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  • #31
    Originally posted by TheGreatEscape View Post
    Not in the giants scheme, Shockey's a huge part of our dominant run game. If you don't believe me go check Jacobs' stats after Shockey went down, with no one to seal the edge Jacobs wasn't nearly as effective.
    Thought I would take a look at Jacobs stats after Shockey went down. He finished the game Shockey went down in with 130 yards, 85 of which were in the second half. 145 yards against Buffalo. 67 against New England.

    As for the team in general they had 139, 289 and 79 yards, barely a drop off as far as I can see. No doubt Shockey is an intergral part but don't overstate things, I still rank the Giants second

    In the NFC East I rate it like this.

    Receiving: Witten, Cooley, Shockey
    Blocking: Shockey, Witten, Cooley
    Overall: Witten, Shockey, Cooley.

    As these players so go the teams. I do think the addition of Fred Davis to the Redskins is very interesting and he could swap these rankings around.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by flave1969 View Post
      Thought I would take a look at Jacobs stats after Shockey went down. He finished the game Shockey went down in with 130 yards, 85 of which were in the second half. 145 yards against Buffalo. 67 against New England.

      As for the team in general they had 139, 289 and 79 yards, barely a drop off as far as I can see. No doubt Shockey is an intergral part but don't overstate things, I still rank the Giants second

      In the NFC East I rate it like this.

      Receiving: Witten, Cooley, Shockey
      Blocking: Shockey, Witten, Cooley
      Overall: Witten, Shockey, Cooley.

      As these players so go the teams. I do think the addition of Fred Davis to the Redskins is very interesting and he could swap these rankings around.
      The Giants averaged 1.5 ypc less without Shockey in the lineup. Thats how critical he is to our run game.


      Of course thats because we run a lot of power and Shockey was the guy who sealed the outside, so worst case scenario we can alter our scheme to make him less important, but as it stands now, he's critical to our success in the run game.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Geo View Post
        I'm not so sure if Shockey is overrated as a pass catcher. He may not stretch the seams like he used to when he was younger (before a handful of injuries), but I think he could do more. But as you said, the offense isn't geared on getting the most out of him as a receiver.
        He's still top 5. Its just that he runs the wrong route a lot of times, and his hands aren't the best.


        Despite all of that, he's still great. If he just learned how to fix that though instead of being an arrogant stubborn ass, he'd probably be the best TE in the league. But he's not.

        Personally, my patience with him is very thin. We're fine without him, if he still acts like a *****, we need to get rid of him.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Ness View Post
          Well regarding Davis there really isn't any question about what he can do. I suppose you can say if the stats aren't all there, then he and the rest of the tightends on his team shouldn't be ranked so high.
          There no doubt he can get open and make plays, but he hasn't proven this. He proven that he more of a bust, not saying he can't be good, but for now he hasn't proven a thing. Like you said, his hands haven't been his best attribute in his NFL career, and he hasn't played an entire season yet.


          Edit: BigBlue, I'm not sure you guys would be fine, maybe if he was traded during the draft. Shockey, even if he not having his best game, depends coverage from the safety and linebacker, this opening passing lanes for the wideouts. Coaches don't want him to have good games. He demands double coverages, and is also an excellent blocker.
          Last edited by PACKmanN; 06-23-2008, 12:55 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
            .

            Personally, my patience with him is very thin. We're fine without him, if he still acts like a *****, we need to get rid of him.
            I think Boss if he plays to the potential he showed late in the year will make it an easier decision. That said Shockey gives you all you would ever want from a TE, he would have to be really, really, disruptive for me to let him go if he is still performing.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
              The Giants averaged 1.5 ypc less without Shockey in the lineup. Thats how critical he is to our run game.


              Of course thats because we run a lot of power and Shockey was the guy who sealed the outside, so worst case scenario we can alter our scheme to make him less important, but as it stands now, he's critical to our success in the run game.
              That simple concept is something the media and other Giants fans missed. They praise Eli, and say we don't need shockey, but he was a huge part of our running game, especially the concepts we run with our RBs. We need him from that perspective.

              Also, if we do get rid of shockey, we better change up our scheme. It would be a 100% overhaul because most of our runs are power, or something creative to the outside. Hopefully we run more ISO and lead as well, if Shockey leaves. I would like us to run alot more zone runs, but Jacobs's vision is not good, so I don't know how that would work out.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by flave1969 View Post
                Thought I would take a look at Jacobs stats after Shockey went down. He finished the game Shockey went down in with 130 yards, 85 of which were in the second half. 145 yards against Buffalo. 67 against New England.

                As for the team in general they had 139, 289 and 79 yards, barely a drop off as far as I can see. No doubt Shockey is an intergral part but don't overstate things, I still rank the Giants second

                In the NFC East I rate it like this.

                Receiving: Witten, Cooley, Shockey
                Blocking: Shockey, Witten, Cooley
                Overall: Witten, Shockey, Cooley.

                As these players so go the teams. I do think the addition of Fred Davis to the Redskins is very interesting and he could swap these rankings around.
                As BBD said, check the YPC because they really went down, he still accumilated yards but it took a lot more carries. A 1.5 difference in YPC over the course of the season would equal a good 400+ yards per season from our running game. That's a pretty significant loss.

                Comment


                • #38
                  The difference between Shockey and Cooley is not as vast as you giants fans make it out to be. Yes he is the better overall blocker and does good things for your schemes but Cooley is a superior pass catching threat and blocks well within the scheme we had here under Gibbs where he served more as the h-back. I am very interested to see how Zorn will use Cooley and Fred Davis in 2 TE sets in our new west coast offense.


                  Stedman Bailey 2012 Stat Tracker:
                  12 Games, 106 Rec, 1501 yards, 23 TD's

                  Steddy Ambition!
                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnISzeG2Ao

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by 703SKINS202 View Post
                    The difference between Shockey and Cooley is not as vast as you giants fans make it out to be. Yes he is the better overall blocker and does good things for your schemes but Cooley is a superior pass catching threat and blocks well within the scheme we had here under Gibbs where he served more as the h-back. I am very interested to see how Zorn will use Cooley and Fred Davis in 2 TE sets in our new west coast offense.
                    I think the two are very similar in there level of play although i do rank Shockey a smidge higher, the big difference is Boss and our depth, as Boss has proven he can make big plays in the clutch.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TheGreatEscape View Post
                      I think the two are very similar in there level of play although i do rank Shockey a smidge higher, the big difference is Boss and our depth, as Boss has proven he can make big plays in the clutch.
                      Thats fine I'll accept you have the depth now but I have a feeling that will change after Fred Davis' rookie season. And for the record I have Cooley higher than Shockey definitely at this point. Cooley has proven to have had the more consistent career, Shockey has gone on the decline but he is still young enough to regain his true skill level.


                      Stedman Bailey 2012 Stat Tracker:
                      12 Games, 106 Rec, 1501 yards, 23 TD's

                      Steddy Ambition!
                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnISzeG2Ao

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 703SKINS202 View Post
                        Thats fine I'll accept you have the depth now but I have a feeling that will change after Fred Davis' rookie season. And for the record I have Cooley higher than Shockey definitely at this point. Cooley has proven to have had the more consistent career, Shockey has gone on the decline but he is still young enough to regain his true skill level.
                        See that's where you're wrong, Shockey hasn't gone on the decline, he's jsut become a different player. under fassle he was a primary receiving option, under coughlin he's supposed to be a blocker and decoy. And he's excelled in both systems which is why I have a lot of respect for Shockey's game.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by TheGreatEscape View Post
                          See that's where you're wrong, Shockey hasn't gone on the decline, he's jsut become a different player. under fassle he was a primary receiving option, under coughlin he's supposed to be a blocker and decoy. And he's excelled in both systems which is why I have a lot of respect for Shockey's game.
                          I agree we use him alot differently from when Payton was our OC. If anything he is sacrificing recieving stats for helping us out in the running game in this current system. I wouldn't say he is on the decline either, but he is injury prone, that's for damn sure.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            On any message board Shockey vs Cooley is always the biggest debate amongst Giants vs Skins fans its kind of funny no Giants fan would trade Shockey for Cooley and no Skins fan would trade Cooley for Shockey, I love it.


                            Stedman Bailey 2012 Stat Tracker:
                            12 Games, 106 Rec, 1501 yards, 23 TD's

                            Steddy Ambition!
                            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnISzeG2Ao

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 703SKINS202 View Post
                              On any message board Shockey vs Cooley is always the biggest debate amongst Giants vs Skins fans its kind of funny no Giants fan would trade Shockey for Cooley and no Skins fan would trade Cooley for Shockey, I love it.
                              I wouldn't mind trading for Cooley. But what you say is homerism at it's best. I personally want good players. If I can get Cooley and Shockey on the same team, I would love to see how Jacobs does with two good run blocking TEs.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                                I wouldn't mind trading for Cooley. But what you say is homerism at it's best. I personally want good players. If I can get Cooley and Shockey on the same team, I would love to see how Jacobs does with two good run blocking TEs.
                                Yea I wouldn't mind having Shockey either to bolster our run game but what I mean is a straight up swap you wont find anyone imo.


                                Stedman Bailey 2012 Stat Tracker:
                                12 Games, 106 Rec, 1501 yards, 23 TD's

                                Steddy Ambition!
                                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnISzeG2Ao

                                Comment

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