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Goodell urges crackdown on cheating in memo to competition committee

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Renji View Post
    jay so ur basically also saying the whole Committee hates the Pats, they let other teams get away and only fine the Pats?
    No, I am saying the NFL wants this all to go away and get back to doing things their way. What good would it have done to start another scandal?

    Even this "crackdown" article is a total sham much of the way of the Mitchell Report. It's action to make it look like they are taking action. A show of force if you will. It's a sham and everyone knows it. I hope like hell no one else ever gets caught. I have no problem with the Patriots being the only team that EVER gets caught, so long as everyone is on equal ground and we can get back to talking about football again...

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Renji View Post
      Yea and thats why Magini woke up someday and was like:

      Hey maybe the Pats cheat!
      I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. The patriots did tape the signals of Jets coaches in the first week of the season, and likely had before then. What I was talking about earlier was the walsh tapes specifically, in which everyone seems to take Walsh's word without any question, but then turn around and dismiss BB's and Pioli's word as "obviously they would say that" and that it cannot be true.
      Patriots, Red Sox, Celtics, Bruins, Texas Longhorns

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        Dam8610:

        No, you don't. I've said it all along that if this happened to any other team, no one would care, yourself included. This is why no one cares about the Jets being caught filming from an area against NFL rules in Foxboro, and another reason no one cares about the wink-wink, nudge-nudge deal between Tony Dungy and Jeff Fisher.
        I know you feel that way, but it's just not true. If the Colts were proven to be cheaters, I'd lose a lot of respect for the organization, and while I'd still be a fan, it's something I'd want to move on from and never discuss again, because it'd make a bright chapter in their history instead a shameful one. If it were any team other than the Patriots cheating, I'd be just as upset and concerned over it, because it would bring up questions about the integrity of the game, which is the heart of this issue. As for your accusations, cite sources or shut up about these types of things. Wildly flinging accusations about other teams with no proof of them makes your credibility go down the tubes, and makes you look like a crybaby whose only interest is defending his team to the death.

        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        And it's the same reason no one cares about tampering, much less the fact that they get away with saying "everyone is doing it."
        I care about tampering, as it's cheating, but you've yet to cite proof of it being done. As I said before, when I SEE PROOF of tampering, as I have of the Patriots' filming, then I'll be all for according punishment of those teams. What you seem to fail to understand is that almost every entity in this country operates under the assumption that when an accusation is made about a person or group, that person or group is innocent until proven guilty, at which point proper disciplinary action should be handed out. It's how the situation with the Patriots was handled, yet you don't want to allow the same treatment for the other 31 franchises.

        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        You're right, there is a lot of hypocrisy, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why it gets Patriot fans bent out of shape.
        I can't believe you don't recognize the hypocrisy in basically all of what you've said on this issue ever since it happened. You want everyone to forgive and forget with the Patriots, and since they won't, you want to bring up every minor unproven incident of what you think is cheating and complain that those teams aren't being punished for them. Hypocrisy at its finest. Not to mention the fact that every time you do this you're basically calling the NFL an incompetent organization in the disciplinary department basically because you're upset about what they did to the Patriots.

        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        We see all these other blatant disregards for NFL rules and policy go unpunished and blatantly not cared about, while we're evil and dastardly for doing something that, wait for it, everyone was doing. But God knows you're not going to let me get away with saying "everyone was doing it."
        What blatant disregards of NFL rules? You've yet to provide one iota of proof of any of the wild accusations you've made, yet you want people to simply assume that they're true? Well, forgive me for not being an idiot, but I like my punishments to come with some proof. This all sounds very similar to the rantings of a child whose had his or her favorite toy taken away, and I can tell by the posts on this thread that I'm not the only one that's sick of it. So for all your accusations from this point forward, there's a very concise answer: PROOF OR SHUT UP.

        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        And no, teams do not cover their mouths or sheild signals because taking a long time means it is a pass. Are you that freaking gullible? I mean seriously. Do I even need to explain how flawed that assessment is?
        It's odd that you would call several current NFL head coaches liars, because I've seen segments in NFL Films shows about the subject of playcallers covering their mouths, and across the board that's the reason they gave. Of course I know you'd like others to believe you, but if my choice is to be "gullible" by believing NFL coaches, or not be "gullible" by believing you, who has no proof of any of his claims, I think I'll be "gullible".

        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        And yes, you can use the media as a source, especially when it has direct quotes, cited, attributed to people involved in the situation. It's a crock of **** and we all know it.
        Use the media as a source, please. Use anything as a source to show some kind of evidence behind your accusations, it'd be a vast improvement. Still, direct quotes from people involved are shaky at best as evidence, because every team is going to feel slighted when things don't go their way. Proof that would be punishment worthy to me would be phone records showing calls between player and new team prior to the opening of free agency, and without any form of consent (be it verbal or written) from the original team.

        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        If I am a Dallas Cowboys fan, I am PISSED. How do we know their team was as prepared as they should have been with a number of members in the organization packing bags and getting ready to go to Miami?
        Now there's an accusation. You're accusing a playoff coach of not working as hard for his employer simply because there's a chance he'd be elsewhere? How'd you feel about Charlie Weis in 2004?


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        If I am a Cleveland Browns fan, I am PISSED and want some answers as to why two teams with members on the competition committee can come to an "understanding" on how a game is going to be played. That one sure got squashed quick though. No moral outrage there, and that would be 10 times worse then any filming the Patriots could EVER do. And yeah, we can play semantic games and say the Browns should have taken care of their own business, but the Giants had absolutely nothing to play for in week 17 and they put up a game for the ages against the Pats. The Pats
        Are you kidding? Yeah, Tony Dungy doesn't have any history of resting his starters in a regular season game where his team has nothing to play for, does he? This is the most absurd accusation you've come up with to date. What's next? The Dolphins will be cheating by selecting the first player in the 2008 draft?


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I don't think I am being unreasonable for expecting everyone to treat every team the same.
        Practice what you preach then.

        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I am fine with the fact that we broke a rule, were heavily penalized and whatever. We were wrong. No one has ever claimed otherwise.
        You haven't gone so far as to say the Patriots did no wrong in this incident, but you've made every conceivable effort to try to display it as being trivial, which makes it seem as though you're unwilling to accept what this incident represents, which is a violation of the rules and thus doubt as to the integrity of the games the Pats have played over the past few seasons, especially as more accusations have come out, such as Matt Walsh's accusations, which, while unfounded as of yet, still bring more doubt into the issue since they've already been shown to be guitly of this on many occasions over several years, and that's according to Roger Goodell in the state of the League address prior to the Super Bowl.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I am just tired of the hypocrisy.
        Which is just hilarious coming from the person who has spewed the most hypocrisy on this issue.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I am tired of everyone talking in circles.
        Who's talking in circles? Certainly it isn't me. Everything I've said comes from my own beliefs on the matters or some reliable source, whereas you like to accuse other teams of cheating in an attempt to detract from the meaning of your team cheating.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I am tired of everyone assuming the worst with when it comes to this but assuming nothing happened when it comes to everyone else.
        That comes down to a simple axiom of this society, that being innocent until proven guilty. As Roger Goodell said in his state of the league address, the Patriots were guilty of filming opposing teams several times over several years. Why should they be assumed to be innocent when another accusation of their filming is made? They've already been proven guilty several times over.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I am tired of Pats fans getting singled out every time something goes down. It is definitely a mob mentality against us. It doesn't matter what we say. It doesn't.
        Keep telling yourself the world is against you, it didn't work too well for your team (who pulled off the most monumental choke job in certainly NFL history, and possibly sports history in part because of it), and it hasn't worked too well for you here thus far. I don't know about everyone else here, but I've yet to single the Patriots out for anything but that of which they've been proven guilty, and no other team has. As for their fans, the only time I've seen any of you singled out is when you're trying to defend your team on the issue, and the reason for that is because no one else feels the need or desire to defend a guilty party.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I didn't see anyone rushing to talk about the lawsuit in New Orleans being dropped when it was certainly posted within minutes of it being filed.
        What lawsuit? I believe this falls under PROOF OR SHUT UP.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I didn't see anyone posting articles to discredit Matt Walsh when I've seen them rushing to let everyone know how great the info he *might* have will be.
        Why should anyone try to discredit the man? He's said nothing yet other than that he might have evidence that a guilty party committed another violation of the rules. Until what he has is seen discrediting him is not only wrong, but a heinous act against a quite possibly honest person. Only someone trying to defend the indefensible would see this as a reasonable and right act.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        It's just a shame. This board has already lost quite a few Pats fans and it is going to very quickly lose the rest.
        Well, I guess that simply means you all couldn't handle the truth, and what that means. I'm not going to be upset if a group of crybabies who want to defend cheaters leave because of what I say, that's for sure.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        There are other boards out there that actually treat each other with respect, where you can actually have civilized discourse without a bunch of immature lemmings acting like two year olds.
        If that's how you feel about us, then go to those other boards of which you speak. I'm sure most of their urls start with http://www.pat though.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        I'm sure none of you will shed any tears seeing us go, I just think it's unfortunate that it's OK for people to be driven away like that.
        You're driving yourselves away. No one is going to conform to your line of thinking just because you want them to (and a lot of the time they won't even if you prove them wrong), so if you can't deal with that, then it's your choice to leave. Make no mistake though, no one has driven anyone here away.


        Originally posted by Jay View Post
        But whatev. Think what you want, sensationalize to fit your argument, dramaticize it to get your rocks off. Have a blasty with it.
        Funny that you would say that, since in exaggeration and wild accusation, you have "sensationalize[d] to fit your argument", and you have "[dramatized] ... to get your rocks off". I hope you've "had a blast with it", and if you're leaving these boards because others won't accept and conform to your way of thinking, the quicker you leave the better it will be for all parties involved.


        The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

        If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

        <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
        <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Dam8610 View Post
          the quicker you leave the better it will be for all parties involved.
          He is a good poster when it doesn't involve cheating.
          I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
          Hunter S. Thompson

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          • #50
            Originally posted by someone447 View Post
            He is a good poster when it doesn't involve cheating.
            Notice the qualification of that phrase with the if statement before it.


            The problem arises when people use statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support instead of illumination.

            If luck is where preparation meets opportunity, then clutch is where failure meets luck.

            <Add1ct> setting myself on fire can't be that hard
            <Add1ct> but tackling a mosquito might prove a challenge

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            • #51
              pizzowneddd


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              • #52
                Well u said they didnt do that before. Obviously they did it before if Mangini knew about it.

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                • #53
                  That's why I said that in all likelihood they did. But it could be argued (albeit naively) that Mangini was simply the one who caught/turned in the patriots.
                  Patriots, Red Sox, Celtics, Bruins, Texas Longhorns

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