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Top 5 QB's Of All Time

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  • #76
    Originally posted by bigbluedefense
    Brady does more with less than anybody.
    i still find that that's a garbage argument that's used FAR too often to really be meaningful anymore. this year he did more with nothing, and even then, "nothing" is qualified as "no WRs but a great running game and some pretty good TEs". it's like, people see one thing with a low talent level on the pats and instantly the team is bereft of talent. that's obvious crap.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by njx9
      Originally posted by bigbluedefense
      Brady does more with less than anybody.
      i still find that that's a garbage argument that's used FAR too often to really be meaningful anymore. this year he did more with nothing, and even then, "nothing" is qualified as "no WRs but a great running game and some pretty good TEs". it's like, people see one thing with a low talent level on the pats and instantly the team is bereft of talent. that's obvious crap.
      I would call it a solid running game, not a great one. A great running game needs a YPC average of at least 4.5, while Dillon was around 4.1, and Maroney around 4.3. It wasn't bad, but it was hardly great.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by frogstomp
        Originally posted by njx9
        Originally posted by bigbluedefense
        Brady does more with less than anybody.
        i still find that that's a garbage argument that's used FAR too often to really be meaningful anymore. this year he did more with nothing, and even then, "nothing" is qualified as "no WRs but a great running game and some pretty good TEs". it's like, people see one thing with a low talent level on the pats and instantly the team is bereft of talent. that's obvious crap.
        I would call it a solid running game, not a great one. A great running game needs a YPC average of at least 4.5, while Dillon was around 4.1, and Maroney around 4.3. It wasn't bad, but it was hardly great.
        if a running back had 1500 yards and 20 tds, he had a great season. i don't know why the standards are different just because they were splitting carries (this isn't LT and Turner, where LT still had the VAST majority of the carries).

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        • #79
          Originally posted by njx9
          Originally posted by bigbluedefense
          Brady does more with less than anybody.
          i still find that that's a garbage argument that's used FAR too often to really be meaningful anymore. this year he did more with nothing, and even then, "nothing" is qualified as "no WRs but a great running game and some pretty good TEs". it's like, people see one thing with a low talent level on the pats and instantly the team is bereft of talent. that's obvious crap.
          Well, his offensive line while blocking well, is not nearly as good as Brady makes it look. Brady is so good at creating time for himself, he barely gets sacked because of his release, and pocket presence.

          As far as wideouts, he has nobody who can stretch the field, or catch the ball for that matter.

          In terms of TEs, I honestly think his TEs are overrated. Ben Watson has not lived up to expectations, and was not entirely effective. Graham has solid hands, but you won't mistake him for Gates anytime soon.

          As far as the run game is concerned, Dillen is done. He has a good back in Maroney, but Bellichick underutilized him by giving too many carries to Dillen.


          There is plenty of talent on this team, I agree with you. But I think most of it is on the defensive side of the ball. The offense lives and dies with Brady. He has good TEs (not great but good) and a decent run game, but still, he does an amazing job. He was a defensive choke job away from winning another SB.

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          • #80
            i should qualify my original bit by saying i believe brady is 1a or 1b in current nfl quarterbacks. but i am really sick of people acting like brady does it all by himself and that, when he fails in the playoffs, it was lack of talent or execution by other folks, when for anyone else in the league, it was because the QB choked (like DMW was implying).

            but more, i'm really sick of people acting like brady is the only talented player on the entire team. iirc, brady did not lead the patriots to the super bowl in 2002 (that was bledsoe). brady threw the last interception against indy (not reche). the patriots defense was not, in their three super bowl years, equivalent to whatever "product" detroit was putting on the field.

            so while i think you're right that if brady is down, the offense stalls (see: new england vs. denver in the last 5 years), it's exceptionally dishonest (duplicitous, perhaps) to suggest that he is the only reason that team has ever done anything.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by njx9
              i should qualify my original bit by saying i believe brady is 1a or 1b in current nfl quarterbacks. but i am really sick of people acting like brady does it all by himself and that, when he fails in the playoffs, it was lack of talent or execution by other folks, when for anyone else in the league, it was because the QB choked (like DMW was implying).

              but more, i'm really sick of people acting like brady is the only talented player on the entire team. iirc, brady did not lead the patriots to the super bowl in 2002 (that was bledsoe). brady threw the last interception against indy (not reche). the patriots defense was not, in their three super bowl years, equivalent to whatever "product" detroit was putting on the field.

              so while i think you're right that if brady is down, the offense stalls (see: new england vs. denver in the last 5 years), it's exceptionally dishonest (duplicitous, perhaps) to suggest that he is the only reason that team has ever done anything.
              Oh of course. I agree with that. Brady doesn't win 3 SBs without some luck, a great defense, and for 1 year, a very solid run game. But at the same time, I think he's largely responsible for their offensive success. He's never had a true 1 receiver, and for his 2nd SB, had a mediocre run game. He's definately a leader, and has lead the team to victories, I know not all the time they were TDs, but who cares, he got them in scoring position.

              No qb can do it by themself, Montana had Rice and Taylor, Elway did it when he got TD, etc. But I think out of the great QBs of the past 20 years, Brady has had more success with less offensive talent than any other qb. You can make an argument for Favre and Elway, but Elway didn't win a SB until he had Sharpe and TD and Rod Smith. Favre you could make an argument for.

              Remember, Im projecting here. I don't think he's there yet, but I think he will be top 5 when its all said and done.

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              • #82
                1)Unitas
                2)Montana
                3)Favre
                4)Elway
                5)Baugh

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                • #83
                  1. Peyton Manning
                  2.a) Dan Marino
                  2.b) Joe Montana
                  3. Bret Favre
                  4. John Elway
                  5. Steve Young

                  I've seen em' all and Peyton is the greatest I've ever seen.

                  As a football player Unitas was overrated imo, exceptional for his time but, he shouldn't be on this list. Still one of my old favs.

                  Thanks BoneKrusher^

                  http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                  http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                  KO KNOWS

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by 49ersfan_87
                    Originally posted by Gribble
                    Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.
                    Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.
                    I think it's because he won those MVP's and the Super Bowl a long time ago. People are thinking of Favre these last few years where he hasn't had a team around him that was as good as his best years and letting that diminish his legacy a little bit. All the other players in people's top 5's are retired for the most part so that makes them look at the career as a whole. For example, when people put Dan Marino in the top 5 they never thought of his final year. I guarantee if Favre just retired he'd be in more top 5's. I'm not saying the last few years have tarnished his legacy cause when you look at it in whole it's as impressive as anybody's, it's just that people don't see the "greatness" they saw years ago. I think in the end more people will realize that than they do right now, because in the back of their mind there's retirement talk every year, team isn't successful as in years past, and some people get tired of hearing about him. I'm not saying they're taking this into account intentionally when ranking him, just indirectly and unintentionally.
                    I remember: Sean Taylor

                    Bosanac01

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                    • #85
                      1. John Elway
                      2. Dan Marino
                      3. Joe Montana
                      4. Brett Favre
                      5. Peyton Manning

                      That is correct comahan
                      I ******* LOVE YOU DG
                      <3 dg

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by someone447
                        Originally posted by njx9
                        Originally posted by someone447
                        Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)
                        i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.
                        :-D, that was against the Lions in the first round of the playoffs. Elway definitely could make a throw like that. I think his arm may have even been stronger than Favre's ever was.
                        It was a 40 yard td pass and somehow Sterling Sharpe was wide open in the end zone. How do you let Sterling Sharpe wide open in the endzone. That td just baffles me. It was a great game though.

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_pla...troit_Lions_24

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                          1. Dylan
                          2. Dylan
                          3. Dylan
                          4. Dylan
                          5. Dylan

                          Cause he spit hot fire....

                          But seriously, top 5

                          1. Unitas
                          2. Montana
                          3. Elway
                          4. Marino
                          5. Brady (im projecting here)

                          To me, there are only 2 players in NFL history that changed the game at a magnitude that will never be reached by anyone else. Thats Lawrence Taylor on defense, and Johhny Unitas on offense. The man was so ahead of his time, its not even funny. Peyton Manning just recently broke his all time yardage record for the Colts, and remember, Unitas played in the 50s/60s! Totally different era, for him to play like a qb from the 80s during the 50s.....he was so ahead of his time. Changed the game. I like Montana better, but you gotta respect what Unitas did during his era. Unbelievable. Id give Tarkenton some love, but the man just choked in the SB too much.

                          As far as Brady goes, Im projecting here. He's this generations Montana. Everyone wants to kill him now that Peyton won a SB and Brady lost, but thats dumb, I can point out the 49-3 asswhoopin the Giants gave Montana, or the 15-13 boxing match with him, but that doesn't mean he stinks. He was amazing, and so is Brady. Brady does more with less than anybody.
                          Plus, nobody will ever break Unitas' record of most consecutive games with a touchdown pass (47). I don't think anybody has ever come within ten games of it.

                          Consider that he's also sixth on the all-time touchdown pass list, even though, like you said, he played in an era with very little passing and a twelve or fourteen game season. He was an revolutionary player, and played far before his time. His greatest asset, though, was how tough of an SOB he was.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by yourfavestoner
                            Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                            1. Dylan
                            2. Dylan
                            3. Dylan
                            4. Dylan
                            5. Dylan

                            Cause he spit hot fire....

                            But seriously, top 5

                            1. Unitas
                            2. Montana
                            3. Elway
                            4. Marino
                            5. Brady (im projecting here)

                            To me, there are only 2 players in NFL history that changed the game at a magnitude that will never be reached by anyone else. Thats Lawrence Taylor on defense, and Johhny Unitas on offense. The man was so ahead of his time, its not even funny. Peyton Manning just recently broke his all time yardage record for the Colts, and remember, Unitas played in the 50s/60s! Totally different era, for him to play like a qb from the 80s during the 50s.....he was so ahead of his time. Changed the game. I like Montana better, but you gotta respect what Unitas did during his era. Unbelievable. Id give Tarkenton some love, but the man just choked in the SB too much.

                            As far as Brady goes, Im projecting here. He's this generations Montana. Everyone wants to kill him now that Peyton won a SB and Brady lost, but thats dumb, I can point out the 49-3 asswhoopin the Giants gave Montana, or the 15-13 boxing match with him, but that doesn't mean he stinks. He was amazing, and so is Brady. Brady does more with less than anybody.
                            Plus, nobody will ever break Unitas' record of most consecutive games with a touchdown pass (47). I don't think anybody has ever come within ten games of it.

                            Consider that he's also sixth on the all-time touchdown pass list, even though, like you said, he played in an era with very little passing and a twelve or fourteen game season. He was an revolutionary player, and played far before his time. His greatest asset, though, was how tough of an SOB he was.
                            now that two people have said the same thing: what cornerbacks (comparable in *coverage* to those playing today) did unitas play against?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Nitschke-Hawk
                              Originally posted by 49ersfan_87
                              Originally posted by Gribble
                              Favre isn't getting a ton of love on here. Just an observation.
                              Nobody views him as top 5 except packer fans. For the most part anyways.
                              I think it's because he won those MVP's and the Super Bowl a long time ago. People are thinking of Favre these last few years where he hasn't had a team around him that was as good as his best years and letting that diminish his legacy a little bit. All the other players in people's top 5's are retired for the most part so that makes them look at the career as a whole. For example, when people put Dan Marino in the top 5 they never thought of his final year. I guarantee if Favre just retired he'd be in more top 5's. I'm not saying the last few years have tarnished his legacy cause when you look at it in whole it's as impressive as anybody's, it's just that people don't see the "greatness" they saw years ago. I think in the end more people will realize that than they do right now, because in the back of their mind there's retirement talk every year, team isn't successful as in years past, and some people get tired of hearing about him. I'm not saying they're taking this into account intentionally when ranking him, just indirectly and unintentionally.
                              here's what I get out of this..."Packer fans (and Favre) are living in the past"
                              Probably a reason they want to trade for Moss

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Maybe Next Year Millen
                                Originally posted by someone447
                                Originally posted by njx9
                                Originally posted by someone447
                                Wow, Favre is my all time favorite player, and I wouldn't say he is the best QB ever. I'll do my pre-WC offense, and my post-WC offense(I chose that time period because the West Coast offense completely changed offenses completely, making the statistics impossible to compare. Not to mention, the rules were changed to open up the passing game in 1978.)
                                i figured someone would be surprised. i recall seeing favre sprinting straight to the right (around '94-'95) and firing the ball across his body 60 yards downfield on a rope for a completion. elway was the only other quarterback i think had a vague chance of making the same throw. and that's just on thing that popped into mind.
                                :-D, that was against the Lions in the first round of the playoffs. Elway definitely could make a throw like that. I think his arm may have even been stronger than Favre's ever was.
                                It was a 40 yard td pass and somehow Sterling Sharpe was wide open in the end zone. How do you let Sterling Sharpe wide open in the endzone. That td just baffles me. It was a great game though.

                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_pla...troit_Lions_24
                                He still threw it 60 yards on a rope. He rolled out and launched it to the back of the endzone.

                                No one is saying that he is as good of a QB as he was in 96. But he is still an above average starting QB in the NFL.
                                I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                                Hunter S. Thompson

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