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Barry Sanders = GOAT?

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  • Barry Sanders = GOAT?

    LINK

    What do you think?

  • #2
    nope......

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    • #3
      As someone who watched Barry's entire career, I will concede that he had some holes in his game.

      He didn't have a good sense of when to take a short gain instead of losing yards by trying to get loose. His improvisational style didn't contribute well to a consistent offensive plan. He didn't run pass routes that well, although his hands were good enough and he was just fine on screens and stuff. He didn't have the size to block very well, especially on blitz pickup.

      However I don't buy any of that negative stuff about his playoff performances. If you watched any of those games, you'd know that it was the Lions' OL that failed rather than him.

      I'd guess that the only RB's who you could realistically argue were better than Barry are Brown, Payton, and now LT is getting in that debate also. The one thing no one can argue is that Barry was the most unique RB and maybe player in NFL history. No one ever ran like him or had moves like him.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by LionSmack View Post
        As someone who watched Barry's entire career, I will concede that he had some holes in his game.

        He didn't have a good sense of when to take a short gain instead of losing yards by trying to get loose. His improvisational style didn't contribute well to a consistent offensive plan. He didn't run pass routes that well, although his hands were good enough and he was just fine on screens and stuff. He didn't have the size to block very well, especially on blitz pickup.

        However I don't buy any of that negative stuff about his playoff performances. If you watched any of those games, you'd know that it was the Lions' OL that failed rather than him.

        I'd guess that the only RB's who you could realistically argue were better than Barry are Brown, Payton, and now LT is getting in that debate also. The one thing no one can argue is that Barry was the most unique RB and maybe player in NFL history. No one ever ran like him or had moves like him.
        great summary. i agree with most of it.

        my main issue with Barry was his poor vision. he made great highlight reels, but he would too often hit the wrong hole and lose 2 instead of gain 6. he tried to break it too often, and while it made for great highlights, like you said it didn't make for great consistency.

        and it mainly stems from his lack of vision. However, Ive always felt that RBs without elite vision need fullbacks. Sanders wanted a FB his whole career, and when he finally got one, had one of the best seasons ever. Detroit in all their glory however, took the FB away from him. Yeah...im still baffled behind their logic.

        I have him #3 on my personal list.

        1. Jim Brown
        2. Walter Payton
        3. Barry Sanders
        4. OJ Simpson
        5. Earl Campbell (personal preferrence)

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        • #5
          Barry had incredible vision. A lot of times he would set up the second and third guy in line to try and tackle him as he was juking the first one.

          Sometimes the hole just isn't there, though. At times like that, Barry would still try to make something happen and that's when he would lose yards.

          Also later in his career, there were a lot of times when he would get the ball and automatically break it down and start moving laterally when there might have been a hole there if he just ran full out. Yes, even when he had a fullback. He was actually more of a home-run threat when the Lions had their run-shoot offense and didn't even have a fullback on the roster, or later when they ran what is now the Colts' singleback-three wide set. Later, under Ross, when they had a FB, he got his 2000 yard season but had less breakout runs.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by LionSmack View Post
            Barry had incredible vision. A lot of times he would set up the second and third guy in line to try and tackle him as he was juking the first one.

            Sometimes the hole just isn't there, though. At times like that, Barry would still try to make something happen and that's when he would lose yards.

            Also later in his career, there were a lot of times when he would get the ball and automatically break it down and start moving laterally when there might have been a hole there if he just ran full out. Yes, even when he had a fullback. He was actually more of a home-run threat when the Lions had their run-shoot offense and didn't even have a fullback on the roster, or later when they ran what is now the Colts' singleback-three wide set. Later, under Ross, when they had a FB, he got his 2000 yard season but had less breakout runs.
            that makes for poor vision though. if youre trying to break it open every play, thats not great vision. thats why the FB helped him out so much, it gave him a lead to show him his where his first burst needed to be.

            I remember seeing (before there was an NFL network) on ESPN classic they broke down Barry Sanders run game. Alot of times, while to the naked eye it seemed like the line didn't block for him, that was not true. He had a clear hole, but rather than get 6 yards, wanted to bounce it outside and try to take it to the house, and wound up losing 3 yards because of it.

            From a pure runner's standpoint, that is not good. He is great, and im not taking anything away from him, but I think one of the big misconceptions of him is that he had great vision, he didn't.

            Now the open field is a different story. But open field running is very different to hitting the hole.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
              I have him #3 on my personal list.

              1. Jim Brown
              2. Walter Payton
              3. Barry Sanders
              4. OJ Simpson
              5. Earl Campbell (personal preferrence)
              Where does LT go on your top-10?

              I think he is one of the top five of all time, but I guess he doesn't do it with as much flash as some of the others. Definitely one of the best receiving backs, along with Roger Craig and Marshall Faulk.

              My list would be

              1. Jim Brown - Superman
              2. Barry Sanders - Redefined how to run the ball
              3. LT - TD Machine and a great receiver/homerun threat
              4. Walter Payton - Sweetness
              5. Marshall Faulk - Ultimate weapon for the modern O

              I have a predisposition to a running back who is a weapon in the passing game in addition to being a pure runner. To be honest I never even saw Jim Brown play not even highlights, but my dad talks about how amazing he was. Sounds like superman when the old man talks about him, so I gotta give him some props.

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              • #8
                How could anyone have LdT above Walter Payton is amazing to me. Payton did everything that LT does but better and for longer. So he's worse?

                Thanks to BoneKrusher Credit and Rep to him for the sig.

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                • #9
                  He was the best athlete to play running back, but in the traditional sense I don't think he was the best running back.
                  Penn State University - Detroit Red Wings - New York Jets - Red Bull New York - Fulham FC

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                  • #10
                    Jim Brown is, without question, the greatest running back in the history of the game. He broke every single record he could have and in only ten years. I can't do it justice but hopefully this Sporting News article can.

                    He came, he saw, he conquered. And then, like a thief in the night, he disappeared from professional football with every rushing record known to man. Many have been re-established, but the legend of Jim Brown remains as powerful as the body-scattering runs that lifted him to prominence as the Cleveland Browns ultimate offensive weapon from 1957 to 65. He was, simply, the greatest pure runner in the history of the NFL.

                    Brown was a physical masterpiece, a gift from the football gods. His 18-inch neck, wide shoulders and 45-inch chest tapered down to a 32-inch waist and massive thighs that carried him around the field with the grace and power of a jaguar. Brown ran with head high, nostrils flaring, legs pumping and powerful arms swatting away tacklers like flies. He was an amazing combination of power and speed who could juke past slower defenders or run over linebackers and defensive backs.

                    A multisport star at Syracuse, he stormed through the NFL as a 1957 rookie, running for 942 yards and posting the first of eight rushing championships he would claim over a nine-year career. His yearly rushing totals would become the standard for future runners to aspire: 1,527, 1,329, 1,257, 1,408, 1,863, 1,446 and 1,544. The beauty of Brown was that everybody knew he was going to get the ball, and the opposing team still couldnt stop him.

                    The nine-time Pro Bowl choice was equally intimidating off the field, where his menacing glares, in-your-face attitude and outspoken views often were interpreted as resentful and rebellious. He played the game without emotion, the same way he delivered the shocking 1965 news that he would retire, at age 29, while filming a movie in London. He left at the top of his game, the proud owner of one championship ring (1964) and 20 NFL records that included rushing yards (12,312), yards per carry (5.2) and rushing touchdowns (106).
                    I've heard people not even put him in their top five all-time which is ****ing insane. I could see the arguement for Sanders or Payton being better but there's no way that you can make a logical arguement that Emmitt Smith and Eric Dickerson are superior runners.

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                    • #11
                      Barry is my personal favorite and the article you posted makes a great case for him, but I would still give Jim Brown the nod when it comes to the GOAT. He was really ahead of his time because like the article said as a 230+ lb RB he was about as big as the lineman back in those days. He also had incredible speed, so he was basically the ultimate RB.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dabears10 View Post
                        How could anyone have LdT above Walter Payton is amazing to me. Payton did everything that LT does but better and for longer. So he's worse?
                        Except for score more TD's. I think Walter and LT are both similar players, both very balanced players who are natural runners and pass catchers. But LT has played only about half the time that Payton did, and has nearly as many TD's (more if you include his passing TD's). He also should pass Payton in receptions and reception yards within 2 years.

                        The reason I put LT above Payton, is because, LT does do everything that
                        Payton did statistically. But he did it all in half of the time. Is LT as good of a runner or pass catcher, maybe, maybe not. But it doesn't matter, because whether or not he is not as talented, he just manages to get it done.

                        Also, remember in the playoffs last year, he did everything humanly possible and his team lost. But he was amazing against one of the greatest post-season teams of all time. Walter Payton never had a post-season game like that.

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                        • #13
                          1) Sanders
                          2) Brown
                          3) Payton

                          Yes, Sanders may have lost yards when he shouldn't have. But he more then made up for that by breaking so many long runs.

                          Brown may have set all the records in 10 years, but Sanders only played 10 years and finished with better stats than Jim Brown.
                          I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                          Hunter S. Thompson

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by someone447 View Post
                            Brown may have set all the records in 10 years, but Sanders only played 10 years and finished with better stats than Jim Brown.
                            Jim Brown Career Rushing Totals: 2359 Attempts, 12,312 Yards, 5.2 YPC, 106 TD's

                            Barry Sanders Career Rushing Totals: 3062 Attempts, 15,269 Yards, 5.0 YPC, 90 TD's

                            It took Barry 700 more carries to get 3,000 more yards than Brown yet he still has 26 less touchdowns. He also played in 153 games compared to Brown's 118. I think we're done here.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ewing View Post
                              Jim Brown Career Rushing Totals: 2359 Attempts, 12,312 Yards, 5.2 YPC, 106 TD's

                              Barry Sanders Career Rushing Totals: 3062 Attempts, 15,269 Yards, 5.0 YPC, 90 TD's

                              It took Barry 700 more carries to get 3,000 more yards than Brown yet he still has 26 less touchdowns. He also played in 153 games compared to Brown's 118. I think we're done here.
                              And Brown was a man among boys. The competition back then was not eevn close to the past 20-30 years. If Barry Sanders played in Jim Brown's era, he could've probably gotten 2500+ yards every season.

                              Projected win total: 55+

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