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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mr. Hero View Post
    I think that first statement is more coincidence than direct correlation. Roddy White was in his first two years in the league with the Vickster and dropped passes left and right, that's not vick's fault, but your argument would assume it was. Vick wasn't a great passer, but he was a great playmaker who was developing as a passer, his last year he almost looked in control of his offense, which is the first and most important step for a young QB.
    I'd say Vick was more the problem than White and Jenkins, besides, even if they had developmental issues, they were made worse by Vicks sucktitude as a passer.


    Originally posted by Mr. Hero View Post
    Are trying to discredit that accomplishment? They were a consistent playoff contender with an elite running game with him, the smallest starting RB in the league, a mediocre oline and TJ Duckett, the goal line back who wasn't good at punching it in. Vick opened the field up for that offense and if he hadn't been an idiot and let his homeboys run this operation in his name there's a very good chance he would've continued to progress as a passer and become the next McNair or McNabb, only faster and with a bigger arm.
    Vick was in the playoffs twice... That's not "consistent" and lets not get ahead of ourselves he was never anywhere near the passer mcNair or McNabb were, even as young QBs.

    Vick was a good open field runner and behind an offensive line that was very good in the running game, Dunn and Duckett paved the way for Vick to contribute and that aided their running game. It's not as if Vick's arm was a deterrent to defenses.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
      I'd say Vick was more the problem than White and Jenkins, besides, even if they had developmental issues, they were made worse by Vicks sucktitude as a passer.

      Vick was in the playoffs twice... That's not "consistent" and lets not get ahead of ourselves he was never anywhere near the passer mcNair or McNabb were, even as young QBs.

      Vick was a good open field runner and behind an offensive line that was very good in the running game, Dunn and Duckett paved the way for Vick to contribute and that aided their running game. It's not as if Vick's arm was a deterrent to defenses.
      Sure Vick wasn't making them better, but to imply that those WRs wouldn't have developed with vick is just unfair.

      Vick in his early years wasn't far worse of a passer than McNair and McNabb were during their early years. People conveniently forget how long it took for McNair to became the quality passer he became when discussing the vickster, because vick had all of that "changing the position" hype.

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      • #33
        McNair went from bad to better to very good in about 4 years, having to start at odd times in his first two years made him falter somewhat, but he was a solid QB from that point on.

        Vick was streaky in his year to year performance, McNair continued to imrpove from day one.

        Vick was no where near as good a pocket passer.

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        • #34
          What happened to Alge Crumpler after Vick left?

          You can make the argument that he was one of the only receiving threats on that offense. In fact he was the leading receiver for two years. After Vick left, Crumpler's production ended and was released in 08.

          So if Mike Vick couldnt throw the ball accurately and was so bad at delivering the ball why did Alge Crumpler go to 5 consecutive pro bowls? Just a thought.

          I think some people are blinded by hate for what he did and formulate an argument based on that hate. I still cannot believe that people cannot agree that he was one of the most exciting players in both the history of cfb and nfl.
          Last edited by Staggart; 03-30-2009, 05:17 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
            I'd say Vick was more the problem than White and Jenkins, besides, even if they had developmental issues, they were made worse by Vicks sucktitude as a passer.

            I don't have the patience to look this up but I'm betting the Falcons were among the league leaders in drops when he was QB-if you want to argue that they couldn't catch his fastball that's valid-otherwise.....

            Originally posted by borg9
            Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

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            • #36
              heres my rant from another thread... just saying how good he was.


              2002 vicks first year starting, he had 3000 yards passing, 55% comp., 16td and 8 ints also 777 yards rushing 8 td and 6 lost fumbles.

              total, 3777 total yards, 24 tds, 14 turnovers also he won 10 games and tied one. won the wild card and lost in the divisonal round of playoffs.

              2003
              his second year he got hurt and his team failed to do anything winning 2 games without him but then with 4 games left he wins 3 out of 4 games.

              total 840 yards and 5-4 td/turnover ratio. and was 3-1 as a starter.

              2004 he had 2300 yards passing, 56% comp., 14/12 td/int ratio and 900 yards rushing, 3td and 7 lost fumbles.

              totals. 3200 yards, 17tds, 19 turnovers. 11-5 record and playoffs, won in the divisonal round but lost in conference.

              2005 he had 2400 passing, 55% comp., 15/13 td int ratio and 600 yards rushing and 6tds and 5 fumbles lost.

              totals. 3000 yards, 21/18 td turnover ratio and he won 8 games and didnt make the playoffs, first bad year for him.

              2006, he had 2500 passing, 53% comp., 20/13 td int ratio and 1050 rushing, 2 td and 3 lost fumbles.

              total, 3550 yards, 22/16 td turnover ratio and he won 7 games and didnt goto the playoffs.


              overall he averaged 3000+ yards a year and his touchdown to turnover ratio 84/67... +17 and also his career record for winning was 36-27-1. i would say he is a winner who wins you games and can change the game for your team at any moment and would love to have him as my qb.


              RIP, Sean Taylor.

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              • #37
                i agree, the stat i look at for QBs the most is wins, the greats knew how to win

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                • #38
                  People are still stupidly bias toward Vick.

                  If the team did well, Vick was the cause, if the team fails, it's other's fault.

                  I went through the same arguments with Falcons homers for years.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                    People are still stupidly bias toward Vick.

                    If the team did well, Vick was the cause, if the team fails, it's other's fault.

                    I went through the same arguments with Falcons homers for years.
                    I'm starting to believe we won in spite of Vick. I already hate the man for what he did to the franchise.

                    Owner of ScarDraft
                    Atlanta Falcons and NFL Draft Featured Columnist for Bleacher Report

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                    • #40
                      Vick helped the Falcons win when he was on, but also hurt the team in often subtle ways. Some games he would just not perform well and some defenses just got the better of him. Some defenders knew how to contain him: Dawkins, Brooks, Urlacher and some D-coordinators could shut him down. It was obvious his work habits could have been better and when other players see the QB not giving 100% off the field. it affects them.

                      Of course some apologist will probably try to tell you Vick did give 100%, but that is such obvious BS. The guy was too busy running a criminal organization and smoking weed to be as dedicated to his job as other 100 million dollar QB's.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by scar988 View Post
                        I'm starting to believe we won in spite of Vick. I already hate the man for what he did to the franchise.
                        When you win in spite of someone you get a Ewing Theory when he leaves. Your team gets better. You don't go from fringe playoff team to 3rd overall pick.


                        Originally posted by Scott Wright
                        Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
                        Originally posted by njx9
                        do i tell you when to flip the burger?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by CutlerChris View Post
                          When you win in spite of someone you get a Ewing Theory when he leaves. Your team gets better. You don't go from fringe playoff team to 3rd overall pick.
                          Exactly

                          Without Vick 2002-2007
                          2002- 1-0
                          2003- 2-10
                          2004- 0-1
                          2005- 0-1
                          2007- 4-12

                          7-24 w/o Vick

                          22.58 % win percentage ( average of 3.61 wins/year)


                          With Vick
                          2002: 8-6-1
                          2003: 3-1
                          2004: 11-4
                          2005: 8-7
                          2006: 7-9

                          38-28-1

                          57.46 % win percentage (average of 9.19 wins/year)


                          And that was not just coincidental correlation, it was causation. Vick helped the Falcons compete and masked their weaknesses with his improvisational skills.

                          This was first revealed in 2003. There was a contingent of fans who though Doug Johnson was better than Vick because of what he showed in the pre-season. When Vick went down the players said they had to show they weren't a one man team.

                          Well that was clearly exposed. Then the same deal with Matt Schaub the so called pre-season wonder that was better than Vick. Didn't win with him in Vick's place either.

                          Without Vick's improvisational skills the joke of a cast and coaching staff the Falcons had over the years had no a chance to compete, especially over the course of a season.


                          Vick was underrated because people hated the way he played the game. And he's even more underrated now because of how many people hate him because of what he did off the field
                          Last edited by BBIB; 03-31-2009, 06:10 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                            I'd say Vick was more the problem than White and Jenkins, besides, even if they had developmental issues, they were made worse by Vicks sucktitude as a passer.
                            Roddy White started 8 games his first year in the league and only 5 his 2nd.

                            Hard to put up Pro Bowl stats with that time of playing time.

                            Not to mention there are even several articles documenting Roddy White's poor work ethic coming into the league.

                            This in addition to the fact that it was stated by pretty much every draft site that it would take him several years to develop.

                            This is in addition to the fact that Roddy White is the only receiver to really blossom once Vick left or when a WR left Atlanta.

                            If Vick was truly a problem then there would be another WR who played with Vick who left Atlanta or once Vick left that truly blossomed and started living up to their billing. Roddy White is the only one.

                            And there are a plethora of reasons including the ones I listed and not even including the fact that he was put in a vertical offense where he belonged and the Falcons brought in Hue Jackson a WR coach who pretty much saved the career of TJ HOushmanzedah.

                            Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                            Vick was in the playoffs twice... That's not "consistent" and lets not get ahead of ourselves he was never anywhere near the passer mcNair or McNabb were, even as young QBs.
                            The Falcons had gone to the playoffs 6 times before Vick took over as a starter and they only had 4 playoff wins in their history before he took over as a starter.

                            For a franchise with that type of history, 2 playoff wins is pretty darn consistent. And even in the two years the Falcons didn't make the playoffs they were at least in playoff contention up until the last couple of weeks of the season. They had two regular season collapses where they finished 2-6 in 2005 and 2006 and that had a helluva lot to do with a defense depleted by injuries.

                            Vick was a better QB for instance in 2006 than he was in 2004, but that didn't matter because the defense wasn't nearly as good down the stretch with injuries especially to the Dline which was a big part of the Falcons success was the pressure up front. Not to mention Warrick Dunn was pretty much the worst starting RB in the league that year.


                            Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                            Vick was a good open field runner and behind an offensive line that was very good in the running game, Dunn and Duckett paved the way for Vick to contribute and that aided their running game. It's not as if Vick's arm was a deterrent to defenses.
                            Oh please. Vick almost outrushed Warrick Dunn in his last season in the NFL. The Falcons did miss Duckett around the goaline, but defenses focused on stopping Vick first which is why so many open lanes off the bootleg were opened up.

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                            • #44
                              The Panthers devised a pretty good way to stop Vick and it worked, 4 times.

                              He was never a good passer, he was a good open field runner, and that's why the team was successful. Not to mention, as everyone seems to be forgetting he was playing "well" during a time when the rest of the NFC was suffering through extreme sucktitude (02-05).

                              The Falcons are right now a FAR better team than they ever were with him at the helm. Matt Ryan is already a better passer than Vick ever was in his career and already equaled Vick's best season in wins.

                              Oh and the first Vick homer to say "the team was better than it was for vick" for shoot themselves in the face for proving my argument.

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                              • #45
                                When a team has more talent at other positions it's possible for the team to succeed with worse talent at one position. Not trying to say anything. just sayin'

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