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Interesting article about the OL

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  • Interesting article about the OL

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1


    the thing that make this article actually intersting is that it is written by a former OL Ross tucker that played for the redskins

    thoughts?
    Do you agree that OL is where the difference between great and average players is the least in comparison to other position? and that they are over paid these days?


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  • #2
    i never really noticed there was such a small difference. to me, its always been the olineman that does the best, for the longest period of time during a game. you cant measure a lineman's sucess in stats though, and thats where things get tricky. but you can usually tell who is good, by the performence of their QB and RB



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    • #3
      i think theres a bigger difference than he's giving elite offensive lineman credit for but hes pretty much correct. a professional olineman is expected to be a pretty darn good player and i do believe name recognition plays a huge role in determining their success.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by themaninblack View Post
        i think theres a bigger difference than he's giving elite offensive lineman credit for but hes pretty much correct. a professional olineman is expected to be a pretty darn good player and i do believe name recognition plays a huge role in determining their success.
        yeah, thats why the same Olineman make the pro bowl year after year, unless one breaks out big time, or others get real old.



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        • #5
          It also has a LOT to do with the guys around you.

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          • #6
            I disagree. Trying to impose quantitative analysis upon the offensive line is absurd. Moneyball is a baseball concept; in baseball, everything can be measured quantitatively. Measuring O-line purely on the basis of pressures and sacks is ridiculous. Of course, they are a factor in performance. However, there are far more fundamental differences in performance.

            An elite lineman might get that extra couple of inches push in the run game than an average lineman, every single play. Every so often, that extra inch is going to make the difference between the RB finding the hole and not finding the hole. A elite lineman might provide an extra half-second of protection each play; every so often, that is going to make the difference between a completion and an incompletion, not between a sack and a non-sack.

            It might be possible, with a huge amount of video analysis, to construct an accurate quantitative analysis of lineman. But sacks and pressures don't even come close.

            I think that linemen are worth every penny.
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            • #7
              Originally posted by themaninblack View Post
              It also has a LOT to do with the guys around you.
              That is does, if you're a linemen and the guy to the left and right of you can not do his job, it also makes you look like a shmuck, plus if you have successful "skill" players around you you are also going to get some more credit.
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              • #8
                nothing in the NFL is as simple as it looks. there is a difference between linemen sure, the thing is i think its easier to replenish oline talent than elite skill position talent, thus making FA olinemen a debatable investment.

                but saying that average olinemen are not that much different from elite ones is false. everything starts up front, and having a quality line is critical to success.

                schemes and quarterbacks also dictate what the oline superficially looks like to the naked eye. a 3 step drop offense will make pass protection look better than it is, a qb who holds the ball too long makes it look worse. theres tons of factors to consider, its not black and white.

                also, an oline gets better with improved chemistry more than any other unit. so you don't need PB studs at each position, but great chemistry and above average guys together can make for a solid unit.

                its also easier to develop talent at oline than at skill positions. with the oline, you don't necessarily need immediate returns the way you expect from skill position players, so you can develop a late round workout warrior and hope he develops over time. thats harder to do with other positions.

                but make no mistake, talent along the offensive and defensive lines is what separates the 8-8 teams from the 12-4 teams. it all starts in the trenches.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                  nothing in the NFL is as simple as it looks. there is a difference between linemen sure, the thing is i think its easier to replenish oline talent than elite skill position talent, thus making FA olinemen a debatable investment.
                  I agree, with the exception of LT. I find, unless you get really lucky, good LTs are very very rare in FA, and the only way to nab them is in the draft. But that is probably because LT is essentially a skill position these days.


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                  • #10
                    Nice article. I think he's simplifying it a bit, but his views do tend to make sense, plus he's obviously been there, so he knows a hell of a lot better than me (and I think most guys here too).

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                    • #11
                      the guy who wrote the article made another one about the same theme

                      I think a lot will disagree with what he says but the knows certainly more than we do

                      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CutlerChris View Post
                        I agree, with the exception of LT. I find, unless you get really lucky, good LTs are very very rare in FA, and the only way to nab them is in the draft. But that is probably because LT is essentially a skill position these days.
                        i agree. LT has become a skill position almost. and teams almost never let a quality LT escape via FA. theyre almost as rare as seeing quality FA quarterbacks.

                        I still can't believe Brees was on the market and yielded such little interest with the durth of qb talent around the league. We'll never see that again.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                          I still can't believe Brees was on the market and yielded such little interest with the durth of qb talent around the league. We'll never see that again.
                          Well, he WAS coming off major surgery on his throwing shoulder so I'm sure teams were very hesitant. Hell, even I was hesitant we when first signed him.
                          The whole world loves neophyte athletic tight end Jimmy Graham from Miami with the 95th pick. "Best pick in the draft,'' one AFC coach told me. "Give him time, and in that offense, he'll be better than [Jeremy] Shockey by the start of next year.''

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Flyboy View Post
                            Well, he WAS coming off major surgery on his throwing shoulder so I'm sure teams were very hesitant. Hell, even I was hesitant we when first signed him.
                            i know, but even with that injury, he was still a much better option than many teams already had.

                            was it 21 million? how much did he get? Brees was never a guy who relied on athleticism anyway, i think the perception of Chad Pennington's demise at the time scared away teams when it shouldnt have.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                              i know, but even with that injury, he was still a much better option than many teams already had.

                              was it 21 million? how much did he get? Brees was never a guy who relied on athleticism anyway, i think the perception of Chad Pennington's demise at the time scared away teams when it shouldnt have.
                              Well, consider this: The Miami Dolphins brought in both Drew Brees & Daunte Culpepper. Brees actually wanted to go to Miami over New Orleans, but he 'failed' their physical because they were too worried about his shoulder and went with Culpepper instead. It was a blessing in disguise for our team, but that's how worried teams were about the injury.

                              Off the top of my head, Brees signed a 6 yr/$60mil contract. And speaking of Brees and offensive lines, him and Sean Payton really makes our offensive line look a lot better than it actually is.
                              The whole world loves neophyte athletic tight end Jimmy Graham from Miami with the 95th pick. "Best pick in the draft,'' one AFC coach told me. "Give him time, and in that offense, he'll be better than [Jeremy] Shockey by the start of next year.''

                              “We know that no matter the adversity, be it the lockout, be it the suspension or be it a hurricane, our men will pull together and defend the honor of this city. We’ve shown we’ve been able to do that.” - Jabari Greer

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