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Dick LeBeau Is A Mad Scientist

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  • Dick LeBeau Is A Mad Scientist

    Im not sure if this deserves its own thread, but its awfully dead here and I figure what the heck.

    But anyway, Ive been looking at alot of the schemery of LeBeau yesterday, and I just can't figure it out. You look at his formations, and what he does, and on paper you'd think he's crazy. Thats not supposed to work. But it does. I just don't get it. I can't figure out how he gets it to work.

    He'll come out with 2 DL and 4 LBs and 3 safeties on 1st down, and somehow they still stop the run at the line.

    Heck, Ive seen him come out with 1 DL, and still get an effective pass rush with his overload blitzing. But with just one DL, how do they come unblocked? You need linemen to free up blitzers, but how does 1, sometimes 2 guys come unblocked with 1 downlinemen? Even if it is an overload, that shouldn't happen.

    Anyway, I know theres people here who has seen much more of his defense than I have. Id love to know more about the details of his scheme. He's mostly known for his zone blitzing, but from my eyeball evaluations, Ive noticed more recently he's more of an overload blitzer opposed to a zoneblitzer. Well, technically some of his overload blitzes are zone blitzes, but you get what im saying. I also noticed his use of Polumalu. He's not even really a traditional SS. Id call him an Xbacker. He does a little bit of everything and is moved around alot.

    If this is inappropriate, feel free to close this thread.

  • #2
    You make a great point and LeBeau has proved himself for a looong time. But I think Rex Ryan is even crazier. Did you see 330 pound Haloti Ngata lining up and middle linebacker and blitzing vs Cincinnati?
    I remember: Sean Taylor

    Bosanac01

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Nitschke-Hawk View Post
      You make a great point and LeBeau has proved himself for a looong time. But I think Rex Ryan is even crazier. Did you see 330 pound Haloti Ngata lining up and middle linebacker and blitzing vs Cincinnati?
      I missed that one. I didn't get to see the whole game. Rex is a great coordinator too. That defense is scary good.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
        Im not sure if this deserves its own thread, but its awfully dead here and I figure what the heck.

        But anyway, Ive been looking at alot of the schemery of LeBeau yesterday, and I just can't figure it out. You look at his formations, and what he does, and on paper you'd think he's crazy. Thats not supposed to work. But it does. I just don't get it. I can't figure out how he gets it to work.

        He'll come out with 2 DL and 4 LBs and 3 safeties on 1st down, and somehow they still stop the run at the line.

        Heck, Ive seen him come out with 1 DL, and still get an effective pass rush with his overload blitzing. But with just one DL, how do they come unblocked? You need linemen to free up blitzers, but how does 1, sometimes 2 guys come unblocked with 1 downlinemen? Even if it is an overload, that shouldn't happen.

        Anyway, I know theres people here who has seen much more of his defense than I have. Id love to know more about the details of his scheme. He's mostly known for his zone blitzing, but from my eyeball evaluations, Ive noticed more recently he's more of an overload blitzer opposed to a zoneblitzer. Well, technically some of his overload blitzes are zone blitzes, but you get what im saying. I also noticed his use of Polumalu. He's not even really a traditional SS. Id call him an Xbacker. He does a little bit of everything and is moved around alot.

        If this is inappropriate, feel free to close this thread.
        A lot of what he does with the Steelers is what we do here at Portland State with Glanville. Obviously it won't be as advanced, but it is a version of the defense.

        You are correct in saying it is an overload blitz, but it is also a zone blitz. When you rush 5 people you normally won't get too much pressure, but when you rush 5 people all from the left side, someone SHOULD come free, especially if the backside players hesitate before dropping to the zone long enough to hold the blockers in front of them. A five tech might end up in the opposite B gap in some plays. The ILB's could be blitzing any gap from just about any position they are in. Now throw in the SS who is liable to do just about anything and you have one very confused offense. A confused offense leads to blown blocks and blown blocks lead to open lanes for blitzers. Normally you are right to say you need linemen to eat up blockers, but when it is such a severe overload, a 200 pound safety can occupy a blocker long enough for one of his buddies to get through. 5 rushers vs 3 linemen and a back? Better hope a backside G or T can peel back quick enough to keep the quarterback off the ground.

        Any of the front 7+the SS could rush or drop into coverage on any one play. It is just a numbers game. When I came up here I was expecting the Gritz Blitz, but instead it is just overloading the blitzers to one side, and I would venture a guess that 5 rushers to one side gets about as much pressure as Glanvilles 9 man Gritz Blitz.
        I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
        Hunter S. Thompson

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        • #5
          Originally posted by someone447 View Post
          A lot of what he does with the Steelers is what we do here at Portland State with Glanville. Obviously it won't be as advanced, but it is a version of the defense.

          You are correct in saying it is an overload blitz, but it is also a zone blitz. When you rush 5 people you normally won't get too much pressure, but when you rush 5 people all from the left side, someone SHOULD come free, especially if the backside players hesitate before dropping to the zone long enough to hold the blockers in front of them. A five tech might end up in the opposite B gap in some plays. The ILB's could be blitzing any gap from just about any position they are in. Now throw in the SS who is liable to do just about anything and you have one very confused offense. A confused offense leads to blown blocks and blown blocks lead to open lanes for blitzers. Normally you are right to say you need linemen to eat up blockers, but when it is such a severe overload, a 200 pound safety can occupy a blocker long enough for one of his buddies to get through. 5 rushers vs 3 linemen and a back? Better hope a backside G or T can peel back quick enough to keep the quarterback off the ground.

          Any of the front 7+the SS could rush or drop into coverage on any one play. It is just a numbers game. When I came up here I was expecting the Gritz Blitz, but instead it is just overloading the blitzers to one side, and I would venture a guess that 5 rushers to one side gets about as much pressure as Glanvilles 9 man Gritz Blitz.
          Question.

          So in your eyes, would the 2 TE set be the most effective set in blocking this scheme. Or perhaps sliding the TE to the side of the blitz and leaving him to block. If you can leave the TE on one side plus a back in to block, you can effectively block the overload no?

          I noticed that generally, it was noticeable which side the pressure was coming from, but they just failed to adequately block it. So if you can identify the side the pressure is being overloaded, and leave 2 guys in to block on that side, would that be the most effective strategy against these packages?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
            Question.

            So in your eyes, would the 2 TE set be the most effective set in blocking this scheme. Or perhaps sliding the TE to the side of the blitz and leaving him to block. If you can leave the TE on one side plus a back in to block, you can effectively block the overload no?

            I noticed that generally, it was noticeable which side the pressure was coming from, but they just failed to adequately block it. So if you can identify the side the pressure is being overloaded, and leave 2 guys in to block on that side, would that be the most effective strategy against these packages?
            The 2 TE set is the most effective set we have faced so far. If the block is a good blocker that could work. But once you get the 5 people to block 5 you only have 3 receivers going out against 6 defenders, plus all 5 of those guys need to do there job and not get beat.

            One of our best blitzes is a safety blitz away from the TE, so when it is a 2TE set the blitz is quite a bit less effective, but the 2TE set is also a less effective passing formation. It is much easier to cover 2 receivers and a TE than it is to cover 3 receivers.

            The best thing to do is to spread the field and run lots of screens and draws, and hope the man who's responsibility it is to cover those screws them up, which if done enough will surely happen. Bubble screens and the like are the toughest to stop because one misread by a blitzing strong safety and you better hope your free safety can catch that back running up the sideline, because I highly doubt the corner fights off his block and makes the tackle in space.

            Football is a chess match, especially against a defense like that. If the offense starts running 2 TE they take a hit in their passing game. If they spread the field, the defense will be forced to use more vanilla blitzes, leaving the SS to help in pass coverage.
            I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
            Hunter S. Thompson

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            • #7
              How Is He Not In The Hall Of Fame

              In 12 Years he had 62 interceptions / 762 yards returned
              avg 5 int a year / 65 yards returned

              didn't even miss a game played thru 3 decades (50's / 60's / 70's)

              70 yr old man now, how long till he becomes a hall of famer

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              • #8
                Originally posted by The Legend View Post
                How Is He Not In The Hall Of Fame

                In 12 Years he had 62 interceptions / 762 yards returned
                avg 5 int a year / 65 yards returned

                didn't even miss a game played thru 3 decades (50's / 60's / 70's)

                70 yr old man now, how long till he becomes a hall of famer
                Agreed he should be in the hall of of fame


                "O-H-I-O...its a four letter word."
                Mike Tirico

                Magilla Gorilla ain'ta killa, ...

                Roger Goodell's Beautify the NFL Campaign-No Violence-No Criminals-No Fun


                "(Ole Miss QB) Bo Wallace is one of those types of quarterbacks who is always trying to save the city but he's actually burning it down." -- NFC director of scouting

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                • #9
                  http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/dic...-hall-of-famer

                  spend 30 seconds and help put Dick LeBeau in the Hall Of Fame

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by someone447 View Post
                    The 2 TE set is the most effective set we have faced so far. If the block is a good blocker that could work. But once you get the 5 people to block 5 you only have 3 receivers going out against 6 defenders, plus all 5 of those guys need to do there job and not get beat.

                    One of our best blitzes is a safety blitz away from the TE, so when it is a 2TE set the blitz is quite a bit less effective, but the 2TE set is also a less effective passing formation. It is much easier to cover 2 receivers and a TE than it is to cover 3 receivers.

                    The best thing to do is to spread the field and run lots of screens and draws, and hope the man who's responsibility it is to cover those screws them up, which if done enough will surely happen. Bubble screens and the like are the toughest to stop because one misread by a blitzing strong safety and you better hope your free safety can catch that back running up the sideline, because I highly doubt the corner fights off his block and makes the tackle in space.

                    Football is a chess match, especially against a defense like that. If the offense starts running 2 TE they take a hit in their passing game. If they spread the field, the defense will be forced to use more vanilla blitzes, leaving the SS to help in pass coverage.
                    Yeah I was just thinking about the spread offense and how it can work effectively against this type of defense. This style of defense definately keeps you on your toes. Now I understand why its so effective on passing downs.

                    Im still baffled though how he's able to come out with 2 downlinemen, sometimes 1 downlinemen on 1st and 2nd down and get away with it. To me, as an offense that screams audible to a run play. It must take a lot of practice and gap discipline to pull off.

                    Are you a coach or a player?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                      Yeah I was just thinking about the spread offense and how it can work effectively against this type of defense. This style of defense definately keeps you on your toes. Now I understand why its so effective on passing downs.

                      Im still baffled though how he's able to come out with 2 downlinemen, sometimes 1 downlinemen on 1st and 2nd down and get away with it. To me, as an offense that screams audible to a run play. It must take a lot of practice and gap discipline to pull off.

                      Are you a coach or a player?
                      Did you watch the game?

                      I'm going to watch it tonight and re-read the defense.

                      Troy Polamalu was in place for a lot of things, even though he only grabbed 1 tackle, he was everywhere.

                      Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

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                      • #12
                        All you need to do is confuse the center, as hes the brain of the Oline and he will give a protection call, if he doesnt know where the strength is and has no idea whose consider the MLB or know which side is the strong side, he cant make pass protection calls. If u blitz 2 LBs 1 Saftey and have the DL slant to the A gap their going, u have 3 potecting 4, which is a loss, thats the goal of blitzing to confuse the into having less blockers that blitzers

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                          Yeah I was just thinking about the spread offense and how it can work effectively against this type of defense. This style of defense definately keeps you on your toes. Now I understand why its so effective on passing downs.

                          Im still baffled though how he's able to come out with 2 downlinemen, sometimes 1 downlinemen on 1st and 2nd down and get away with it. To me, as an offense that screams audible to a run play. It must take a lot of practice and gap discipline to pull off.

                          Are you a coach or a player?
                          I am a player(SS, but some free as well), but my ultimate goal is to coach, which is why i originally came up here. Glanville is a great coach to learn defense under, especially when you are of the much more aggressive school of thought.

                          We occasionally will play with only 2 down linemen, it is a variation of our nickel defense. We have our 2 DE in and our 2 OLBs on the line standing. Then we have our two ILBs playing normal and have an extra strong safety in. But like you said, the SS is mroe of an XBacker, so it is almost a 2-4-2-3 defense. We don't have problems against the run when we are in that.

                          But I have no idea how you can play with one DLmen and not get completely dominated on the run. That is something I would have to watch a lot more closely to figure out. I am only really able to comment on the parts of the Steelers defense that we run similarly.

                          I do have to say it is probably the most fun defense to play in, especially as a SS. It is also a very fun/interesting defense to watch. I would also venture a guess that our defense is one of the most complicated defenses in the nation, we do a lot of stuff that no other college team does. Almost every team we play against or watch will run at least some true zone defenses. We really have no true zone drops. For example, in our cover three look the strong safety carries number 2 on a vertical(until the FS takes it over downfield) unless number three does a quick out. Most college teams have the safety bump that and look for anything to the flats. I also guarantee we blitz our safety more than any team in the nation. Our starting SS last game had 2 sacks and a couple passes batted down, that is pretty damn rare for a safety.
                          I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                          Hunter S. Thompson

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Green Bay Scat View Post
                            All you need to do is confuse the center, as hes the brain of the Oline and he will give a protection call, if he doesnt know where the strength is and has no idea whose consider the MLB or know which side is the strong side, he cant make pass protection calls. If u blitz 2 LBs 1 Saftey and have the DL slant to the A gap their going, u have 3 potecting 4, which is a loss, thats the goal of blitzing to confuse the into having less blockers that blitzers
                            Like BBD said, the Steelers don't even disguise which side they are coming from. It is just which guys are coming and which gaps they are going to. Plus, it doesn't matter if they slide the right way when 5 are coming from one side. One blitz we have the Nose hits A, the End hits B, the Backer hits C the Will and SS go outside the backer. When you look at our playbook, many of our blitzes have a bunch of arrows going to only 2 different gaps.
                            I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                            Hunter S. Thompson

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                            • #15
                              since im an Olineman, i know that in blitzs like that, the Oline cant and will not win, we might get a rb to help, but you take most dangerous and stay on him and hope the QB throws it, thats why u want a QB with a quick release cause these things happen and they need to get the ball out asap

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