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  • #46
    That's a big question mark and the secondary as well. Going from a press man to man play on the outside to zone. So while Woodson has played zone before, it's going to be interesting if Al harris can do that.

    Reminds me of when Tim Lewis was our DC. We played alot of zone, and it killed Corey Webster, until we changed the system and Webster is playing at a pro bowl level for us.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by tjsunstein View Post
      This is sweet. A two page thread in the NFL about the Packers without the mentioning of a certain player. We need to draft atleast another piece to the 3-4 front that can start right away, and going with it the first two rounds wouldnt be the worst thing.
      How would Favre fit in a 3-4? I think he'd excel.

      What do the vikings and marijuana have in common? Every time you put them in a bowl
      they get smoked.

      2010-2011 Super Bowl Champions
      Hint:Not the Bears.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by TitleTown088 View Post
        How would Favre fit in a 3-4? I think he'd excel.
        They don't allow Favre to play Defense because it would be way too unfair, that is why hes stuck at QB.

        Sig by Hitman D.

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        • #49
          I think Favre would do great on defense. He is already really good at throwing it to the defense.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
            That's a big question mark and the secondary as well. Going from a press man to man play on the outside to zone. So while Woodson has played zone before, it's going to be interesting if Al harris can do that.

            Reminds me of when Tim Lewis was our DC. We played alot of zone, and it killed Corey Webster, until we changed the system and Webster is playing at a pro bowl level for us.
            Al Harris will have no problem playing zone. Zone is much easier to play than man. I also highly doubt the zone won't begin in press coverage. If I were to guess, it would end up being a man within zone type of scheme. Where if someone crosses through your zone, you take them man. If no one is in your zone you peel off and look for work.

            I posted this in the Packer team forum:
            Just because it is a zone defense doesn't mean the corners have to play off. It is possible, and I am thinking quite likely, that the Packers corners will play in the receivers face even while in zone. To do otherwise would be absolutely stupid. The Packers have the best bump and run corners in the league, they will continue to take advantage of that.

            When I was at Portland State, we used a defense that was similar to the Steelers defense. Our corners were in zone, but they played it up on the line. I have a feeling that is going to be the type of defense the Packers run, considering Capers was with the Steelers when they first started running the defense(more or less) they have, back in '92. I don't think you need to worry about Harris. He will probably be able to continue playing on the line, but his diminishing speed will be hidden by the zone they will be playing. I will bet anything the secondary gets better. Woodson and Collins are both ballhawks, and they will thrive in a zone defense(even more so than they did this year.) Bigby will probably be playing closer to the line and will be able to take advantage of his hitting ability.
            I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
            Hunter S. Thompson

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            • #51
              Originally posted by someone447 View Post
              Al Harris will have no problem playing zone. Zone is much easier to play than man. I also highly doubt the zone won't begin in press coverage. If I were to guess, it would end up being a man within zone type of scheme. Where if someone crosses through your zone, you take them man. If no one is in your zone you peel off and look for work.

              I posted this in the Packer team forum:
              Just because it is a zone defense doesn't mean the corners have to play off. It is possible, and I am thinking quite likely, that the Packers corners will play in the receivers face even while in zone. To do otherwise would be absolutely stupid. The Packers have the best bump and run corners in the league, they will continue to take advantage of that.

              When I was at Portland State, we used a defense that was similar to the Steelers defense. Our corners were in zone, but they played it up on the line. I have a feeling that is going to be the type of defense the Packers run, considering Capers was with the Steelers when they first started running the defense(more or less) they have, back in '92. I don't think you need to worry about Harris. He will probably be able to continue playing on the line, but his diminishing speed will be hidden by the zone they will be playing. I will bet anything the secondary gets better. Woodson and Collins are both ballhawks, and they will thrive in a zone defense(even more so than they did this year.) Bigby will probably be playing closer to the line and will be able to take advantage of his hitting ability.

              Yeah I would assume though, that they would take the man that crosses their zone. Being an offensive minded coach, if you didn't specify responsibilities like that then teams would get into tight formations such as bunch and criss cross the hell out of you guys. So I'd assume the roles would be such that you guys would be able to play those tight formations like that.

              It will be interesting see how they play zone. They may play off man too, but yeah you can play zone closer than 5 yards. You can show pre snap man coverage, and then turn into a side technique and bail before the snap. So I am expecting Capers to throw in various looks to confuse the offense. But my comment was player specific only because it happened with our team.

              If you recall for the longest time people said our secondary stunk. Statisically yes, but that had nothing to do with talent per say. Our DC was a moron, who tried to make players play in a system that didn't flatter them. When we hired spags we changed out system and approach and Webster excelled big time.

              I am just saying overall zone is a harder concept because you are looking at the QB and @ # 2. But again the specifics would be hard to know unless one gets a copy of the def. playbook and how they approach various techniques.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                Yeah I would assume though, that they would take the man that crosses their zone. Being an offensive minded coach, if you didn't specify responsibilities like that then teams would get into tight formations such as bunch and criss cross the hell out of you guys. So I'd assume the roles would be such that you guys would be able to play those tight formations like that.

                ...

                I am just saying overall zone is a harder concept because you are looking at the QB and @ # 2. But again the specifics would be hard to know unless one gets a copy of the def. playbook and how they approach various techniques.
                I don't think you are understanding what I mean. I am betting they will play zone where if a man crosses into their zone, they lock up on him. Then they follow him anywhere on the field, instead of a true zone where they will pass him on to the next guy.

                Zone is a harder concept, but much easier in execution. You do not read the QBs eyes on any level higher than High School. The ball gets to the receiver too quickly. The corner would read #2 to #1, he wouldn't ever look at the QB, except in situations where he is playing a free zone(which is usually the safeties job.)
                I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                Hunter S. Thompson

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by someone447 View Post
                  I don't think you are understanding what I mean. I am betting they will play zone where if a man crosses into their zone, they lock up on him. Then they follow him anywhere on the field, instead of a true zone where they will pass him on to the next guy.

                  Zone is a harder concept, but much easier in execution. You do not read the QBs eyes on any level higher than High School. The ball gets to the receiver too quickly. The corner would read #2 to #1, he wouldn't ever look at the QB, except in situations where he is playing a free zone(which is usually the safeties job.)

                  Are you saying corners playing in a zone don't read the QB's eyes?

                  A true zone or false zone or whatever corners read Qb's eyes alot. Unless I have missed something in the past 90 years.
                  my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
                  <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
                  <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
                  <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
                  Originally posted by Hermstheman83
                  What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by bored of education View Post
                    Are you saying corners playing in a zone don't read the QB's eyes?

                    A true zone or false zone or whatever corners read Qb's eyes alot. Unless I have missed something in the past 90 years.
                    In most zones DBs do not read the QBs eyes. The exception is when a DB is playing free. They are always looking at the receivers. The receivers are too quick, and the ball gets their too fast. Watch when there are busted coverages, 9 times out of 10 it won't be because they got beat, but because they were watching the QB. Watch when a team plays excellent zone and they will always be watching their keys, which for a DB is NEVER the QB.

                    High school is the only level where you are taught to watch the QBs eyes. That gets beaten out of you when you play in college quickly. It is a tough adjustment to make, but when you do, zone gets a hell of a lot easier.
                    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                    Hunter S. Thompson

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by someone447 View Post
                      In most zones DBs do not read the QBs eyes. The exception is when a DB is playing free. They are always looking at the receivers. The receivers are too quick, and the ball gets their too fast. Watch when there are busted coverages, 9 times out of 10 it won't be because they got beat, but because they were watching the QB. Watch when a team plays excellent zone and they will always be watching their keys, which for a DB is NEVER the QB.

                      High school is the only level where you are taught to watch the QBs eyes. That gets beaten out of you when you play in college quickly. It is a tough adjustment to make, but when you do, zone gets a hell of a lot easier.
                      Are you cues in which make a corner break on a pass the QB or the WR?
                      Don't tell me the WR putting his arms up about to catch it :D
                      my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
                      <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
                      <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
                      <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
                      Originally posted by Hermstheman83
                      What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by bored of education View Post
                        Are you cues in which make a corner break on a pass the QB or the WR?
                        Don't tell me the WR putting his arms up about to catch it :D
                        The receivers break, not the ball. You look for the ball when the receiver breaks.
                        I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                        Hunter S. Thompson

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by someone447 View Post
                          The receivers break, not the ball. You look for the ball when the receiver breaks.
                          And if you don't watch the Qb's eyes, then you just been double moved!
                          my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
                          <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
                          <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
                          <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
                          Originally posted by Hermstheman83
                          What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by someone447 View Post
                            I don't think you are understanding what I mean. I am betting they will play zone where if a man crosses into their zone, they lock up on him. Then they follow him anywhere on the field, instead of a true zone where they will pass him on to the next guy.

                            Zone is a harder concept, but much easier in execution. You do not read the QBs eyes on any level higher than High School. The ball gets to the receiver too quickly. The corner would read #2 to #1, he wouldn't ever look at the QB, except in situations where he is playing a free zone(which is usually the safeties job.)
                            O ok, I get it. You're right I mis understood what you were trying to get at.

                            Yeah that could be option Capers may use. It depends on his system though. I am sure they will mix it up at this NFL level.

                            The defender does look at the QB's eyes, and that's simply by turning into a side stance while bailing. That's what I mean by looking into the QB's eyes or backfield. Also, you are looking into the backfield for your other read, and that's where route reading comes into place. That's how the CB then hits his recognizion point and then tries to get to the int. point of the WR's route.

                            We must be talking specific system, because I know the Bucs when they ran Tampa 2 zone, they read when # 1 with their eyes in the backfield through # 1 for # 2. While they are doing that, they are collisioning # 1, and funneling him inside, that's where they decide if # 2 is a threat they sink, if not they may play trail hoping the safety is there. But again this all theory, because each DC will implement his own way of running the system. This specific system is from the Bucs style of Tampa 2/ C2 zone system. You may be correct too, in which case we are basically talking same theory but the implentation of it being different.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by bored of education View Post
                              And if you don't watch the Qb's eyes, then you just been double moved!
                              That's why a double move is the hardest thing to cover. The QBs eyes won't give away if it is a double move. I can promise you DBs don't look at the QBs eyes. When I was playing at Portland State last year, Jerry Glanville was my head coach. He was an NFL coach for 20+ years. You have no idea how often he would get on me for even just glancing at the QB when I first got there. I guarantee defensive backs do not look at the QB. I know it from both personal experience, and from many people who have had experience playing at a high level. I know for a fact I am right in this argument. Watching the QB will only get a defensive back beat.
                              I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                              Hunter S. Thompson

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                                O ok, I get it. You're right I mis understood what you were trying to get at.

                                Yeah that could be option Capers may use. It depends on his system though. I am sure they will mix it up at this NFL level.

                                The defender does look at the QB's eyes, and that's simply by turning into a side stance while bailing. That's what I mean by looking into the QB's eyes or backfield. Also, you are looking into the backfield for your other read, and that's where route reading comes into place. That's how the CB then hits his recognizion point and then tries to get to the int. point of the WR's route.

                                We must be talking specific system, because I know the Bucs when they ran Tampa 2 zone, they read when # 1 with their eyes in the backfield through # 1 for # 2. While they are doing that, they are collisioning # 1, and funneling him inside, that's where they decide if # 2 is a threat they sink, if not they may play trail hoping the safety is there. But again this all theory, because each DC will implement his own way of running the system. This specific system is from the Bucs style of Tampa 2/ C2 zone system. You may be correct too, in which case we are basically talking same theory but the implentation of it being different.
                                Obviously, everything I say is only mean to be in general, there are specific plays that a db would read the backfield.

                                The corner who turns to face the field(instead of the man) doesn't look at the QB, he looks at the rest of the field to see if he needs to peel off. Taking your eyes off the receivers is the cardinal sin of defensive backs.

                                I know what you mean by reading a QBs eyes, but if there is more than one receiver to a side, the CB does not look in the backfield at all. Defensive backs react to the receivers routes. They do it the same in zone as they would in man. They do not look for the ball until the have reacted to the receiver.

                                In a cover two defense the Corner is responsible for reading 1 to 2(3 if it is trips, but only if 2 and three do a quick cross.) If #2 is in the backfield he will read that. If #2 isn't in the backfield he won't even look to the backfield.

                                Defensive backs very rarely look to the backfield. They are not concerned about the QB or the RBs(unless they are primary force, but that is really only goalline, or if you are Troy Palomalu.)
                                I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
                                Hunter S. Thompson

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