]

To be honest, the most likely scenario I see is the Big 12 dissolving into the Pac-12, SEC, and maybe the Big 10 (even though I think they are more likely to add ND and a Big East School, unless they somehow get Texas).

However, instead of super conferences of 16, I hope they are of 14 instead. 16 team conferences would be just too much, IMO, and hopefully the NCAA can step in and prevent schools from having more than 14 teams for football conferences. 4 16 team super-conferences would have just too much power and those 4 conferences would completely take over college football and all the money as well. 14 team power conferences could work though without completely screwing over the mid-majors though.

The Big 10 would likely begin the conference expansion talk again, and they add ND and Rutgers.

Then the Pac-12 and SEC would want to match the Big 10 and lets say Texas and Oklahoma leave to the Pac-12 and Texas A&M and Florida St or perhaps WVU. to the SEC. I could see that working out good for both conferences as they will both get a share of the Texas A&M-Texas game.

Without Texas, Texas A&M, and Oklahoma, the Big 12 is dead. I could see the formation of a new conference with the 7 left overs, and 5 more schools added, taking the best from the MWC, WAC, MAC, Sunbelt, and C-USA.

This would be more beneficial for the majors teams in the MWC because they get into a power conference without having the lesser schools like Wyoming drag them down. This new conference would consist of:

Texas Tech
Baylor
TCU
Houston
Oklahoma St.
Kansas
Kansas St.
Iowa St.
BYU
Boise St.
Missouri

and 1 more team from the list of: Cincinnati, Air Force, New Mexico, Colorado St., Fresno St., San Diego St., Nevada, UNLV, LA Tech, NIU, CMU, Tulsa, Hawaii, Memphis, Southern Miss, Louisville, ECU, USF, or UCF. For now, lets say Air Force or Colorado St. because they both would connect BYU and Boise St. to the rest conference. Most of the other schools I listed are a pretty decent stretch geographically. Hell, you could even expand this conference to 14 as well, if you wanted to. But lets leave it at 12 for now.

The only big losers in this situation would be the Big East because there really aren't any scenarios in which they could gain. However, I think the Big East and ACC should join forces to create their own 14 team power conference. As it stands right now, they are both hurting in ratings, get their dicks handed to them by the MWC. I think the ACC and Big East can improve their ratings and status as a power conferences if they joined forces. The Big East just lacks in football for several reasons, and the ACC is little bro to the SEC and the SEC gets all the attention.

If you combined them, the ACC loses the little bro effect, and the Big East becomes a much better national power because the conference up and down is just better:


New Big East:
Clemson
Boston College
Maryland
Georgia Tech
Miami, FL
North Carolina
Duke
Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh
WVU

And 4 More OF:
Syracuse
Connecticut
North Carolina St.
Wake Forest
Virginia
UCF
ECU

(Lousiville and Cincinnati aren't far enough east)

Need to think of basketball as well, Big East won't give up Georgetown and Villanova and all of those schools which makes this all unlike.y

[Smokey Joe]

Need to think of basketball as well, Big East won't give up Georgetown and Villanova and all of those schools which makes this all unlike.y

I was hoping the catholic basketball schools would leave and form their own non-football, christian athletic conference.

[LizardState]

Texas Division: Baylor, Houston, Texas, Texas A&M, TCU, Texas Tech

Glad to see diabsoule too was reminded of the old Southwest Conference, the quoted list above sure reminds me of it too. All it needs is the SMU Mustangs....

Interesting that the SW Conference was disbanded b/c it was so corrupt, see the SMU Death Penalty from the NCAA if your memory needs refreshing. And SMU is a Christian religious school too btw, didn't stop them from paying Eric Dickerson lots of $ when he played there, & when their school President (who was later Governor of Texas) was caught denying paying players when they obviously were even while on probation, he said "But there wasnt a Bible in the room..." True story from 1987.

Given the blatant greed being exhibited by the schools in the ongoing conference reshuffle it makes the old SW Conference look like Sunday School Bible Camp.

[diabsoule]

Need to think of basketball as well, Big East won't give up Georgetown and Villanova and all of those schools which makes this all unlike.y

There are rumors out there that the basketball only schools of the Big East are contemplating a split from the football schools of the conference. If that were to happen I think it would be beneficial for both sides as it would open up avenues of expansion that would help both conferences.

[LizardState]

Building a 12 Pac

Good article on the new & improved Pac 10.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports-he...nclick_check=1

Utah begins play in the Pac 12 in 2011, Colorado has to wait for 2012. Biggest issue is how to divide into 2 divisions of 6 teams each, maybe for fb only. This article illuminates the previously obscure issue of the recruiting magnet of LA, & how the schools distant from SoCal want to remain tied there.

[derza222]

There are rumors out there that the basketball only schools of the Big East are contemplating a split from the football schools of the conference. If that were to happen I think it would be beneficial for both sides as it would open up avenues of expansion that would help both conferences.

I really hope this doesn't happen as I think it would really hurt basketball recruiting since the conference would basically become a mid-major conference, but it's a really realistic possibility. The Big East has approached Villanova about becoming a football school ('Nova's football program won the FCS national championship last year and beat Temple who finished 9-4 last year, they're a solid team) but administration doesn't want to. Apparently they're not big on athletics and don't see the obvious connection between sports and interest in the school, or that the basketball team would probably suffer if forced to join a Catholic schools league.

It's actually in Villanova's best interest to make the move up to FBS as they can end up in one of the bigger conferences during expansion, but it's a move they won't make. Other teams (St. Johns, Georgetown, Providence, Seton Hall, I'm sure there are more in the Big East but that's all I've got off the top of my head) don't have the same option since their football programs are non-existant or not competitive enough to make the move up to FBS, so the Catholic league would be alright for them but still worse than being in a major conference. Better competition and TV deals help get players noticed by the pros and that's the best way to recruit.