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Senator To Commissioner: Explain Destroyed Tapes

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  • #31
    keep in mind that Sen. Spector was part of a little well known group called the Warren Commission. If memory serves me correctly, they were the geniuses who came up with the "magic bullet theory" in the JFK assassination. This guy knows all about the art of the cover up scandal since he was obviously involved with covering up one of the biggest stories in American history.

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    • #32
      Here's the better question: Why keep the tapes?

      The tapes contained information in which the NFL does not want to get out to the public or any other NFL teams. So why keep a handful of tapes locked up somewhere for no reason at all? I'm sure Roger Goodell has better use of his storage space...

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        About the dumbest thing I've ever read. More upstart leagues? Losing out on money from cable companies? Bickering among players? Are you serious?

        So now all of a sudden because there is no anti-trust in place, all long standing business practices performed by the NFL will cease to exist? Just poof, up and gone? I seriously doubt that. None of that would change, and when those legal, binding contracts are up, new ones would follow.

        Businesses exist in this country without anti-trust. Every professional football league that has tried to compete with the NFL has failed, and it has had absolutely nothing to do with any anti-trust. There would be no bickering over how to distribute earnings, because the league and the union decide those things over collective bargaining. Does their service agreement all of a sudden disappear?

        Boo hoo. The NFL didn't get back to you about your precious letter. Did you even listen to what the clown had to say? He said that the NFL took games that were already scheduled and rearranged the schedule so that they could broadcast on their own network. That's kind of funny, because I remember all of those games being scheduled as such at the beginning of the season. Mr. Spector really should do a better job of getting his facts straight, especially if he wants to go toe to toe with the NFL.

        This is total grandstanding. He's got sand in his vagina because he got blown off and now he's huffing and puffing, conveniently, during the NFL's biggest week of the year. What difference does it make to him if a companies employee broke one of the companies policy? Again, I'd like to know if he's going to bring me in for a senate hearing because I've been dicking around on the internet at work, when it is a clear violation of my companies policy. Or maybe they should bring in my banker because he was a half hour late for work?

        It's ridiculous. The NFL is a business and handled the disciplinary action on their own. They don't need to explain anything to anyone. They can operate their business as they see fit. Last time I checked, there are no laws against destroying video tapes.

        They got rid of them because they got rid of them. It was probably for the good of the game. Who cares? We all know what was on it. Fox showed us. I've said from the beginning the whole thing is stupid, and I think it's even dumber today, especially after people like Jimmy Johnson have come out and said that he did the same thing with the Chiefs, Dolphins and even while winning Super Bowls with the Cowboys. Yet no one wants to hear that. So whatever.

        And you say no surprise that I'm a Pats fan, well, shock of the day that you're a Jets fan. Funny how that works...

        The only reason what i wrote seems dumb to you is becuase you are so incredibly ill informed it's almost pointless to respond to you..but I will, because I don't want anyone else being fooled to thinking your correct.

        First off, the NFL was granted a limited antitrust law exemption, because football teams "are so important to their hometowns." If at any point the Senate JUDICIARY COMMITTEE (whos one of their main jobs is to handle antitrust laws..especially MULTIBILLION dollar ones) thinks that Goodell is soiling the integrity of the game than they have an obligation to the american people to do something about. See, ill map it out for ya; the NFL was given the exemption to provide a service to the American people and if at any point the integrity of this service is being sullied than the Senate has the power to take it away. I don't care if it's the pats doing it the broncos doing it or the jets doing it, the bottom line is as a Football fan this is bad news. The Senate already has a legitimate claim that the NFL is abusing their power to limit the distribution of games to certain people. Why give them any more reason to look into it??

        The point about burning the tapes that makes it such a hassel is now the senate has NO idea what was on it. If it was nothing than that could easily have been avoided, but because it was burned and destroyed that just perpetuates the idea that something shady was going on. What if they wanted to subpoena a league official, player etc. becuase of what they saw on the tapes?? well now they can't because the tapes are burned and that my friend is called obstruction of justice. If you were able to read what he said with an objectional mind you would see Specter isn't speaking irrationally, but quite coherently. I dismissed it as grandstanding first, however this isn't the first time that he's mentioned taking away the NFLs antitrust exemption, he's been doing it for months.


        I have no idea if other upstart leagues will pop up, but it is certainly a possibility; there are hundreds of players who are unable to make it to the NFL who could join this league. There have been a few attempts and in the law suite against the NFL the USFL lost only because their management was lousy; the NFL was deemed a monopoly. If you get someone who knows what they're doing it certainly is a possibility.

        MY biggest concern is for the younger players entering the NFL. If they have their exemption waved than players right out of highschool could be seduced into trying out for the NFL instead of going to college. The NFL, even though acting in the best interest of the players, are technically violating our free market beliefs. Becuase the NFL has a monopoly over professional football they restrict a "professional" from getting his career. The young player is losing out on valuable years where he could be making money by sitting out of highschool.

        Even though it is an extreme violation of free market practice, I beleive the players sitting out 3 years is in their best interest, but this could become erroneous of the antitrust exemption is waved.

        Also, the CBA is going to end the year after next and there will not be one like this one i can guarantee that.


        This isn't a personal attack at you or the patriots, I just want everyone to see this doesn't affect you or just the pats it affects all of us as NFL fans. Instead of blindly defending the pats and insulting the Senator, you probably should take a step back and say..'wow this could have terrible consequences on the league and us as fans.' It doesn't matter what team did it all that matters is that something was done to cause the Senator to speak out and could be the beginning of a nasty ordeal.
        Last edited by BroadwayJoe10; 02-02-2008, 09:49 PM.

        "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

        Comment


        • #34
          Come on now am I to believe that the single most hard @$$ed commish in NFL history is now softballing the pats this time? I don't believe it. And obstruction of justice pertains only when a crime is committed last I checked filming in football is not a federal crime.
          Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji


          DEATH NOTE MAFIA SIGNUP!

          Originally posted by njx9
          oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.

          Comment


          • #35
            The thing about this whole deal that baffles me is what business is it of some senator that the commissioner has to explain his policy to him? The NFL is its own business, what does destroying some tapes have to do with antitrust laws? Why does the senate care so much about this minor inhouse deal anyways?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by broth223 View Post
              Come on now am I to believe that the single most hard @$$ed commish in NFL history is now softballing the pats this time? I don't believe it. And obstruction of justice pertains only when a crime is committed last I checked filming in football is not a federal crime.

              Actually, obstruction of justice has nothing to do with whether or not a law is broken, although usually it coincides with a broken law. It is anytime someone, citizen or government official, interferes with any type of police-work investigators or other usually government official. So yes, if there was something that was on that tape that Specter wanted to see, it most certainly could be considered an obstruction on Goodell's behalf.

              This all could have been solved if the tapes were still around and the Senator was allowed to view them. But, becuase they were destroyed, the only thing one can do is speculate. The whole destruction seems a bit shady. I honestly hope nothing comes of it, because I don't want to see football tainted. It was meant as a time of the week where no matter your class/race etc. you could sit down and enjoy your favorite teams football game. It's crap that politics is now infultrating our beloved sport; maybe Goodell will learn better than to sweep the comments of a senator under the rug, as crotchety specter may be.

              "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by keylime_5 View Post
                The thing about this whole deal that baffles me is what business is it of some senator that the commissioner has to explain his policy to him? The NFL is its own business, what does destroying some tapes have to do with antitrust laws? Why does the senate care so much about this minor inhouse deal anyways?
                the antitrust laws allow them to get around the draft or something to that effect

                cred 2 BoneKrusher

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Patriots-Lions View Post
                  Here's the better question: Why keep the tapes?

                  The tapes contained information in which the NFL does not want to get out to the public or any other NFL teams. So why keep a handful of tapes locked up somewhere for no reason at all? I'm sure Roger Goodell has better use of his storage space...
                  exactly.

                  why should goodell keep the tapes?

                  just turn them over to fox so we can all have a look and get all this ugly stuff behind us.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
                    The only reason what i wrote seems dumb to you is becuase you are so incredibly ill informed it's almost pointless to respond to you..but I will, because I don't want anyone else being fooled to thinking your correct.

                    First off, the NFL was granted a limited antitrust law exemption, because football teams "are so important to their hometowns." If at any point the Senate JUDICIARY COMMITTEE (whos one of their main jobs is to handle antitrust laws..especially MULTIBILLION dollar ones) thinks that Goodell is soiling the integrity of the game than they have an obligation to the american people to do something about. See, ill map it out for ya; the NFL was given the exemption to provide a service to the American people and if at any point the integrity of this service is being sullied than the Senate has the power to take it away. I don't care if it's the pats doing it the broncos doing it or the jets doing it, the bottom line is as a Football fan this is bad news. The Senate already has a legitimate claim that the NFL is abusing their power to limit the distribution of games to certain people. Why give them any more reason to look into it??
                    There is no justice to obstruct. It is a company enforcing company policy. Period. The NFL doesn't have to explain how they conduct their business. Anti-trust or not, they can and will continue to conduct their business as they see fit.

                    By your theory, Pacman Jones should be able to ask for his case to be heard in front of congress. We both know that is completely ridiculous and would never happen. But how is the way the commissioner disciplined one party any different then the way he disciplined another?

                    The point about burning the tapes that makes it such a hassel is now the senate has NO idea what was on it. If it was nothing than that could easily have been avoided, but because it was burned and destroyed that just perpetuates the idea that something shady was going on. What if they wanted to subpoena a league official, player etc. becuase of what they saw on the tapes?? well now they can't because the tapes are burned and that my friend is called obstruction of justice. If you were able to read what he said with an objectional mind you would see Specter isn't speaking irrationally, but quite coherently.
                    And you're the king of objectivity? I am pretty sure you are one of the very same Jets fans that got all pissed when I laughed at your offseason thread in which you all thought you would win the AFC East, or at the very least, were very close. It's funny how completely hilarious that thread looks 6 months later. You want the Pats to be the bad guy, just as much as I want this to be over. So save it.

                    Furthermore, I am sure whenever the NFL makes a decision on how they are going to conduct their business, the very first thing they think of is "what if congress wants to take a look at this." Quite frankly, it's none of their business. How they run their network and choose to televise their product is none of their business either.

                    I dismissed it as grandstanding first, however this isn't the first time that he's mentioned taking away the NFLs antitrust exemption, he's been doing it for months.
                    So if I said the boogeyman was coming to get me for months, would it be believable a few months later because I've been saying it for a long time?

                    I have no idea if other upstart leagues will pop up, but it is certainly a possibility; there are hundreds of players who are unable to make it to the NFL who could join this league. There have been a few attempts and in the law suite against the NFL the USFL lost only because their management was lousy; the NFL was deemed a monopoly. If you get someone who knows what they're doing it certainly is a possibility.
                    The NFL is not a monopoly. Comcast is a monopoly. If I want cable in Philadelphia and want to go with Time Warner, I can't, because Comcast is the only option. The NFL is a company no one has chosen to compete against. If I open a bank and become the only bank in my town because no one else decides to open and compete, that doesn't make me a monopoly. That is such a loose translation, and it just doesn't work.

                    MY biggest concern is for the younger players entering the NFL. If they have their exemption waved than players right out of highschool could be seduced into trying out for the NFL instead of going to college. The NFL, even though acting in the best interest of the players, are technically violating our free market beliefs. Becuase the NFL has a monopoly over professional football they restrict a "professional" from getting his career. The young player is losing out on valuable years where he could be making money by sitting out of highschool.

                    Even though it is an extreme violation of free market practice, I beleive the players sitting out 3 years is in their best interest, but this could become erroneous of the antitrust exemption is waved.
                    So then why can't I get a job as a pharmacist out of high school? Who are they to restrict a "professional" from getting a career? So what company and state policy says I have to have a doctorate in pharmacy from some college or university, I am ready now damn it.

                    That is such an extreme violation of free market practice.

                    Also, the CBA is going to end the year after next and there will not be one like this one i can guarantee that.
                    And? This has nothing to do with that. The CBA situation would have happened one way or another. The two are unrelated.

                    This isn't a personal attack at you or the patriots, I just want everyone to see this doesn't affect you or just the pats it affects all of us as NFL fans. Instead of blindly defending the pats and insulting the Senator, you probably should take a step back and say..'wow this could have terrible consequences on the league and us as fans.' It doesn't matter what team did it all that matters is that something was done to cause the Senator to speak out and could be the beginning of a nasty ordeal.
                    This isn't a personal attack against you or the Jets, I just want you to see that this doesn't just affect me and the Pats, it affects all of us as NFL fans. Instead of blindly defending the Senator because it will make you feel better about your season, you probably should take a step back and say "wow, this could have terrible consequences on the league and us as fans." It doesn't matter how many teams did it, all that matters is that something was done to cause the Senator to speak out and this could be the beginning of a total waste of tax payer dollars on something that was already resolved, done and over with.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
                      Actually, obstruction of justice has nothing to do with whether or not a law is broken, although usually it coincides with a broken law. It is anytime someone, citizen or government official, interferes with any type of police-work investigators or other usually government official. So yes, if there was something that was on that tape that Specter wanted to see, it most certainly could be considered an obstruction on Goodell's behalf.

                      This all could have been solved if the tapes were still around and the Senator was allowed to view them. But, becuase they were destroyed, the only thing one can do is speculate. The whole destruction seems a bit shady. I honestly hope nothing comes of it, because I don't want to see football tainted. It was meant as a time of the week where no matter your class/race etc. you could sit down and enjoy your favorite teams football game. It's crap that politics is now infultrating our beloved sport; maybe Goodell will learn better than to sweep the comments of a senator under the rug, as crotchety specter may be.
                      That's not 100% accurate according to http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...0_I_20_73.html
                      there has to be an investigation in progress. As of my knowledge there isn't any current (federal or otherwise) investigation nor any civil trial pending to which these tapes would be relevant. Maybe I misread the site but it doesn't seem like any criminal charges can be placed on Goodell.
                      Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji


                      DEATH NOTE MAFIA SIGNUP!

                      Originally posted by njx9
                      oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cashmoneydrew View Post
                        This is rediculous. I think Congress has just a few other things to worry about then the NFL....
                        America has some bigger problems today than people cheating in the NFL. Completely agree this senator just looking for attention havent even heard of this guy before.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by broth223 View Post
                          That's not 100% accurate according to http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...0_I_20_73.html
                          there has to be an investigation in progress. As of my knowledge there isn't any current (federal or otherwise) investigation nor any civil trial pending to which these tapes would be relevant. Maybe I misread the site but it doesn't seem like any criminal charges can be placed on Goodell.
                          I never said it was obstruction of justice, just the fact that IF the senator wanted to subpoena someone from what he saw on the tape now he cannot becuase it was destroyed. There may not be an investigation at all, but if there is and the senator wanted to view the tapes than it could be considered it. I was only mentioning the possibility that's all.

                          "When it's third and ten, you can take the milk drinkers and I'll take the whiskey drinkers every time."

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BroadwayJoe10 View Post
                            Not only the patriots organization, but the NFL in general. After I looked into this matter further it isn't as much grandstanding on the behalf of the senator as I thought. I was unaware that he had spoked out against the NFL in the past few months, most notably about the television packages the NFL runs. If Goodell did indeed destroy credible evidence of past cheating than he and the Pats could have mucked it up for the rest of the NFL reall good and Specter is right on the money.

                            He said he was going to introduce legislation in the next session in hopes of eliminating the league's freedom from antitrust laws and if it turns out that Goodell did indeed destroy important documents that taints The patriots, than the Senate could have more ammo to strip the NFL of their antitrust exemption. If you think that the senate should have somethign better to do Ie. healthcare, school systems etc. than your looking at the wrong branch of the senate. This is the Sentiate Judiciary Committe and one of their jobs is to uphold the antitrust laws and we are lucky that the NFL still has one. If they get rid of it you can wave goodbye to players staying in college for 3 years, you'll see more upstart leagues, the NFL will lose out on money with the cable companies and than that will only cause more bickering amongst the players of how they distribute the earnings for the year etc.

                            There is plenty of presedence already set as well; a few years ago the Senate said that the NFL was acting as a monopoly, which obviously we would be due to the antitrust exmeption, during the USFL law suite and the maurice clarett law suite. In 2007 the senate passed Railroad Antitrust Enforcement Act of 2007 stating that they had provided unreliable services while charging unfair prices etc. There aren't too many competing leagues against the NFL, but there certainly have been those who have tried.

                            Bottom line is, that the NFL has unrestrained monopoly power and if they wish to keep it they will need to avoid things like spygate and the like.
                            I still don't get how any of this matters. How they dealt with an internal rules violation does not affect there anti trust situation. One does not affect the other. The judiciary comitte has jurisdiction in regard to matters that would create unfair advantage for the NFL against its competition, not within in its own members.

                            Spector is a blow hard, as all politicians ( including my home state, aforementioned John Kerry) are. He needs to focus his few remaining efforts on cleaning up corruption in his own field of operation.

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