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  • #16
    Originally posted by A Perfect Score View Post
    To be fair, toon is a Bears fan and wanted to give you guys Titus Young. We thought a bigger downfield threat would benefit Cutler more even though he isnt quite the system fit Young would be. Also, he's much better value.
    So the guy can get downfield only to turn and see Cutler sacked? No thanks.

    Secondly, Jerry Angelo is still our GM. You know how much stock Jerry puts in the WR position? We currently have a 3rd round pick, 5th round pick, and two converted defensive backs at the position.

    Furthermore, Jerry has a massive hard on for defensive players. And we still have a defensive minded head coach. Smart money puts that first round pick as a DT, especially with Tommie Harris being cut and Anthony Adam's impending free agency leaving us with only Matt Toeiana and Henry Melton at the position.

    With all of that in mind, I will be sincerely shocked if we take a WR in the first round.

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    • #17
      If the Patriots let JJ Watt fall to 16 and don't offer the Jags atleast a 4th to trade spots, I will be mad :(
      **** her in da *****!

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      • #18
        I'll jump in real quick on a few things.

        Falcons - I pushed for the Mike Pouncey pick, but I could certainly see them go in another direction. If they believe Justin Houston can be a capable pass rusher as a DE, then that makes sense for them, and I admittedly didn't ponder Houston too much. I've got a hard time seeing them go Torrey Smith, but I wouldn't rule it out.

        Let's be honest, online IRC mocks, when we near the end, it's sort of, let's get it done. My rationale for the Pouncey pick was that McClure was aging, and Dahl was a FA. Would it be that inconceivable, if they liked Pouncey enough (and I think Pouncey will go in Rd. 1 right now) for them to grab a guy to groom. Off the top, isn't Blalock a FA as well?

        Buccaneers - I feel like Kerrigan will be a good, solid pro player, but I'm not sold his value is top 20 worthy, and I only agreed to Kerrigan later due to ... well, some laziness. I like Kerrigan, so don't get me wrong, this isn't a slam on him, but I wonder if he's being overvalued a bit. As for Clayborn, the thought crossed my mind, but does he have the pass rushing ability, even as a strongside end, to get Dominik and Morris to make that move? That's why I went towards Tyron Smith, out of value and the fact that it's not that inconceivable that they could opt to cut ties from Penn in a couple years to save some money.

        Bears - I'll defend this pick somewhat, although it wasn't my first choice. First off, OL value was iffy. Are they going to jump on Ijalana? To do that, they have to feel comfortable that Ijalana will be better than Webb or Omiyale next year, and I'm not sold as of now. Not impossible, but I am not sold they go OL UNLESS they believe said player can not only step in now ... but can also be an upgrade. I pondered DT a long time there, but the value was gone. Nevis, much as I like him, in the first, would surprise me. Paea doesn't really fit the need for a 3-technique.

        So my first comment, BB, is who at those two positions do you go with? There simply weren't many options the way the mock shook out. My preference is to go DT ... but Nevis or Paea? Not sure I can buy that. Furthermore, there's been more than idle speculation that the Bears may view J'Marcus Webb as their LT of the future. I am worried about that, in all honesty, as I'm not sure I see it, but there's been chatter there.

        As for WR, well, let's face it, barring a surprise, the Bears aren't going to address that in FA. What was the wide receiving core missing this year? Don't focus just on the speed - they were missing a big downfield threat, the role that Aromashodu was supposed to fill. I can definitely see them drafting a bigger, downfield target to open things up underneath. There is a school of thought that Knox is better served going deep, as his inability to run solid underneath routes caused the QB enough problems this year, but it wouldn't address the need for a jump ball type target.

        That said, it's the rare situation where Martz agrees to a WR that doesn't fit his desire for guys that are quick in and out of cuts, and hence why my first WR thought actually went to Titus Young, and Randall Cobb also crossed my mind.

        Ideally, the Bears would find a way to move out, if the draft fell this way.

        ______

        I'm not saying these picks are perfect, btw, as I can see the arguments against, and there were some I disagreed with (starting with the first one), but I think we gave enough thought to the picks that there is some level of defense for them.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by BeerBaron View Post
          So the guy can get downfield only to turn and see Cutler sacked? No thanks.

          Secondly, Jerry Angelo is still our GM. You know how much stock Jerry puts in the WR position? We currently have a 3rd round pick, 5th round pick, and two converted defensive backs at the position.

          Furthermore, Jerry has a massive hard on for defensive players. And we still have a defensive minded head coach. Smart money puts that first round pick as a DT, especially with Tommie Harris being cut and Anthony Adam's impending free agency leaving us with only Matt Toeiana and Henry Melton at the position.

          With all of that in mind, I will be sincerely shocked if we take a WR in the first round.
          Read my comment below - which OT or DT are you taking? Heck, which OG? Watkins? Don't see the Bears doing that. Wisnewski? Not sold on that either.

          One more comment - The reason the Bears didn't pursue a WR early the last few years is that they believed that Hester was going to be that guy, but they came to the conclusion this year that wasn't going to happen.
          Last edited by toonsterwu; 03-02-2011, 07:17 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by descendency View Post
            If the Patriots let JJ Watt fall to 16 and don't offer the Jags atleast a 4th to trade spots, I will be mad :(
            We didn't do trades, but I would point out one thing - JJ Watt is very similar to Jared Odrick last year. He's a better athlete, but BB is very specific about his DL guys, and while I LOVE Watt (and you can ask folks on IRC how much I love Watt), I can see BB wondering if Watt is capable of being the classic "hold the corner" 2-gap 5-technique that he prefers.

            I can see Watt going there, but it also wouldn't surprise me if BB decided that he didn't love the option of Watt in the mid-first.

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            • #21
              What would be wrong with Nevis or Paea? I'd gladly accept either. Nevis definitely fits the mold of a penetrating UT and that would greatly tempt JA and Lovie. Paea may not be a great fit in the same way, but his value is terrific there. With Harris and possibly Adams both out, we simply need more talent at the position, in whatever form.

              And while our WR corps definitely requires help, as right now it is entirely made up of guys who would be great #3s, I don't buy Jerry Angelo actually going that way.

              J'Marcus Webb terrified me at LT as well, as I feel like he'd get Cutler badly blindsided. And sadly, he's probably going to get every chance to be our LT of the future too...

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              • #22
                loves me some Phil Taylor

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by toonsterwu View Post
                  I'll jump in real quick on a few things.

                  Falcons - I pushed for the Mike Pouncey pick, but I could certainly see them go in another direction. If they believe Justin Houston can be a capable pass rusher as a DE, then that makes sense for them, and I admittedly didn't ponder Houston too much. I've got a hard time seeing them go Torrey Smith, but I wouldn't rule it out.

                  Let's be honest, online IRC mocks, when we near the end, it's sort of, let's get it done. My rationale for the Pouncey pick was that McClure was aging, and Dahl was a FA. Would it be that inconceivable, if they liked Pouncey enough (and I think Pouncey will go in Rd. 1 right now) for them to grab a guy to groom. Off the top, isn't Blalock a FA as well?

                  They both are FAs. Mike Johnson, our 3rd rounder from last year, is ready to slide in, and a plethora of other guys at that other G spot. And that's assuming we bring neither back.


                  We are good on depth. We need explosiveness, which is what Smith/Dimitroff have been preaching since the Packers steam rolled us.

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                  • #24
                    We don't need an ILB. We do however need an OLB. Justin Houston no question there.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GB12 View Post
                      We don't need an ILB. We do however need an OLB. Justin Houston no question there.
                      Martez would be an OLB. The value is very good with Houston but he seems like a very poor fit in the Packers 3-4. At 270 and with his limited COD skill, Houston is a much better fit as a 4-3 DE. Clay is their feature pass rusher so they need a guy on the other side who they can trust in coverage so they can give move Clay around and give him the flexibility to rush from different places. Houston is strictly as pass rusher as an OLB. Martez was actually at his best at Illinois when they let him come off the edge and he clearly has the athleticism and experience to be effective dropping in coverage. He could be a versatile, highly athletic weapon for Capers to use in his defense.

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                      • #26
                        Ijalana is a solid pick there, although i would prefer Cannon and i think the Steelers would probably prefer Wisnewski (sp).

                        And ofc a CB is always a possibility.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by BeerBaron View Post
                          What would be wrong with Nevis or Paea? I'd gladly accept either. Nevis definitely fits the mold of a penetrating UT and that would greatly tempt JA and Lovie. Paea may not be a great fit in the same way, but his value is terrific there. With Harris and possibly Adams both out, we simply need more talent at the position, in whatever form.

                          And while our WR corps definitely requires help, as right now it is entirely made up of guys who would be great #3s, I don't buy Jerry Angelo actually going that way.

                          J'Marcus Webb terrified me at LT as well, as I feel like he'd get Cutler badly blindsided. And sadly, he's probably going to get every chance to be our LT of the future too...
                          In the Lovie regime, certain positions on defense are places that they tend to not give high energy to, and much as I love Paea, I've got a hard time seeing them target a 4-3 NT in the first. If they believed Paea was a possible 3-technique, okay.

                          I love Nevis. I really do, but ... he's so undersized that I'm not sure Nevis has first round value.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by toonsterwu View Post
                            In the Lovie regime, certain positions on defense are places that they tend to not give high energy to, and much as I love Paea, I've got a hard time seeing them target a 4-3 NT in the first. If they believed Paea was a possible 3-technique, okay.

                            I love Nevis. I really do, but ... he's so undersized that I'm not sure Nevis has first round value.
                            We have Melton at 260 playing there, and it's not quite like the league is heavily enough run-oriented that I'd worry about Nevis standing up against power run teams.

                            Definite possibility I think.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by BeerBaron View Post
                              We have Melton at 260 playing there, and it's not quite like the league is heavily enough run-oriented that I'd worry about Nevis standing up against power run teams.

                              Definite possibility I think.
                              Wait, i think you are misunderstanding me, or something. I'm not saying Nevis isn't a 3-technique, or that he isn't a fit. I love his pass-rushing ability.

                              I'm saying that a 280ish, 6'0" Nevis, who isn't that stout against the run, well, I'm not real sold that player is a first round pick.

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                              • #30
                                Just looked up his official numbers....6'0 and half and 294. Not bad at all. I was worried more about weight than height. Being short and stumpy might actually benefit him in getting leverage.

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