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Looking back at the 04 draft: QBs

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  • #76
    Originally posted by njx9
    Originally posted by myinnerself
    Originally posted by GiantRutgersFan
    Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....
    If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

    edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.
    counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

    I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?
    aka KGB Chicken

    Comment


    • #77
      I would have to go with Philip Rivers, followed by Big Ben.



      Sveen's 2015 NFL Draft Spreadsheet

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      • #78
        Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
        Originally posted by njx9
        Originally posted by myinnerself
        Originally posted by GiantRutgersFan
        Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....
        If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

        edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.
        counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

        I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?
        sorry, yes, we should all give philip rivers credit for his uncanny ability to stand up to no pass rush and pick apart a 9 deep prevent defense while LT ran wild against linebackers who were too busy retreating to cover the run. and it wasn't the san diego defense or jake plummer who cost denver the win, it was philip rivers, forcing plummer to throw yet another errant pass.

        sorry, wouldn't want to take away credit for making plays the average high school quarterback should make.

        Comment


        • #79
          Phillip Rivers.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by njx9
            Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
            Originally posted by njx9
            Originally posted by myinnerself
            Originally posted by GiantRutgersFan
            Rivers cant make the big plays. he is the king of throwing to Tomlinson at 2 yards, then Tomlinson busting it out for a huge run. Rivers would have had a QB rating below 40 in the playoff game if not for Tomlinson making that huge run off a nothing pass.....
            If you would have watched the Chargers this year you woud know he led us back 5 times and in two consecutive games brought us back when we were down by 17 or more. He also had the best 4th quarter QB rating in the NFL all year, something like 116. So what are you talking about? Really?

            edit: Also, he had a BUNCH of long pass plays to both Vincent Jackson and Malcolm Floyd. He can make the big play.
            counting the denver game is misleading and very nearly a compelte misrepresentaiton of the stats. larry coyer had more to do with that win than rivers. jake plummer had more to do with that win than rivers.

            I think you might be the one misleading people. Larry Coyer more responsible for that game than Philip Rivers? That's definitely a matter of perspective, wouldn't you say?
            sorry, yes, we should all give philip rivers credit for his uncanny ability to stand up to no pass rush and pick apart a 9 deep prevent defense while LT ran wild against linebackers who were too busy retreating to cover the run. and it wasn't the san diego defense or jake plummer who cost denver the win, it was philip rivers, forcing plummer to throw yet another errant pass.

            sorry, wouldn't want to take away credit for making plays the average high school quarterback should make.

            We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.
            aka KGB Chicken

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            • #81
              Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
              We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.
              oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by AlexDown
                Originally posted by cardsalltheway
                Originally posted by YAYareaRB
                What if his name was Eli Weathersby?
                Probably would have gone just as high.
                No he woulden't have.
                I think he would have. Eli had it all as a prospect. Scott said he was the 2nd best QB prospect he had ever seen. Teams aren't going to draft a guy a lot higher just because his brother is great, he had all the tools to be worthy of the #1 pick.

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                • #83
                  Philip Rivers

                  Jay Cutler>Matt Leinart>>>>danman253
                  XBL GT smitty js Go Vandy!!!!!!
                  Chris Johnson son!!!!!!!!
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoUr82vUx60
                  http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/pacman.htm

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by njx9
                    Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                    We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.
                    oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.
                    njx9, while i highly value your opinion, i would be much more inclined to have a conversation on the matter if all your posts weren't so defensive and caustic. you might get intelligent responses back if you didn't make it sound like sour grapes of some sort. i'm not sure what your beef is with philip, but there's no need to be so cynical with every remark.

                    Now, I know I'm a completely biased homer, but I thought Philip did an excellent job keeping his composure after that pick 6 and down by 17 midway through the 3rd quarter in one of the most difficult stadiums to play in in the NFL. You can say what you want, but he was 10/12 for 149 yards, 2 td, and 1 int in the 2nd half of that game. That's pretty damn clutch if you ask me.


                    R.I.P. Sean Taylor
                    R.I.P. Darrent Williams

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by ncst8fan83
                      Originally posted by njx9
                      Originally posted by San Diego Chicken
                      We're still talking about the same game here right? Because Denver dialed up lots of blitz packages in that game. John Clayton even wrote an insider article about it. The wheel route to Tomlinson that went for a touchdown was an all out cover 0 blitz.
                      oh, right, we blitzed early, when we built up the lead. just like we did in every other game. then, in the second half, we essentially went to a no-blitz, prevent defense. just like in every other game in the second half of the season. even assuming you're correct about the wheel route, i have serious doubts that rivers even felt pressure, but that's neither here nor there. again, san diego moved the ball at will on denver because of poor coaching and lack of talent on denver's side. not because philip rivers put them on his back as the OP intimated.
                      njx9, while i highly value your opinion, i would be much more inclined to have a conversation on the matter if all your posts weren't so defensive and caustic. your might get intelligent responses back if you didn't make it sound like sour grapes of some sort. i'm not sure what your beef is with philip, but there's no need to be so cynical with every remark.

                      Now, I know I'm a completely biased homer, but I thought Philip did an excellent job keeping his composure after that pick 6 and down by 17 midway through the 3rd quarter in one of the most difficult stadiums to play in in the NFL. You can say what you want, but he was 10/12 for 149 yards, 2 td, and 1 int in the 2nd half of that game. That's pretty damn clutch if you ask me.
                      part of the problem here likely is because you don't know i'm a denver fan, and that the mere thought of that collapse... well, induces violent rage.

                      i don't hate philip at all, he was by FAR my favorite qb in that draft and, before the senior bowl, someone i really wanted denver to pick up. i hate him now for divisional reasons, but those have little to do with his ability to play the position.

                      regardless. that particular game did not make me think more highly of him as a qb. like i said, he did what most high school qbs would be expected to do in similar circumstances. that's not a knock on his ability.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        This debate needs to be put off, until this time next year. At that point, Eli Manning will have had 3-1/2 years as a starter, Philip Rivers with 2, Ben Roethlisberger with 4, JP Losman with 3-1/2.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          I understand your position, I guess it just irks me when people rail on a specific player for no reason. That is in no way a slight on you, so don't think I'm saying that. Just a general observation of these forums. The fact of the matter is all 4 qb's are far from their prime and none are in a position to carry a team to victory by themselves. Did Philip play great the last quarter and a half of the Denver game? Absolutely. But they don't win if the players on the receiving end of those passes don't make the plays they're suppose to. The same reason you can't pin the playoff loss to the Pats on Philip. The receivers dropped an insane amount of EASY catches that "high school" wideouts and tightends should make. McCree could have ended the game with a knock down of that pass or just falling to the ground after the INT.

                          Who knows how well Eli would be doing right now if it weren't for having Coughlin as a coach and the inordinate amount of injuries the Giants have faced the past couple years. Next year he loses one of the top 5 RBs in the game right now. How will he adjust? Ben just needs to get healthy and JP needs to mature as a QB with his WRs. All 4 will be outstanding and is why knocking any four of them is completely ignorant at this point. None of them are colossal failures. None of them are Hall of Fame QBs. Yet. All four could go either way right now. This discussion shouldn't even take place for another 3 or 4 years anyway.


                          R.I.P. Sean Taylor
                          R.I.P. Darrent Williams

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Shiver
                            This debate needs to be put off, until this time next year. At that point, Eli Manning will have had 3-1/2 years as a starter, Philip Rivers with 2, Ben Roethlisberger with 4, JP Losman with 3-1/2.
                            why would we put this off till next year when next year, we can decide whether vince, cutler or leinart are busts or hall of famers?

                            Originally posted by ncst8fan83
                            This discussion shouldn't even take place for another 3 or 4 years anyway.
                            see above, but substitute in whatever qbs are in their second or third year then.

                            and ncst8: absolutely agree.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              well if we compare the numbers from the last two seasons...

                              Phillip rivers (1 season for him of course)-3388 yards, 61%, 22 TD 9 INT
                              Ben Roethlisberger- 5898 yards, 60%, 35 TD 32 INT
                              Eli Manning- 7006 yards ,54%, 48 TD 35 INT
                              J.P. Losman- 4391 yards, 55%, 27 TD 22 INT

                              from those numbers Eli has had an easier time finding the endzone, but also threw the most picks. Now, if we exclude Eli, and compare Big Ben's numbers with the other two, Losman having one of the two seasons rotating with Kelly Holcomb, and Rivers, who had his first starting season. if Rivers were to have played two seasons his number might look something like 6000 passing yards, 40 TD and 20 INT and maybe 55-60%. but the point is, i don't think you can really make a strong case that any of these guys were any better than the other. Rivers and Losman haven't played enough. and i refuse to give the crown to Big Ben just because his team won a superbowl. he was 9-21 for 123 yards...and 2 picks in that game. But anyway, it's too hard to say who has turned out the best. the picture should be a lot clearer next year.
                              hm. looks like i need a sig...

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                              • #90
                                Rivers.
                                Originally posted by Patriots-Lions
                                Dave is right
                                Originally posted by duckseason
                                Brady is 'just' the Queen on Belichick's chess board.

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