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  • #16
    Originally posted by BeerBaron View Post
    Yes, there absolutely are kids who are great at football AND want the full educational experience...but for most of the kids it seems, especially the stars who are basically just playing for free hoping not to get hurt until they cash in for real, the schooling is a joke. Take the minimum credits and easiest courses you can for 2.5 years, then jump to the NFL.
    The NCAA are not babysitters. These "kids" are actually adults who are quite capable of making their own decisions and taking responsibility for those decisions. If a player doesn't want to take advantage of the phenomenal educational opportunity, that's up to him.

    And as for the money aspect of all this.....even if they are getting the $80,000 you mention in your post TH, the NCAA is raking in Billions with a B riding these kids.
    If the kids don't like it then they can choose not to play NCAA football. No one is forcing them to. The NCAA has every right to make up it's own rules. If the players don't like them then tough. I absolutely will not feel sorry for a 20-year old kid who is receiving up to $50-$80 thousand dollars per year in benefits. They are all being compensated for their "jobs" far better than any college student I know. My company made $76.7 billion last year and they only pay me $14 per hour. That's how life works sometimes. I'm not crying about it.

    I've actually heard before that at Penn State, every single sports program there loses money with the exception of football. Football pays for absolutely everything else and then some.
    Yes, this is true with most schools. However, this is exactly why paying players would never work. Many team use a majority of their football income just to offset all the losses they take on every other sport. If you started paying football players then you would have to pay everyone, due to the existence of Title IX, and that's in no way practical.

    You could say then so be it..."he shouldn't waste that education then" but I have the feeling that most people here have been college students, are college students, or shortly will be college students, and you know damn well they aren't the world's greatest decision makers.
    So it's the NCAA's fault if the student athletes make poor choices? The NCAA should exist to bail out students? If you get hurt and suffer a career ending injury you remain on scholarship and you continue receiving all that money in benefits. It's not the NCAA's responsibility to protect these players from bad decisions.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by P-L View Post
      The NCAA are not babysitters. These "kids" are actually adults who are quite capable of making their own decisions and taking responsibility for those decisions. If a player doesn't want to take advantage of the phenomenal educational opportunity, that's up to him.
      The NCAA provides babysitters in the form of compliance officers. Every campus has them and this is exactly what they are there for and they talk to these kids every day and are available all the time

      Originally posted by P-L View Post
      Yes, this is true with most schools. However, this is exactly why paying players would never work. Many team use a majority of their football income just to offset all the losses they take on every other sport. If you started paying football players then you would have to pay everyone, due to the existence of Title IX, and that's in no way practical.
      Very few schools make money on football. Most schools take a loss on football, but you're 100% right about Title IX

      Originally posted by P-L View Post
      So it's the NCAA's fault if the student athletes make poor choices? The NCAA should exist to bail out students? If you get hurt and suffer a career ending injury you remain on scholarship and you continue receiving all that money in benefits. It's not the NCAA's responsibility to protect these players from bad decisions.
      And yet, the NCAA tries to protect them from bad decisions... the kids know these lifelines are there and choose not to use them.

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      • #18
        If players got paid it wouldn't take long for one guy to say i should be making more money than this guy. Which will lead to players sitting out if they feel they are not getting paid enough. It could never work in college football where there are a lot more players than the NFL.
        Sam Bradford will be a bust- 2/24/2010

        Colts Cardinals Bulls Hurricanes

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        • #19
          He better get Training Now, Declare for the 2011 NFL Draft and Wait.

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          • #20
            So Saban is pretty angry at the Agents for this eh?

            where was he to "speak his mind" when USC or other schools got in trouble for this?

            I guess if you're only at fault if you F*** with Alabama or the SEC.

            I really don't understand some of the coaches mentailities down there (ie. Steve Spurrier complaining about the academic ineligibility rules when one of his players was ruled ineligible for games).

            Man AJ Green made a dumb mistake, if anyone even remote saw him walking anywhere near south beach he is f*** for lying.

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            • #21
              I say let them get endorsement deals if someones willing to give it to them, give them money early so character concerns could be diagnosed earlier on before they get to the NFL so you don't draft a "bust" because the kid can't handle having money that young.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by trkaline View Post
                I say let them get endorsement deals if someones willing to give it to them, give them money early so character concerns could be diagnosed earlier on before they get to the NFL so you don't draft a "bust" because the kid can't handle having money that young.
                Ya it will be great when a college kid holds out if he feels he is not making enough money.
                Sam Bradford will be a bust- 2/24/2010

                Colts Cardinals Bulls Hurricanes

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by njx9
                  well that was a fun non-sequitur that had nothing to do with the original comment. what kind of ******* idiot is going to sit out because he thinks his endorsement deal (which the school would have ****-all to do with) should be bigger?

                  .
                  The same idiots that take 100,000 from agents.
                  Sam Bradford will be a bust- 2/24/2010

                  Colts Cardinals Bulls Hurricanes

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by njx9
                    again, non-sequitur. are you even capable of staying on topic, or is this you're "oh ****, i'm wrong" defense mechanism?
                    Do you lack reading comprehension? Did that part always come back with a 0 on standardized tests? If the players started to get paid just like in the pro's somebody will begin to feel they are worth more than someone else. Let's say they decide to give out a stipend. Who gets what? If you break records or win a lot of games do you get more? What about players who walked on vs scholarships? What about the starting qb vs the starting kicker? What if one player is rather poor and the other player is from a wealthy family? Does academic performance come into play? Do the players who have thier jerseys sold get more? Nobody would ever be satisfied.
                    Last edited by Bob Sanders Dreadlock; 07-23-2010, 10:18 AM.
                    Sam Bradford will be a bust- 2/24/2010

                    Colts Cardinals Bulls Hurricanes

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by njx9
                      well that was a fun non-sequitur that had nothing to do with the original comment. what kind of ******* idiot is going to sit out because he thinks his endorsement deal (which the school would have ****-all to do with) should be bigger?



                      that aside, i don't know why people feel like we need to pay these idiots. what, 1% of ncaa football players (let alone the basketball, baseball, women's basketball, whatever) are even going to make the nfl? so now you want to piss away MORE of my tuition money so that CU can pay its kicker (you know, the guy who was something like 2/14 last year and has less chance of making the nfl than the average 3 year old)? ******* brilliant. let me know when we start paying high school valedictorians to go to various universities to do research. let me know when some of the work students did, which led to the nobel prize for carl wieman and eric cornell, gets them paid. that **** brought in far more money for the school than the football program has in its ENTIRE ******* HISTORY.

                      but like, zomg, three of them will get paid a lot in a couple of years after all of them get a free education and all the free tutoring they need. we should totally start paying all of them thousands of dollars and further cripple an already (mostly) pathetic post-secondary education system.


                      we now return you to the actual, relevant discussion of why marcell dareus may or may not be an absolute idiot for breaking rules that are very clearly laid out by the ncaa.
                      You're pretty much my hero for this post. The arguments by 99% of people thinking college athletes should be paid are probably the least thought out and worst rationalized arguments ever created. They think just because the school makes money, that players should be paid. They either ignore, or are just ignorant to the chain reaction this would cause and how it would affect other programs, let alone the entire student body and school as a whole. But yes, let's remain extremely simplistic and argue that college football players should be paid because athletic programs make a bunch of money (which isn't even the case most of the time). But **** it, ignore laws and regulations, screw schools who barely make any money from athletics/lose money, they should have to pay players and lose even more money. It's only fair to those 80 guys out of tens of thousands plus faculty.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by njx9
                        thanks for playing.
                        It's fun when njx owns bitches.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
                          If kids don't want to go to college, fine, let's give them a professional alternative to go to... if the UFL wants to be that alternative, it would be a huge boost to that league
                          You, sir, are a freaking genius.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by njx9
                            well that was a fun non-sequitur that had nothing to do with the original comment. what kind of ******* idiot is going to sit out because he thinks his endorsement deal (which the school would have ****-all to do with) should be bigger?
                            that aside, i don't know why people feel like we need to pay these idiots. what, 1% of ncaa football players (let alone the basketball, baseball, women's basketball, whatever) are even going to make the nfl? so now you want to piss away MORE of my tuition money so that CU can pay its kicker (you know, the guy who was something like 2/14 last year and has less chance of making the nfl than the average 3 year old)? ******* brilliant. let me know when we start paying high school valedictorians to go to various universities to do research. let me know when some of the work students did, which led to the nobel prize for carl wieman and eric cornell, gets them paid. that **** brought in far more money for the school than the football program has in its ENTIRE ******* HISTORY.
                            but like, zomg, three of them will get paid a lot in a couple of years after all of them get a free education and all the free tutoring they need. we should totally start paying all of them thousands of dollars and further cripple an already (mostly) pathetic post-secondary education system.
                            we now return you to the actual, relevant discussion of why marcell dareus may or may not be an absolute idiot for breaking rules that are very clearly laid out by the ncaa.
                            This is a classic case of need & greed, greed for the agent to get his 2% & a kids not allowed to have almost anything per the draconian NCAA rules, with agents using all manner of conniving means to gain access to top 10 picks who are looking at millions in guaranteed $ as soon as they sign an NFL contract. Clearly this agent had access to a list of what looks like the 2011 top 10 picks invited to his south Florida party & used all manner of conniving, illegal means to access them.

                            The players have to supervised & the programs are obligated to provide deterrents to keep the agents out, just like guarding any other valuable asset with fences, guards, monitors, whatever it takes. Asking a player who grew up poor in the South to maintain his eligibility in the day to day short term by refusing contact with an agent's runner who's offering cars, cash, jewelry, parties with strippers or hookers is like asking a 5-yr-old to wait alone in a room with a chocolate cake for hrs. on end & guard it but not eat any.

                            Yes it would be impractical for 95% of the NCAA programs & the clear majority of the scholarship players to all fill out a W4 form like any other college employee & receive a stipend or salary b/c they're earning $ for he school by playing a sport, but the absurdities of the present situation are just as impractical. I recall an investigation in the 70s where the school testified that all they could legally give a player was 2 meals a day & laundry $ in cash, so the NCAA wanted to know why they didn't distribute the laundry $ in quarters vs. $ bills b/c that's what the washing machines in the athletic dorm used -- absurd enough? Or the defense Oklahoma used for giving the players cash payments to "order pizzas" after hrs. b/c they were restricted to 2 meals per day & players got hungry at night, when the truth as reported in the SI expose' article noted that the Sooner players would order 10+ pizzas every night, they stick a shotgun in the delivery boy's face refusing payment even when the poor delivery boy complained it would come out of his minimum wage salary. That was during the out of control Barry Switzer yrs. at Oklahoma when the starting QB was driving a new Vette & dealing coke out of the glovebox.

                            The current Simon Pure joke system of the student athlete breeds absurd & tragic circumstances like that. Only at the service academies & Stanford (or Notre Dame or Vanderbilt in some past yrs, IDK anymore) where you ride the pine if you don't make your grades in a given semester or qtr. are there student athletes playing FB in the BCS system.

                            So you tell me which system is better or worse.
                            Last edited by LizardState; 07-23-2010, 01:32 PM.

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                            • #29
                              I actually applaud the ncaa for doing somethig that shouldve happened a long time ago. I dont care if anyone likes the rules or not, when you have them you better make sure they are followed


                              Saints 2014 draft wish list:
                              - No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
                              - Corner or Wideout in the first
                              - No reaching
                              - No Kelvin Benjamin

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                              • #30
                                It merits further discussion b.c the current system is clearly disfunctional. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over & over again & expecting different results.

                                I've said it plainly -- the programs are obligated to protect their players from predatory agents, period. Some are doing it & others aren't. Greed with millions at stake found a way to Dareus didn't it?

                                I started the thread so I will speculate on its results: this is specifically devastating to the Bama defense b/c Dareus was expected to provide veteran leadership on a defense that lost so many to graduation & the NFL, he was one of 3 returning. Not going too far out on a limb to predict that it could be the factor that prevents Alabama from repeating as national champion, & I follow my school's storied fb program very closely. Their schedule in the SEC West alone is brutal, Auburn & LSU every yr, + Tennessee every yr. & Florida with Penn St. in back to back September games. The Tide has 5 of the Top 150 recruits coming in but some will redshirt as always, & Florida has more than Bama on what's looking like another formidable but very young Meyer coached Gators team, & LSU is loaded too.

                                As for his draft placement, I think he will be allowed to work out with the team in practice per the appeal but reinstatement for the season is unlikely. The NCAA would have lots of egg on its face if they did that, there is pressure on them to bring the hammer down as I think they will on Austin later if he did accept something as it looks like he did. Dareus was a sure thing for the top 10 in most draft lists for 2011, Kiper & PFW had him in the top 5 at last review, but this could drop him like it did Dez Bryant, also a top 10 or even top 5 player last April who missed 80% of the 09 season & dropped to #24 to Dallas. The crucial factor will be how Dareus answers the questions about this that will be posed by various NFL teams at the next Combine. He might have to give them hs best Come to Jesus speech about how he had contact before he was 3 yrs. away from HS, accepted nothing from him, & signed no agreements to get back into the top 10.

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