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Jimmy Johnson: I videotaped signals

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dam8610 View Post
    Please, quit feigning ignorance in an attempt to defend your team, it's annoying and it makes you look foolish. Studies have shown that uneducated guesswork is right about 22% of the time. Obviously a football coach is going to be able to make an educated guess, but it's still a guess, until you bring film in, where you can sync up calls to plays on the field, and, being an educated coach, figure out what each signal means fairly easily. Again, it's the difference between guesswork and study, the latter of which gives a definite competitive advantage.
    It's all guesswork. Period. Unless you are standing next to the coach and he tells you "oh by the way, this is what we are doing".... IT'S GUESSWORK!!!

    Stealing is stealing is stealing is stealing. Why do teams send advance scouts to games to steal signals early? Why do teams put multiple people on the sidelines to send in signals (in games that aren't against the Patriots too)? Why do teams practice in their indoor practice facilities in beautiful weather? Why dedicate any time whatsoever to stealing signs?

    There are a lot of questions that can be asked. You're assuming you know what the Patriots did with that video. You have no proof.

    Stealing signals, no matter how it is done, is wrong. Period. If you don't agree that it is wrong, then you have no problem with the Patriots using every method possible to steal signals. Because I guarantee they still do it... every way they can.

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    • #47
      Honestly Jay, just stop. It's getting really really old. You are not going to change anybodies opinions or thoughts about this whole thing, so just quit.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Dam8610 View Post
        Wow, that's quite a blanket statement, especially using one man's word as your only proof. You have no proof that what he's saying is true, whereas proof has been there (before it was destroyed) that the Pats cheated. My question to you would be if the Colts did it, why would Bill Polian have banned cameras from the sidelines of the 2006 AFC
        Championship Game?
        I don't need proof that what he is saying is true. He has absolutely zero reason to tarnish his reputation by VOLUNTEERING that information. He has absolutely nothing to gain. NOTHING. He is coming out and admitting that he broke an NFL rule, and no one even asked him. What incentive does he have in doing that? Why would he do that when he can keep his mouth shut and never have to answer the question? You want to talk about ignorance, here is the ignorance at its finest. And this is why YOU are the fool.

        What did the NFL do with the Broncos tapes? I want answers.

        Maybe they were destroyed as part of the condition for the Patriots turning them over to the league since the league proved they couldn't control it what happens inside their own office.

        Bill Polian can do whatever he wants in his stadium. It's his house. Just like the Steelers can stick with a natural grass surface even though it has been proven that it effects game play, and just like the Patriots were able to do the same every time they played the Colts in Foxboro.

        Why didn't Bill Polian set up a sting in 2006 if he knew the Patriots were doing it? God knows there isn't a man on the face of the earth that detests the Patriots as much as him. Oh that's right, because nobody cared.

        Also, what's with the Patriots' Director of Football Research, a position no other team in the NFL has, who is involved in all Patriots football filming projects and has a direct line to Belichick every gameday?
        WHY. DO. YOU. CARE? I have it on good authority that the Patriots also have a Dirctor of Janitory Services, which is also a position no other team in the NFL has. MAYBE WE SHOULD INVESTIGATE!

        He has a direct line because he can. Because it is in the NFL rule books. It doesn't matter what his job is or what his job entails him to do. He studies every ounce of game film possible and is said to have a photographic memory. He can see a formation and know what to expect. He doesn't need signals for any of that. I have no doubt that's why he is there, just as I have no doubt that Howard Mudd has his job because he does such a great job helping steal the other teams signals.

        GET OVER IT.

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        • #49
          Hmm...I'm just going to say that Jay seems to be the only one making sense here. If the Patriots dynasty is "tarnished" as some of you seem to believe, then wouldn't it be a given that you guys consider Dallas' superbowl victories "tarnished" as well?

          Personally, I could care less about the pats or the cowboys jacking signals.

          RIP ST

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          • #50
            Dear lord, and people wonder why Boston is considered annoying by many. Plain difference, the Pats were caught with evidence. unless u have something that goes with that, then leave it alone. You are the only one that keeps bringing this crap up. The Pats were punished, rightfully so, but for some reason a NE fan is the one that keeps bringing up the damn issue. Drop it already, your going no where, very slowly


            Courtesy of Fenikz - Much Appreciated

            Originally posted by dRaFtDoRk
            You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.

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            • #51
              the issue of tarnishing an image is all subjective. They will never put an asterisk or any of that crap in the record books, its all in people's heads what the image is. Simple fact, the Patriots image in my mind is tarnished, Dallas and what they did is a seperate issue. By no means are you going to clear the Pats name by throwing out more claims, because the Patriots were caught flat out. Will it make you feel better if Dallas is caught also? It doesn't change anything with regards to NE, i hope u realize that


              Courtesy of Fenikz - Much Appreciated

              Originally posted by dRaFtDoRk
              You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.

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              • #52
                Well, thank you Jay for converting me. From now on I shall no longer hate the Pats because of what you, and you alone, have done to change my mind about their videotaping of signals. You should be so proud of the amount of work you put in to posting about the videotaping by the Pats. In fact, I don't know if you have posted about anything else but that doesn't matter because you have done so much to change my mind and the minds of others. Thank you.

                Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011

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                • #53
                  for the record, i can see why u are trying to clear your teams name. But the simple fact is that they got caught and are clearly guilty. The issue of whether other teams did/are doing it doesn't make a difference, it would just add to the list of more cheaters. I would never expect a Pats fan to just acknowledge this info and stop loving their team, i just find it odd that u keep bringing up the Pats issue.
                  Truth be told, its a rough spot for Pats fans to be in, and i know that i would be embarressed if the Jets were busted on those chargers. However, if they did in fact have any impact on them winning their Superbowl titles, i'd say you got your moneys worth.


                  Courtesy of Fenikz - Much Appreciated

                  Originally posted by dRaFtDoRk
                  You can't be a good corner if no one throws your way. Thats my way of seeing it.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Jay View Post
                    GET OVER IT.
                    The only one who should get over it is you...

                    I don't even really agree/disagree with one side or the other. But you telling others to get over it is laughable, considering you are the one who is constantly bringing it up.
                    Last edited by 49ersfan_87; 02-24-2008, 04:33 PM.

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                    • #55
                      I'm not trying to clear their name. They did it. They got caught. They paid the penalty. Don't know how many times I need to say that.

                      But I can guarantee that any and every time something like this comes up, I'll be ready to point it out for all of those that want to live in the fantasy world that the Patriots were the only ones with skeletons in the closet. And I will continue to laugh while people pretend it doesn't matter, that the only one that matters are the Patriots.

                      That's the only thing that annoys me. There are clear cut cases of similar situations across the league and no one cares. But hey, I guess that's just the price you pay for being awesome.I remember hating the Cowboys when they were good, and god knows I can't stand the Yankees for the same reason. I guess we really are the Yankees of the NFL...

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Jay View Post
                        I'm not trying to clear their name. They did it. They got caught. They paid the penalty. Don't know how many times I need to say that.

                        But I can guarantee that any and every time something like this comes up, I'll be ready to point it out for all of those that want to live in the fantasy world that the Patriots were the only ones with skeletons in the closet. And I will continue to laugh while people pretend it doesn't matter, that the only one that matters are the Patriots.

                        That's the only thing that annoys me. There are clear cut cases of similar situations across the league and no one cares. But hey, I guess that's just the price you pay for being awesome.I remember hating the Cowboys when they were good, and god knows I can't stand the Yankees for the same reason. I guess we really are the Yankees of the NFL...
                        Stealing signals like Jimmy Johnson did, and how numerous other do, is a lot different than what the patriots allegedly did.

                        The coordinators in the league cover their mouths for a reason. Everyone knows that signal stealing is going on. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, especially after hearing people like Brian Urlacher say that it would be really hard for the Patriots to exploit their defense even if they had the signals because the radio inside Brady's helmet turns off before he has time to make adjustments based on the signals the coach calls.

                        I think the difference with the Pats is that they are accused of taping an actual practice before the superbowl, which had all of the redzone plays.

                        For this reason, you cannot mention them in the same breath as the Cowboys, Colts, or any other team.

                        It's also very fishy with the NFL appearing as if they are trying to sweep this incident under the rug.

                        Maybe we will find out that this Walsh guy has nothing and IMO the Patriots shouldn't be considered cheaters, because everyone will steal signals if given the opportunity.

                        But spying on a practice is different.

                        The big problem is your coach. Everyone hates that asshole. He just has no personality whatsoever and gives off an aura of a miserable human being. It's annoying.

                        The team also had a "our **** doesn't stink" attitude this year which doesn't help. And their good. Basically cheating and getting caught and then acting like smug assholes all season doesn't put you in good standing with the rest of the league and its fans.

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                        • #57
                          I don't have an issue with most of what you said. However, the NFL knew and had the video tapes of the Denver Broncos taping San Diego Chargers practices and did nothing. NOTHING. It would irk me just a little if the Patriots were punished retroactively for this and nothing comes of the Broncos situation. Equal punishment for an equal crime.

                          We don't know if the Patriots did what they are accused of. If it's true, no excuses, it was wrong. 5409604850 times worse then "Spygate I." Bottom line.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Jay View Post
                            I don't have an issue with most of what you said. However, the NFL knew and had the video tapes of the Denver Broncos taping San Diego Chargers practices and did nothing. NOTHING. It would irk me just a little if the Patriots were punished retroactively for this and nothing comes of the Broncos situation. Equal punishment for an equal crime.

                            We don't know if the Patriots did what they are accused of. If it's true, no excuses, it was wrong. 5409604850 times worse then "Spygate I." Bottom line.
                            Yeah, if what we know already is the full extent of what they did, than I think the punishment they already received is fair.

                            My question is where is Mangini? He started all of this and should help finish it. If he knows about the taped practices or has seen the tapes then he should corroborate what Walsh claims to have.

                            Basically Walsh is taking this on by himself and I'm not hearing anything from any of the people that wanted to make it an issue in the first place. What's that all about?

                            Specter has a hard on for this because his Eagles lost, but outside of him, no one else seems to care other than opposing teams fans.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Jay
                              They broke rules that we can now officially say everyone broke. No more proof is needed, we have a Super Bowl winning coach that was a part of three organizations saying "everyone did it." That doesn't make it OK for anyone to do, but it does prove just how irrelevant it really is.

                              It's like speeding. Everyone does it, but it doesn't make it OK when you get a ticket.

                              This is a petty crime. The only reason people call want it to be "cheating" or the most egregious act ever committed in the history of the NFL . I don't think every team did it, but a lot of them did, and every team steals signals. There are a number of ways to steal signals, and it will ALWAYS be guess work regardless of the method you choose.
                              There's no proof at all to suggest that the entire NFL, or even a good amount of the teams, did it, or currently do it. As I said, the Pats are now and the 'Boys are then. Jimmy Johnson has no merit when saying that currently the 32 teams in the NFL video tape the other team's signals. It doesn't matter how many organizations he's been a part of or how many Super Bowls he's won. And to say that his statements are proof that taping the other team is practiced by most of the NFL, both past and present, is asinine.

                              Also, it doesn't matter if teams did it in the past, if you want to get technical about this. It wasn't a rule or controversy back then. Today, it is a rule and controversy. Roger Goodell informed the teams that filming the other team was prohibited, and Bill Belichick did it anyway. He was caught, and he and the organization were punished for breaking a rule. Thus, he was cheating. It doesn't matter if the crime is petty or not. It's a rule. It was broken. Punishment was dealt.

                              But hey, when your players stop chop blocking guys at the knees, stomping on peoples faces and shooting up dance clubs, maybe I'll look to you for advice on morality. Because I'll tell you what, your team may have cheated mine out of a Super Bowl when Bobby Wade decided to take out Rodney Harrison's knee, but I am sure everyone will think that is OK because it was Rodney Harrison.
                              Wow... Way to be extremely petty. At first I thought I was talking with an intelligent person, but you have proved me dead wrong. You're absolutely right. My opinion is worthless due to two of my players, not three as you suggest, committing acts that I have never once defended. I mean, it's incredibly pathetic that you have to resort to this cheap shot, but kudos to you. I mean, a fan of the New England Patriots, who contain Rodney Harrison and Vince Wilfork on it's roster, calling my team dirty or immoral... I mean, I have nothing possible to say about those guys, so I am speechless.

                              Oh, and as for the Bobby Wade block on Rodney Harrison, it was completely legal. Harrison just complained and moaned over it cause he hurt his already injured leg. I don't blame him. If I was voted the NFL's Dirtiest Player a countless number of times, and was hurt after a 5'10, 190 lb. slot receiver blocked me below the waist from the front, I'd be afraid that my reputation may be tarnished. It's only natural to call foul play when something doesn't go your way.

                              But seriously, who doesn't think Rodney Harrison complaining about a cheap shot is absolutely hilarious? Honestly?

                              If losing Rodney Harrison was the difference in the Pats winning the Super Bowl, then the Pats didn't deserve to go anyway. You guys lost to a better team, and thats it. The Colts and Peyton Manning were better than the Patriots and Tom Brady. We didn't cheat the Pats out of anything. And if you think we did, I pity you. Point the blame to yourself. Perhaps ya'lls lenses were out of focus?

                              It's time for people to get over it. If you refuse to treat the two as the same, you are here forward a hypocrite. It's that simple. I'll treat this the same as rumors of the Rams spying on the Patriots and the confirmation that the Jets used video in Foxboro along the Pats and "Spygate I": ain't nothing but a thing.
                              Most are over it. It's just you and your vendetta to somehow exonerate the Patriots from Spygate. Your posts of, "You guys are making too big of deal out of this," and "Hey, these guys did it! So that has to mean tons of people do it, right? Of course it's right! I have no proof other than an old coach saying so, but thats good enough for me so it has to be good enough for you!" No one's a hypocrite. It's just you attempting to deflect non-existant attacks towards your team, and people reading your threads and being reminded of the entire thing. People still harbor ill feelings towards the Pats, but they usually keep it to themselves. But when these threads are created, it just stirs up the harbored resentment and provides an outlet to express those feelings. Your attempts to defend your team only hinders the healing process of people forgetting about the whole thing. So good luck with your little quest.
                              Last edited by TitanHope; 02-24-2008, 08:30 PM.
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                              [@TDWinstead]
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                              • #60
                                If the cowboys have literally just as much proof that they cheated before games in their championship seasons as the patriots (in 2001) then why should they not be treated the same? I am not trying to condone what the patriots did. They got caught breaking a rule, and even though they are not the only ones who do it, they were the ones to get caught. It's not a matter of clearing a name, but pointing out the fact that the patriots are taking it on the chin where others got no punishment and scrutiny for the same actions, even when they were caught.

                                Oh, and it seems completely random, but the block on Harrison was not from the front, it was from the side and a dirty block, regardless of who is being blocked.
                                Patriots, Red Sox, Celtics, Bruins, Texas Longhorns

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