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  • #61
    Originally posted by OzTitan
    Originally posted by yourfavestoner
    Originally posted by Jughead10
    Originally posted by yourfavestoner
    Originally posted by Jughead10
    So what does this atricle really saying? The NFL screwed up when even putting a team in Jacksonville in the first place?
    You could certainly make that case, as Jacksonville is the league's smallest market and has the smallest fan base. However, it usually takes generations for a team and a city to establish a bond that results in a large and dedicated fan base. I also think the fact that the Jaguars have been able to sell out their stadium, despite having the smallest market and fan base, is a testament to the people of Jacksonville, as they have a much smaller pool of fans to work with. The biggest mistake they made when putting a team in Jacksonville was making the stadium far too large to sell out in a small market.

    Like I said, this isn't a Jaguars-only issue. There are a number small market teams around the league who have this same problem.
    Didn't the Jaguars have to take a couple thousand seats out of the stadium so they could sell it out and air the games on TV in Jacksonville beacuse of the blackout rules?
    Yes, they did, because the size of the stadium was wayy out of proportion with the size of the market.

    The decision to cover the seats was one of the best decisions to make if the Jaguars wanted to stay in Jacksonville.
    Excuse me if i'm missing something here, but what good does covering seats really do beyond being able to say "Hey, we sold out!" easier?
    Well. By putting away seats and having them "not for sale" it makes the stadium capacity on paper lower and it gets easier to sell out. That way when all the tickets for sale are sold out they can air the games on local television.



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    • #62
      Originally posted by Jughead10
      Football stadiums should always be sold out. Plain and simple. It is the easiest and most affordable sport to own season tickets in.
      Huh?

      Now, while I think Jacksonville should support the team and sell out the seats, but easiest and affordable? I definitely doubt that. It's cheap in Jacksonville, but most everyone else it's an arm and a leg to get a good seat.

      by BoneKrusher
      <DG> how metal unseen
      <TheUnseen> Drunken Canadian Bastard: There's an APS for that

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      • #63
        I think the point of the thread was to suggest that eventually small market teams like the jaguars and bills will not be able to provide competitive rosters, much like baseball now, if something isn't done to parallel the gap between teams such as the Patriots and Jaguars....the thread wasn't created to discuss WHY Jacksonville has a franchise...

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        • #64
          Originally posted by yourfavestoner
          Originally posted by Jughead10
          So what does this atricle really saying? The NFL screwed up when even putting a team in Jacksonville in the first place?
          You could certainly make that case, as Jacksonville is the league's smallest market and has the smallest fan base. However, it usually takes generations for a team and a city to establish a bond that results in a large and dedicated fan base. I also think the fact that the Jaguars have been able to sell out their stadium, despite having the smallest market and fan base, is a testament to the people of Jacksonville, as they have a much smaller pool of fans to work with. The biggest mistake they made when putting a team in Jacksonville was making the stadium far too large to sell out in a small market.

          Like I said, this isn't a Jaguars-only issue. There are a number small market teams around the league who have this same problem.
          Jacksonville is not the smallest market in the NFL. Green Bay is, by far. Green Bay has 100,000, Jacksonville metro has over a million and is growing very fast. Green Bay is successful because of a long winning tradition.

          Has it ever occured to anyone that Jacksonville may be a college football town? Both Florida and Florida State is within a reasonable driving distance. Both storied programs. Not everyone is thrilled with pro sports.

          On to Buffalo. Once Ralph Wilson passes on, that team may be in trouble. Buffalo's population is shrinking, poor, and old. It doesn't have much of a base to draw on. The best scenario is to probably play one or two regular season games in Toronto (they really should play in Canada on Canada fan appreciation day).

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          • #65
            Originally posted by The Unseen
            Originally posted by Jughead10
            Football stadiums should always be sold out. Plain and simple. It is the easiest and most affordable sport to own season tickets in.
            Huh?

            Now, while I think Jacksonville should support the team and sell out the seats, but easiest and affordable? I definitely doubt that. It's cheap in Jacksonville, but most everyone else it's an arm and a leg to get a good seat.
            there are relatively few tickets to buy (8 at, the league average of 63$ a pop, compared to 81 at 20? for baseball, and whatever the numbers are for basketball). he didn't say it was easy to buy tickets, but that the sport should be the easiest way to afford a set of season tickets out of the three majors.

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            • #66
              I'd say Buffalo is in deeper sh-t than Jacksonville. Toronto with it's 16 million regional population is very attractive and might be the NFL's 1st step towards making the game international.
              And proud of it!!!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by njx9
                Originally posted by The Unseen
                Originally posted by Jughead10
                Football stadiums should always be sold out. Plain and simple. It is the easiest and most affordable sport to own season tickets in.
                Huh?

                Now, while I think Jacksonville should support the team and sell out the seats, but easiest and affordable? I definitely doubt that. It's cheap in Jacksonville, but most everyone else it's an arm and a leg to get a good seat.
                there are relatively few tickets to buy (8 at, the league average of 63$ a pop, compared to 81 at 20? for baseball, and whatever the numbers are for basketball). he didn't say it was easy to buy tickets, but that the sport should be the easiest way to afford a set of season tickets out of the three majors.
                Basically that is what I was saying. I am on the list for Giants season tickets. I won't get them for another 40 years ( ) but if they called tomorrow I could afford them at a relatively young age and average salary. The games are basically every other sunday. So it wouldn't take up all my time like 41 home basketball/hockey games or 81 baseball games. Also it is technically 10 games because they make you pay for the preseason. So one season ticket at the league average is about $630, Lets bump it up even to $700 for error/round number purposes.

                So lets say a football stadium does go up in Oklahoma City. There should be enough people within a 2 hour radius in any direction who can fork over $700 dollars a year to fill lets say a 65,000 seat stadium. The only problem with OK City is that I would assume most of them are already Cowboy fans.

                The bottom line is at the age of 23, I can financially afford to own Giants season tickets if the waiting list wasn't 40 years long. I can't do the same for the Yankees, Knicks, or Rangers.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by bearsfan_51
                  Originally posted by yourfavestoner
                  Originally posted by Jughead10
                  Originally posted by bearsfan_51
                  Originally posted by Splat420
                  The Chiefs are in small market and have one of the bigger stadium's in the NFL Seating Capacity 79,451 it can be done.
                  Kansas City draws from all over the place though. If you like in Kansas, Oklahoma, or Nebraska you're just as likely to be a Chiefs fan as anything else.

                  Jacksonville basically draws from Northern Florida and that's it. It was an awful move to put a football team there in the first place. That being said, I think the Bills are the worst-placed team in the NFL, and I would keep a close on on the rumors of them eventually moving to Toronto.
                  Buffalo has some die hard fans though. Their fan base is not even close to as bad as Jacksonville.
                  Like I said, it usually takes generations for a team to build a solid bond with its city. It's a major sociological issue that I think gets overlooked when analyzing fan bases. If you think about it, the first generation of the fan base for an expansion team is people who have never had a pro team in their city before, and don't have a real attachment to the team. When the team first comes, buying tickets to the game is just the newest "fad" and after a few losing seasons, that fad wears off - just like any other ones. The die hard fans will come as the kids who grow up with the team and are more "die hard" fans get old enough to become season ticket holders.

                  Think about all of the teams who have what's considered a "die hard" fan base. The ones that usually come to mind the most quickly are the Bears, Packers, Steelers, and Giants - all teams that have been in the league since the 1930s.
                  It has just as much to do, if not more, with geography. It's warm in Florida. You can go to the beach. You can't do *********** in Pittsburgh or Cleveland. Trust me.
                  I like Pittsburgh
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFpnxVrT8Js

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by steelernation77
                    I like Pittsburgh
                    And may god have mercy on your soul...

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Iamcanadian
                      I'd say Buffalo is in deeper sh-t than Jacksonville. Toronto with it's 16 million regional population is very attractive and might be the NFL's 1st step towards making the game international.
                      Honestly I think Toronto is best case scenario for Bills fans. It's only like an hour drive isn't it? They would still be in the home market and making the trip to Bills games wouldn't be a problem at all.


                      Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Jughead10
                        Originally posted by njx9
                        Originally posted by The Unseen
                        Originally posted by Jughead10
                        Football stadiums should always be sold out. Plain and simple. It is the easiest and most affordable sport to own season tickets in.
                        Huh?

                        Now, while I think Jacksonville should support the team and sell out the seats, but easiest and affordable? I definitely doubt that. It's cheap in Jacksonville, but most everyone else it's an arm and a leg to get a good seat.
                        there are relatively few tickets to buy (8 at, the league average of 63$ a pop, compared to 81 at 20? for baseball, and whatever the numbers are for basketball). he didn't say it was easy to buy tickets, but that the sport should be the easiest way to afford a set of season tickets out of the three majors.
                        Basically that is what I was saying. I am on the list for Giants season tickets. I won't get them for another 40 years ( ) but if they called tomorrow I could afford them at a relatively young age and average salary. The games are basically every other sunday. So it wouldn't take up all my time like 41 home basketball/hockey games or 81 baseball games. Also it is technically 10 games because they make you pay for the preseason. So one season ticket at the league average is about $630, Lets bump it up even to $700 for error/round number purposes.

                        So lets say a football stadium does go up in Oklahoma City. There should be enough people within a 2 hour radius in any direction who can fork over $700 dollars a year to fill lets say a 65,000 seat stadium. The only problem with OK City is that I would assume most of them are already Cowboy fans.

                        The bottom line is at the age of 23, I can financially afford to own Giants season tickets if the waiting list wasn't 40 years long. I can't do the same for the Yankees, Knicks, or Rangers.
                        The biggest issues is local advertising revenue and media market. Just because they could feasible fill a stadium doesn't mean there would be anyone else left around to watch the game on television. The market is just too small. Filling the stadium is only a very small part of the equation.


                        Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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                        • #72
                          I still honestly think they should send a team to Toronto. It's the fifth largest city in North America, and it would also want a football team. Also, if Toronto got a team it would immediately become "Canada's Team," giving it a fan base of almost every football watcher in Canada.

                          I just think it would be good for the NFL in so many ways.

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                          • #73
                            NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Although Canada is home to the best sports nickname in all of sports, Vancouver Canucks.
                            I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                            Hunter S. Thompson

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by someone447
                              NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Although Canada is home to the best sports nickname in all of sports, Vancouver Canucks.

                              I beg to differ.


                              Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by eacantdraft
                                Originally posted by yourfavestoner
                                Originally posted by Jughead10
                                So what does this atricle really saying? The NFL screwed up when even putting a team in Jacksonville in the first place?
                                You could certainly make that case, as Jacksonville is the league's smallest market and has the smallest fan base. However, it usually takes generations for a team and a city to establish a bond that results in a large and dedicated fan base. I also think the fact that the Jaguars have been able to sell out their stadium, despite having the smallest market and fan base, is a testament to the people of Jacksonville, as they have a much smaller pool of fans to work with. The biggest mistake they made when putting a team in Jacksonville was making the stadium far too large to sell out in a small market.

                                Like I said, this isn't a Jaguars-only issue. There are a number small market teams around the league who have this same problem.
                                Jacksonville is not the smallest market in the NFL. Green Bay is, by far. Green Bay has 100,000, Jacksonville metro has over a million and is growing very fast. Green Bay is successful because of a long winning tradition.

                                Has it ever occured to anyone that Jacksonville may be a college football town? Both Florida and Florida State is within a reasonable driving distance. Both storied programs. Not everyone is thrilled with pro sports.

                                On to Buffalo. Once Ralph Wilson passes on, that team may be in trouble. Buffalo's population is shrinking, poor, and old. It doesn't have much of a base to draw on. The best scenario is to probably play one or two regular season games in Toronto (they really should play in Canada on Canada fan appreciation day).
                                Jacksonville is officially second-smallest, with Green Bay being the smallest. However, the situation in Green Bay is unique. Although Green Bay is the smallest market in the league, it has Milwaukee right down the road. The Packers played home games in both cities for a lot of years and had ticket offices in both cities. The Packers also draw from across the entire state of Wisconsin.

                                Calling Jacksonville a college football city is also a myth. Jacksonville routinely has some of the highest television ratings for NFL games in the entire country. There's definite interest, but they don't get statewide support like a lot of teams in the league. They're pigeonholed in north Florida, and there are already established fan bases for Tampa and Miami down south, and there are the Falcons to the north in Georgia.

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