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Why delay it? Eli vs. Ben vs. Rivers

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  • Originally posted by AlexDown View Post
    Big Ben is better and more productive then Eli Manning?
    And you would think I would have some more cred here after I made everybody look silly on the Osi vs. Peppers debate.

    Ah the joys of talking football with kids who watch their favorite team and an occasional nationally televised contest.
    Originally posted by Paul
    Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
    Originally posted by Vikes99ej
    These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
      Ben at his worst is worse than Eli at his worse.


      are you serious about this?? I dont buy it, Eli at his worse is far worse then anything ive seen Ben be...and that was not that long ago either


      Eli's picks have went up every year since he has been the full time starter, fumbles lost has went up, and his best qb rating is 77...


      In fact, for this entire regular season Eli has been sporadic and turned the ball over plenty...I dont think Ben has played as bad as Eli has vs the vikes, or even the bills for that matter...even in 2006 in bens bad year





      Originally posted by Scott Wright
      I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.

      Comment


      • The most impressive feat by any of the '04 class is what Philip Rivers did in this year's post-season. He is a warrior, accurate, and smart. I like the way he plays the most, but I realize that I am in the minority with that opinion.

        Comment


        • Next year, Eli Manning will come into his own as the best QB in the NFL.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
            And you prove my point I made in your thread.

            Thanks-
            and u make yourself look like a lieing homer who just wants to get eli out there... PLEASE TELL ME WHY if u think they are even, u would choose big ben? youre gonna tell me as a giants fan, a guy who has eli all over his sig and a guy who made his username after eli im guessing, the fan of the guy who just brought you a superbowl that you would still take ben? and u even say that u think if eli does better than 2008 that its a different ballgame. so if he doesnt then ben is better but if he does eli is better if i can infer that. so then there it is completely stupid to say that u have them dead even


            Stedman Bailey 2012 Stat Tracker:
            12 Games, 106 Rec, 1501 yards, 23 TD's

            Steddy Ambition!
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnISzeG2Ao

            Comment


            • Originally posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
              are you serious about this?? I dont buy it, Eli at his worse is far worse then anything ive seen Ben be...and that was not that long ago either


              Eli's picks have went up every year since he has been the full time starter, fumbles lost has went up, and his best qb rating is 77...


              In fact, for this entire regular season Eli has been sporadic and turned the ball over plenty...I dont think Ben has played as bad as Eli has vs the vikes, or even the bills for that matter...even in 2006 in bens bad year
              I remember watching Ben's first three games in 2006 and that was a worse 3 week stretch than Eli has ever had.
              Originally posted by Paul
              Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
              Originally posted by Vikes99ej
              These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
              MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

              Comment


              • Originally posted by awfullyquiet View Post
                Too shortsighted.

                Palmer is a better quarterback playing with no defense. Ergo, sure the wins don't pile up, and he's never on the field. He's better though... Uglier. Yes. but better.
                Bulger had a ****** year. He had less of and Oline than you have ever seen. And a defense as bad as... no. not THAT bad. brees is the only one i'll give you that might be on the same category as ben. but there's still two at least ahead of him that'd kick him out. and maybe *gasp* a healthy mcnabb. or derek anderson being good actually. i'd really like to see ben next year. i don't think he's going to be anywhere near as good. he'll be pretty good. but production? oh noes. no starks, or faneca, mean you'll be looking like the chicago bears. all filler, no killer.
                I think Ben is creeping up to #5. Heck there were 4 different NFL Analysts that were ranking Ben as top 5 (Cowher at 3, Esaison at 4.. I forget who the other 2 were).

                Derek Anderson has 1 good year behind one of the best Lines in football and he's on Ben's level?

                Perhaps you're being a little too shortsided. Eli has had 1 great postseason run and even then he was average.


                Eli has never cracked 60% completion rate over a season.
                (Bens career: 63.2% Season: 66.4%)

                Eli has never had a YPA over 6.9
                (Bens Career: 8.1, Season: 8.9 *twice*)

                Eli has never had a TD:INT Ratio of 2:1 or better.
                (Ben has this season.. nearly 3:1(32:11), and his 2005 season was almost 2:1 (17:9))

                Eli has never had a Season rating of 77.1 or better.
                (Ben has 3 times, 98.1 as a rookie (#5 in the league), 98.6 (#3 as a soph), 104.1 (4th season #2 in the league))

                Even with Eli throwing over 1800 attempts, Ben has 288 more yards passing on nearly 400 less attempts.

                Eli has fumbled the ball 34 times in his career losing 12.

                Ben has fumbled 18 times, losing 8.

                Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                  The most impressive feat by any of the '04 class is what Philip Rivers did in this year's post-season. He is a warrior, accurate, and smart. I like the way he plays the most, but I realize that I am in the minority with that opinion.
                  I like the way he plays too. But doing more with more is expected. He basically tore it up against Colts. Did better than mediocre against the Titans.

                  I think he's a good, intelligent quarterback who plays with a good supporting cast. Chargers fans can't complain about the QB position... they have a solid starter. but i don't think will ever be a 'great' starter. ben has that upside still IMO.
                  http://i38.tinypic.com/2aj2s7t.jpg
                  For a good time call (303) 499-7111.whitspacsig by steel man

                  United: "I actually went to the college I root for"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by 703SKINS202 View Post
                    and u make yourself look like a lieing homer who just wants to get eli out there... PLEASE TELL ME WHY if u think they are even, u would choose big ben? youre gonna tell me as a giants fan, a guy who has eli all over his sig and a guy who made his username after eli im guessing, the fan of the guy who just brought you a superbowl that you would still take ben? and u even say that u think if eli does better than 2008 that its a different ballgame. so if he doesnt then ben is better but if he does eli is better if i can infer that. so then there it is completely stupid to say that u have them dead even
                    I hope you are either 12 years old or really drunk...or both.

                    Let me get this straight.....

                    I am a homer because I would take Big Ben over Eli if I had a gun to my head and had to pick one? You know I am a Giants fan, right?

                    I am a Giants fan, elated that we are THE Super Bowl Champs, and that a QB I have been pulling for is a Super Bowl legend. Putting what others say about him in my sig pertaining to his Super Bowl performance makes me a homer? I think you Skins fans are so used to being called homers that you try to accuse others of being one at the slightest of opportunities.

                    I am sitting here, telling you that this 5 game stretch of Eli's does not throw him into an elite status, and then he is even with Ben. You accused me of saying that I thought he was better...which I never did and you acknowledged that after I told you to try reading...and I'm a homer?

                    You make zero, zero sense.
                    Originally posted by Paul
                    Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                    Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                    These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                    MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                    Comment


                    • I think the thing with Rivers is that he is extremely limited physically. Weak arm, no mobility....

                      His brains and accuracy are and always will be there, but I don't think he will ever be able to reach that elite status. His upside isn't as high IMO.
                      Originally posted by Paul
                      Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                      Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                      These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                      MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                        I hope you are either 12 years old or really drunk...or both.

                        Let me get this straight.....

                        I am a homer because I would take Big Ben over Eli if I had a gun to my head and had to pick one? You know I am a Giants fan, right?

                        I am a Giants fan, elated that we are THE Super Bowl Champs, and that a QB I have been pulling for is a Super Bowl legend. Putting what others say about him in my sig pertaining to his Super Bowl performance makes me a homer? I think you Skins fans are so used to being called homers that you try to accuse others of being one at the slightest of opportunities.

                        I am sitting here, telling you that this 5 game stretch of Eli's does not throw him into an elite status, and then he is even with Ben. You accused me of saying that I thought he was better...which I never did and you acknowledged that after I told you to try reading...and I'm a homer?

                        You make zero, zero sense.
                        gun to ur head why would u take ben if he wasnt better than eli if ur a giants/eli lover... THATS THE POINT IM TRYING TO MAKE WHY DONT U READ, i called u a liar for that reason which proves your a dumb homer that created this thread to promote eli or some other hidden reason which you will never allude to


                        Stedman Bailey 2012 Stat Tracker:
                        12 Games, 106 Rec, 1501 yards, 23 TD's

                        Steddy Ambition!
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnISzeG2Ao

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mr. Stiller View Post
                          I think Ben is creeping up to #5. Heck there were 4 different NFL Analysts that were ranking Ben as top 5 (Cowher at 3, Esaison at 4.. I forget who the other 2 were).

                          Derek Anderson has 1 good year behind one of the best Lines in football and he's on Ben's level?

                          Perhaps you're being a little too shortsided. Eli has had 1 great postseason run and even then he was average.
                          their opinions.

                          When i say what i did. I was talking not necessarly today...
                          like i'm not going to call anderson a great QB. but he has potential to be pretty darn good...
                          eli had one great post-season. so did jake delhomme... *shrugs*
                          i don't get it. I'm not demeaning his accomplishments, but he did a fantastic job. sure. i'm just saying. the superbowl wouldn't mean all that much. i hate to always bring it to the bears. but, as a great example, rex grossman, if they would have won last year, and we had this conversation this time last year, we would have had him in this conversation. when clearly, he shouldn't be, as this year drastically proved. mediocre seasons and a good post season do not make quarterback elite. how did eli fare the previous two years in the post season? ******. ******. ******. one good year, and go crown his ass. he did something. played a great game. he's not. that. good. i am a firm believer that season play > post season play.

                          and i am saying eli isn't as good as ben. i hope you saw that.
                          http://i38.tinypic.com/2aj2s7t.jpg
                          For a good time call (303) 499-7111.whitspacsig by steel man

                          United: "I actually went to the college I root for"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 703SKINS202 View Post
                            gun to ur head why would u take ben if he wasnt better than eli if ur a giants/eli lover... THATS THE POINT IM TRYING TO MAKE WHY DONT U READ, i called u a liar for that reason which proves your a dumb homer that created this thread to promote eli or some other hidden reason which you will never allude to
                            I cheer for Eli more than I do Ben.

                            Ben and Eli are on the same level in my eyes, just like Brady and Peyton are. But if I had to pick one, I would take Ben.

                            Just because I am a Giants fan does not mean I will go with Eli at every chance there is.

                            I created this thread because this is a debate that will live on for years and it brings solid discussion to the table when guys like you don't show up.

                            Let's be honest here...you are still bitter about the Giants winning the Super Bowl. And you wanted me to choose Eli over Ben in the worst way so you could hand the homer label over to somebody else. Sorry bud...try with someone else.

                            This was a simple discussion until you came in with your incredibly idiotic conspiracy theories....good lord.
                            Originally posted by Paul
                            Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                            Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                            These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                            MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                              I cheer for Eli more than I do Ben.

                              Ben and Eli are on the same level in my eyes, just like Brady and Peyton are. But if I had to pick one, I would take Ben.

                              Just because I am a Giants fan does not mean I will go with Eli at every chance there is.

                              I created this thread because this is a debate that will live on for years and it brings solid discussion to the table when guys like you don't show up.

                              Let's be honest here...you are still bitter about the Giants winning the Super Bowl. And you wanted me to choose Eli over Ben in the worst way so you could hand the homer label over to somebody else. Sorry bud...try with someone else.

                              This was a simple discussion until you came in with your incredibly idiotic conspiracy theories....good lord.
                              no no no, you are still avoiding the point... if u have eli and ben even like u do brady and peyton then how do you justify choosing ben? please just answer this in a logical way, all homerism claims aside... im just trying to point out that you are making no sense right now


                              Stedman Bailey 2012 Stat Tracker:
                              12 Games, 106 Rec, 1501 yards, 23 TD's

                              Steddy Ambition!
                              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnISzeG2Ao

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Number 10 View Post
                                I remember watching Ben's first three games in 2006 and that was a worse 3 week stretch than Eli has ever had.
                                Ben shouldn't have played.

                                The sad thing is..though..

                                those 3 games:

                                Ben: 55/102, 53.9%, 569 yards, 7 INT's. 41.7 QB Rating.

                                But Bens first 3 games starting as a rookie:

                                45/67, 568 yards, 67.2%. 3 TD, 2 INT, 1 rushing TD, 95.9 QB Rating

                                Elis first 3 starting as a rookie:

                                35/83, 423 yards, 42.1%, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 42.4 QB rating....

                                Eli's rookie season games 2-4:

                                22/64, 34.4%, 288 yards 4 INTs.. 23.5 QB Rating.

                                Care to rethink that stance?

                                Bens worst 3 game stretch, with 53.9% completion and 41.7 QB Rating... almost mirror eli's entire career.

                                Eli over his career is a 54.7% passer....

                                So Bens worst stretch is nearly equal to Eli's career in terms of accuracy? Odd.

                                Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

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