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  • Originally posted by eazyb81
    Yeah, we all know about that southeast media bias, especially for the dynasty known as the early 90's New Orleans Saints - that franchise was just a Pro Bowl factory.



    :roll:
    No media bias. Once you make two or three deserving Pro Bowls on the offensive line, most likely you make it 8 in a row. Thats just the way it is. Look at Larry Allen this year. Roaf might of deserved to make all 11, but I seriously doubt that.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Bohleive
      I was responding to someone else on Roaf.
      Then respond to them directly.

      And of course I realize that they change who they lineup against, I even made that point with Merriman, who got no sacks when lined up against Ogden.
      So if you realize DEs change where they line up, why did you argue it for so long? That makes no sense. Anyways, glad we now agree on the DEs that have given Ogden trouble over the past couple years. Moving on...

      And do you ever watch Ravens games? I haven't missed one since '98. Are you some kind of avid Ravens fan? My points stand.
      I am a fan of the NFL, and I true to watch many Baltimore games because of their defense - Sunday Ticket is a wonderful product, you should look into it. And what points did you make again? All you have said during this tirade is to name DEs that have been successful against Ogden; I have done this, you agree with them, so I fail to see what "points" are left standing.

      I think you're the one with ADD. You keep changing your argument. What ever happened to a number of Pro Bowls not being a stat?
      You're just spouting off bull****. Give some evidence to back up your opinion.
      While the accumulation of Pro Bowl awards could loosely be considered a stat, a Pro Bowl award itself is not a quantitative stat that can be measured; rather, it is a subjective award voted on by moronic fans. It's too bad that more stats aren't collected for Olinemen, but we have to work with what is at our disposal - sacks allowed and our own eyes. And my own eyes tell me Ogden was not the best Olineman of our generation.


      Originally posted by BrownsTown

      If Chase Daniel finishes top 5 in the Heisman I'll cut my balls off.

      2008 COTTON BOWL CHAMPIONS

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jughead10
        Originally posted by eazyb81
        Yeah, we all know about that southeast media bias, especially for the dynasty known as the early 90's New Orleans Saints - that franchise was just a Pro Bowl factory.



        :roll:
        No media bias. Once you make two or three deserving Pro Bowls on the offensive line, most likely you make it 8 in a row. Thats just the way it is. Look at Larry Allen this year. Roaf might of deserved to make all 11, but I seriously doubt that.
        Of course, but you could say that for everyone, so i'm not sure what your point is.


        Originally posted by BrownsTown

        If Chase Daniel finishes top 5 in the Heisman I'll cut my balls off.

        2008 COTTON BOWL CHAMPIONS

        Comment


        • Originally posted by eazyb81
          Originally posted by Jughead10
          Originally posted by eazyb81
          Yeah, we all know about that southeast media bias, especially for the dynasty known as the early 90's New Orleans Saints - that franchise was just a Pro Bowl factory.



          :roll:
          No media bias. Once you make two or three deserving Pro Bowls on the offensive line, most likely you make it 8 in a row. Thats just the way it is. Look at Larry Allen this year. Roaf might of deserved to make all 11, but I seriously doubt that.
          Of course, but you could say that for everyone, so i'm not sure what your point is.
          My point is I wouldn't throw around the number 11 pro bowls as a good justification of why he should make the HOF. Which is why I orginially asked how many times he was voted All Pro before I had the sarcastic southeast media bias comment with the rolling eyes thrown in my face.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jughead10
            Originally posted by eazyb81
            Yeah, we all know about that southeast media bias, especially for the dynasty known as the early 90's New Orleans Saints - that franchise was just a Pro Bowl factory.



            :roll:
            No media bias. Once you make two or three deserving Pro Bowls on the offensive line, most likely you make it 8 in a row. Thats just the way it is. Look at Larry Allen this year. Roaf might of deserved to make all 11, but I seriously doubt that.
            You could say the same thing about Michael Strahan.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Splat420
              Originally posted by Jughead10
              Originally posted by eazyb81
              Yeah, we all know about that southeast media bias, especially for the dynasty known as the early 90's New Orleans Saints - that franchise was just a Pro Bowl factory.



              :roll:
              No media bias. Once you make two or three deserving Pro Bowls on the offensive line, most likely you make it 8 in a row. Thats just the way it is. Look at Larry Allen this year. Roaf might of deserved to make all 11, but I seriously doubt that.
              You could say the same thing about Michael Strahan.
              Actually no. DEs for example are generally voted to the Pro Bowl primarily on their sack counts. Strahan hasn't really made Pro Bowls he doesn't deserve. Which is why he hasn't had 8 or 9 in a row. However that sometimes leads to one dimensional pass rushing only DEs making the Pro Bowl.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by eazyb81
                Originally posted by Bohleive
                I was responding to someone else on Roaf.
                Then respond to them directly.

                And of course I realize that they change who they lineup against, I even made that point with Merriman, who got no sacks when lined up against Ogden.
                So if you realize DEs change where they line up, why did you argue it for so long? That makes no sense. Anyways, glad we now agree on the DEs that have given Ogden trouble over the past couple years. Moving on...

                And do you ever watch Ravens games? I haven't missed one since '98. Are you some kind of avid Ravens fan? My points stand.
                I am a fan of the NFL, and I true to watch many Baltimore games because of their defense - Sunday Ticket is a wonderful product, you should look into it. And what points did you make again? All you have said during this tirade is to name DEs that have been successful against Ogden; I have done this, you agree with them, so I fail to see what "points" are left standing.

                I think you're the one with ADD. You keep changing your argument. What ever happened to a number of Pro Bowls not being a stat?
                You're just spouting off bull****. Give some evidence to back up your opinion.
                While the accumulation of Pro Bowl awards could loosely be considered a stat, a Pro Bowl award itself is not a quantitative stat that can be measured; rather, it is a subjective award voted on by moronic fans. It's too bad that more stats aren't collected for Olinemen, but we have to work with what is at our disposal - sacks allowed and our own eyes. And my own eyes tell me Ogden was not the best Olineman of our generation.
                First off, what? I never argued that DL didn't shift where they lined up. I merely said certain guys didn't line up vs JO. That remains true of Peppers. As for Mathis, I misspoke; he rarely lined up against JO and did nothing against him when he did. And I never agreed with you on JO getting dominated by anyone on your list other than Freeny, for one game out of three, in the dome, with bum knee. In fact I never conceded that they even 'gave him trouble'.
                Secondly, you gave names, that's it. I responded with facts. None of those names got a sack against Ogden this season. Go ahead, respond with facts. Your opinion only has so much weight.
                Finally, Pro Bowls can be measured; 3 Pro Bowls, see theres a measurement. It's quantitative. Of course the award itself is not intrinsicly a statistic, a tackle by itself without numbers, the simple act, is not a quantitative statistic either. What's your point? And of course fans weigh in on pro bowls, but you neglect to mention that coaches and players have an equal say. Besides, who would you rather be the third party? Tennis fans. At least the fans follow the game. The system is flawed, but it works.

                Comment


                • Ogden most certainly made Pro Bowls he didn't deserve, but right now he is the best OT of this era. Pace had a chance to pass him but I don't its gonna happen anymore. The fact that he won a Super Bowl and was on a unit that blocked for a 2,000 yard rusher are two huge things he has over most OTs.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bohleive
                    First off, what? I never argued that DL didn't shift where they lined up. I merely said certain guys didn't line up vs JO. That remains true of Peppers. As for Mathis, I misspoke; he rarely lined up against JO and did nothing against him when he did. And I never agreed with you on JO getting dominated by anyone on your list other than Freeny, for one game out of three, in the dome, with bum knee. In fact I never conceded that they even 'gave him trouble'.
                    I mentioned about 5 players that gave Ogden trouble, and the only one you refuted was Peppers. Therefore, it was implied that you agreed with me on the other players. I know for an absolute fact that Mathis did indeed get a sack off of Ogden, so i'm having a hard time taking anything you say seriously at this point.

                    Secondly, you gave names, that's it. I responded with facts. None of those names got a sack against Ogden this season. Go ahead, respond with facts. Your opinion only has so much weight.
                    LOL, what "facts" did you respond with outside of Pro Bowls? You have mentioned ad nauseum about Ogden's vaunted Pro Bowl nominations, but that simply indicates how well he was regarded by the fans - it has no bearing on his actual play.

                    It appears that the crutch of your argument is the number of Ogden's Pro Bowl nominations, which is fairly weak on your part. Why even enter this discussion if the only tool you can use to judge a player's worth is how many times he has been to Hawaii? You could easily look up this information on wikipedia and save yourself a lot of time.

                    Finally, Pro Bowls can be measured; 3 Pro Bowls, see theres a measurement. It's quantitative. Of course the award itself is not intrinsicly a statistic, a tackle by itself without numbers, the simple act, is not a quantitative statistic either. What's your point?
                    You really can't comprehend by now what my point? Jesus man, you are slow. My whole point, which we have gone back and forth on numerous times, is that a Pro Bowl nomination is qualitative and subjective, not quantitative. It's a popularity contest. Period. End of story. I wish you could realize this, but it's obvious by now that you're slower than the average bear.


                    Originally posted by BrownsTown

                    If Chase Daniel finishes top 5 in the Heisman I'll cut my balls off.

                    2008 COTTON BOWL CHAMPIONS

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jughead10
                      Ogden most certainly made Pro Bowls he didn't deserve, but right now he is the best OT of this era. Pace had a chance to pass him but I don't its gonna happen anymore. The fact that he won a Super Bowl and was on a unit that blocked for a 2,000 yard rusher are two huge things he has over most OTs.
                      :?:

                      Pace has a SB ring and was the best blocker for one of the greatest offensive units of this era - The Greatest Show On Turf.


                      Originally posted by BrownsTown

                      If Chase Daniel finishes top 5 in the Heisman I'll cut my balls off.

                      2008 COTTON BOWL CHAMPIONS

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by eazyb81
                        Originally posted by Jughead10
                        Ogden most certainly made Pro Bowls he didn't deserve, but right now he is the best OT of this era. Pace had a chance to pass him but I don't its gonna happen anymore. The fact that he won a Super Bowl and was on a unit that blocked for a 2,000 yard rusher are two huge things he has over most OTs.
                        :?:

                        Pace has a SB ring and was the best blocker for one of the greatest offensive units of this era - The Greatest Show On Turf.
                        I know Pace has a ring as well. But the 2,000 yard rusher is much more impressive than blocking for the greatest show on turf. Especially since it was a different year than Ogden's Super Bowl year. Pace seems to tiring out and getting banged up a bit earlier in his career than Ogden. I thought Pace would be considered the best of this era but I don't think that is the case anymore.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by eazyb81
                          Originally posted by Bohleive
                          First off, what? I never argued that DL didn't shift where they lined up. I merely said certain guys didn't line up vs JO. That remains true of Peppers. As for Mathis, I misspoke; he rarely lined up against JO and did nothing against him when he did. And I never agreed with you on JO getting dominated by anyone on your list other than Freeny, for one game out of three, in the dome, with bum knee. In fact I never conceded that they even 'gave him trouble'.
                          I mentioned about 5 players that gave Ogden trouble, and the only one you refuted was Peppers. Therefore, it was implied that you agreed with me on the other players. I know for an absolute fact that Mathis did indeed get a sack off of Ogden, so i'm having a hard time taking anything you say seriously at this point.

                          Secondly, you gave names, that's it. I responded with facts. None of those names got a sack against Ogden this season. Go ahead, respond with facts. Your opinion only has so much weight.
                          LOL, what "facts" did you respond with outside of Pro Bowls? You have mentioned ad nauseum about Ogden's vaunted Pro Bowl nominations, but that simply indicates how well he was regarded by the fans - it has no bearing on his actual play.

                          It appears that the crutch of your argument is the number of Ogden's Pro Bowl nominations, which is fairly weak on your part. Why even enter this discussion if the only tool you can use to judge a player's worth is how many times he has been to Hawaii? You could easily look up this information on wikipedia and save yourself a lot of time.

                          Finally, Pro Bowls can be measured; 3 Pro Bowls, see theres a measurement. It's quantitative. Of course the award itself is not intrinsicly a statistic, a tackle by itself without numbers, the simple act, is not a quantitative statistic either. What's your point?
                          You really can't comprehend by now what my point? Jesus man, you are slow. My whole point, which we have gone back and forth on numerous times, is that a Pro Bowl nomination is qualitative and subjective, not quantitative. It's a popularity contest. Period. End of story. I wish you could realize this, but it's obvious by now that you're slower than the average bear.
                          First, Mathis DID NOT get a sack against Ogden. He got one off of Pashos in the playoff game if that is what you are refferring to. Second, I did gave facts; # of sacks vs. Third, I never even mentioned the number of pro bowls that JO has been to. Fourth, I said that a number of pro bowls was a statistic, nothing else. If you were making the point that they were subjective, it was nebulous at best. Of course they are subjective. So are HOF selections. That doesn't mean they are irrelevant. I also already said that the system, while subjective, is still useful. By your logic, HOF selections are a popularity contest too, so why shouldn't pro bowls be considered?

                          Comment


                          • Warren Sapp is not a sure thing and neither is Curtis Martin (the Art Monk among RBs).

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Finsfan79
                              Originally posted by bearsfan_51
                              Originally posted by Finsfan79
                              Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas

                              Definitely JT

                              Kevin Carter could get in as well for the longevity of his career and what he has accomplished.
                              God damn you Dolphins fans are the worst. Zach Thomas is not a sure fire HOF. I'm not having this debate again.

                              And Kevin Carter is just stupid.
                              I will take Edwin Pope's opinion over yours thank you. Considering he is one of 4 people that have been to every super bowl and has been covering the NFL before you lived most likely. At the same time he has a HoF vote. He says Zach is a HoF then he is.

                              Kevin Carter could end up making the lists, I said Could not for sure.

                              But Zach Thomas will be in the HoF.
                              Edwin Pope writes for the Miami Herald, what the hell do you expect him to say? Jesus Christ.

                              This is not an overgeneralization, and I have no agenda against Thomas, I'm just sick of every single Dolphins fan thinking Thomas has a legacy in this game when he doesn't. We even made a freakin' poll if he had ANY chance of making the HOF, and guess what, he lost!!!!

                              He was never the best at his position.

                              The Dolphins haven't done bumpkis in the playoffs in his career.

                              He's not a game changer, he's not influential, he doesn't make impact plays, and he doesn't have the ProBowls or the awards.

                              He's a tackling machine, and he's a scrappy player, but that doesn't get you in the HOF. Give it up.


                              Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

                              Comment


                              • QB: Peyton Manning, Brett Favre, Tom Brady
                                RB: Marshall Faulk, Ladanian Tomlinson, Curtis Martin
                                WR: Torry Holt, Marvin Harrison
                                TE: Tony Gonzalez
                                OL: Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden
                                DL: Michael Strahan, Warren Sapp, Jason Taylor
                                LB: Ray Lewis, Derrick Brooks, Junior Seau
                                DB: Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins
                                K: Adam Vinatieri

                                Thats 20 and there are some younger guys who could make their way onto this list soon so it could be anywhere from 20 to 35, Im going to say no more than 30 though.

                                Comment

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