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Scott Pioli: Overrated?

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  • Scott Pioli: Overrated?

    In the NFL, hope plays an important role. The top 10 teams hope to win the Super Bowl and the bottom 10 teams hope to make the playoffs. It’s no surprise that Kansas City fans and media were feeling pretty good about their 2-14 team after turning the hopeless duo of Carl Peterson and Herman Edwards into Scott Pioli and Todd Haley. Why? Because it’s Scott Pioli, the mastermind behind three Super Bowl teams, a great eye for talent in draft and free agency with consecutive “Executive Of The Year Awards” from 2003-2004 to boot. So let’s take a look at what his impact on the Chiefs has been so far and what KC fans should expect from his drafts.

    • The Chiefs have switched to a 3-4 defense:

    This is an odd decision when you consider that a lot of personnel doesn’t the 3-4. Why are the talents of the best three technique prospect since Warren Sapp being wasted at nose tackle or five technique? Tamba Hali at outside linebacker? Yuck. How badly will Brandon Flowers get burned playing press man coverage? Sometimes we get too excited about the potential deceptiveness of a 3-4 pass rush and forget that 4-3 teams like the Colts and Bengals have made their pass rush unique and deceptive too.
    • Traded 34th pick for Matt Cassel and Mike Vrabel:


    I’ve never been a fan of Cassel. I feel like he’s a spread system QB that wasn’t needed since they already had one of those in Tyler Thigpen. Maybe I’m wrong, but let us see what he can do without Welker and Moss. Not much needs to be said about Vrabel. He’s a bad contract that couldn’t get many sacks in the linebacker friendly defense of the Patriots.
    • Signed guys like Bobby Engram and Mike Goff while pissing off Brian Waters:

    These are stop gap guys, but at least they can start. On the other hand, Brian Waters is an all-pro and might be the best left guard in the NFL.

    Now look at some Patriot Drafts:

    2005
    1/32 – Logan Mankins, Guard
    3/84 – Ellis Hobbs, Cornerback
    3/100 – Nick Kaczur, Right Tackle
    4/133 – James Sanders, Safety
    5/170 – Ryan Calridge, Outside Linebacker
    7/230 – Matt Cassel, Quarterback
    7/255 – Andy Stokes, Tight End
    Most analysts will agree that getting 3 starters out of a draft class is considered good, with anything more being great. Keep that in mind as you look at these classes. Logan Mankins has worked out great. Ellis Hobbs, Nick Kaczur and James Sanders are solid contributors even though each could be upgraded this year. Matt Cassel is an incredible pick when you consider that they turned the 230th pick into the 34th. I just wonder why it had to be Pioli’s 34th?

    2006
    1/21 – Laurence Maroney, Running Back
    2/36 – Chad Jackson, Wide Receiver
    3/86 – David Thomas, Tight End
    4/106 – Garrett Mills, Fullback
    4/188 – Stephen Gostkowski, Kicker
    5/136 – Ryan O’Callaghan, Tackle
    6/191 – Jeremy Mincey, Linebacker
    6/205 – Dan Stevenson, Guard
    6/206 – LeKevin Smith, Defensive Linemen
    7/229 – Willie Andrews, Cornerback

    I think we can officially call Laurence Maroney a bust. He’s oft-injured and a ballerina in the backfield. We know Chad Jackson is a bust because he got kicked to the curb last training camp. Stephen Gostkowski, a kicker, is the only solid contributor.

    2007
    1/24 – Brandon Meriweather, Safety
    4/127 – Kareem Brown, Defensive End
    5/171 – Clint Oldenburg, Tackle
    6/180 – Justin Rogers, Linebacker
    6/202 – Mike Richardson, Cornerback
    6/208 – Justise Hairston, Running Back
    6/209 – Corey Hilliard, Tackle
    7/211 – Oscar Lua, LB
    7/247 – Mike Elgin, Guard/Center

    Brandon Meriweather hasn’t shown up as the Top-15 talent with character problems that he was billed as back in 2007. The four interceptions can give Pat fans hope though. Patriots have gotten nothing other than that though. They did get Wes Welker and Randy Moss from this draft though.

    2008
    1/10 – Jerod Mayo, Linebacker
    2/62 – Terrence Wheatley, Cornerback
    3/78 – Shawn Crable, Linebacker
    3/94 – Kevin O’Connell, Quarterback
    4/129 – Jonathan Wilhite, Cornerback
    5/153 – Matthew Slater, Wide Receiver
    6/197 – Bo Ruud, Linebacker

    Winning the Defensive Rookie Of The Year makes Jerod Mayo’s future look promising. He is a little overrated because his skills at shedding blocks are below average. I don’t think we should expect much out of the rest of these picks because they were all reaches. Terrence Wheatley was an especially confounding pick.

    All in all, Scott Pioli has made some questionable decisions so far and his recent drafts have proven to be lackluster. Scott Pioli might not be the right guy to turn this team around. But at least Kansas City fans can still hope.

  • #2
    Of course he's overrated, simply because he's considered some incredible super genius who is head and shoulders above all other NFL execs.

    His success has a lot to do with a very good coaching staff and talented players with great leadership.

    That's not to say he isn't a very good exec though. But no one is as good as Pioli's current rating.

    Comment


    • #3
      All I can say is when hes been the GM this team has been very good


      "Just Win Baby"- Al Davis
      @SirStackAlot707

      Comment


      • #4
        Every single person in the history of the world will make, has made and will continue to make bad decisions. I don't mean to feign naivity here but I fail to see your point.


        Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

        Comment


        • #5
          We haven't for sure switched to a 3-4, but one would argue that, looking at our defensive stats from last year, we didn't have the personnel to run a 4-3 either.

          I don't really get the point of this thread either. As a Chiefs fan replacing Peterson with Pioli was the best possible thing that could have ever happened to this organization. We've made some moves this offseason, which King Carl almost never did, and Pioli is shaking things up.

          On Cassel, Vrabel, Engram and Goff: The last three will provide veteran leadership to a young team. Yes, they're stopgap players, but we do have some solid people on the team who could use a little coaching and time to develop (Rudy Niswanger (C), Barry Richardson (RT), Will Franklin (WR) etc) so these players can help mentor those younger guys. As for Cassel, I didn't like the move originally and I'm still kind of on the fence about it, but it's nice to have an above average QB for a change. As to wether or not he's GREAT or FRANCHISE, well, that hasn't been determined yet. I do love the fact he's making moves though.

          Right now it's pretty sweet to be a Chiefs fan.
          Last edited by vidae; 03-27-2009, 12:08 AM. Reason: wording

          Originally posted by fenikz
          His soft D really turns me off
          ** RIP themaninblack. You will be missed. **

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by vidae-KC View Post
            We haven't for sure switched to a 3-4, but one would argue that, looking at our defensive stats from last year, didn't have the personnel to run a 4-3 either.
            LOL. True.
            "I'm Ko Simpson!"

            - Ko Simpson

            Comment


            • #7
              I think you have to give him at least one season in KC before starting this thread.

              Comment


              • #8
                *They're not 100% switching to a 3-4 in 2009.

                *Thigpen is a high school quarterback. The amount of adjustments Chan Gailey had to make for Thigpen to not fail horribly is insane. Thigpen wasn't allowed to throw the ball away. If his primary receiver wasn't open, he tucked it and ran or took a sack. Those were his instructions. Watch him prior to these adjustments, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Thigpen's not even close to the same world that Cassel's in. Thigpen can't read defenses, can't go through progressions, and just can't function in any kind of offense you can win a game in in the NFL. Cassel reads defenses, goes through progressions, makes adjustments, is one of the best prepared players in the NFL, and is a perfect fit for Haley's offense.

                *Vrabel was never really a sack guy, he's more of a do-it-all utility LB. He had a couple seasons where he racked up some sacks, but that's really not his MO. The Pats had a ton of injuries at LB (OLB in particular) in 2008, so Vrabel had zero help on top of a hodge podge secondary.

                *Waters put himself in that position. Goff and Engram are very good signings for any team. You're missing the point that Pioli is a free agent GM. He'll find low-cost free agents that have specific skills that fit what his coaches want to do, and buy into the team's winning philosophy. Signings like this and not catering to a disgruntled player are why the Patriots have 3 trophies.


                2005
                1/32 ? Logan Mankins, Guard
                3/84 ? Ellis Hobbs, Cornerback
                3/100 ? Nick Kaczur, Right Tackle
                4/133 ? James Sanders, Safety
                5/170 ? Ryan Calridge, Outside Linebacker
                7/230 ? Matt Cassel, Quarterback
                7/255 ? Andy Stokes, Tight End
                Most analysts will agree that getting 3 starters out of a draft class is considered good, with anything more being great. Keep that in mind as you look at these classes. Logan Mankins has worked out great. Ellis Hobbs, Nick Kaczur and James Sanders are solid contributors even though each could be upgraded this year. Matt Cassel is an incredible pick when you consider that they turned the 230th pick into the 34th. I just wonder why it had to be Pioli?s 34th?
                You mean 5 starters?

                2006
                1/21 ? Laurence Maroney, Running Back
                2/36 ? Chad Jackson, Wide Receiver
                3/86 ? David Thomas, Tight End
                4/106 ? Garrett Mills, Fullback
                4/188 ? Stephen Gostkowski, Kicker
                5/136 ? Ryan O?Callaghan, Tackle
                6/191 ? Jeremy Mincey, Linebacker
                6/205 ? Dan Stevenson, Guard
                6/206 ? LeKevin Smith, Defensive Linemen
                7/229 ? Willie Andrews, Cornerback

                I think we can officially call Laurence Maroney a bust. He?s oft-injured and a ballerina in the backfield. We know Chad Jackson is a bust because he got kicked to the curb last training camp. Stephen Gostkowski, a kicker, is the only solid contributor.
                You can't call a guy a bust when the reason for his lack of production is injuries. Ghost isn't a "solid contributor", he's ******* Pro Bowl kicker. And LeKevin Smith is emerging as a very good 3-4 DL.

                2007
                1/24 ? Brandon Meriweather, Safety
                4/127 ? Kareem Brown, Defensive End
                5/171 ? Clint Oldenburg, Tackle
                6/180 ? Justin Rogers, Linebacker
                6/202 ? Mike Richardson, Cornerback
                6/208 ? Justise Hairston, Running Back
                6/209 ? Corey Hilliard, Tackle
                7/211 ? Oscar Lua, LB
                7/247 ? Mike Elgin, Guard/Center

                Brandon Meriweather hasn?t shown up as the Top-15 talent with character problems that he was billed as back in 2007. The four interceptions can give Pat fans hope though. Patriots have gotten nothing other than that though. They did get Wes Welker and Randy Moss from this draft though.
                Brandon Meriweather was one of the better safeties in the NFL last year. He was easily the best defensive back on the team. You obviously have no clue. They didn't have any needs or room on their roster going into this draft, so they had to take a bunch of guys they hoped would stick on their practice squad and develop later.

                2008
                1/10 ? Jerod Mayo, Linebacker
                2/62 ? Terrence Wheatley, Cornerback
                3/78 ? Shawn Crable, Linebacker
                3/94 ? Kevin O?Connell, Quarterback
                4/129 ? Jonathan Wilhite, Cornerback
                5/153 ? Matthew Slater, Wide Receiver
                6/197 ? Bo Ruud, Linebacker

                Winning the Defensive Rookie Of The Year makes Jerod Mayo?s future look promising. He is a little overrated because his skills at shedding blocks are below average. I don?t think we should expect much out of the rest of these picks because they were all reaches. Terrence Wheatley was an especially confounding pick.
                2008 was a great draft. Mayo is going to be in the middle for the Pats for a long time. Crable was extremely promising before going to the IR. Kevin O'Connell was a highly thought-of QB prospect and is going to develop directly behind Tom Brady. Kid's going to basically go through the whole off-season preparing as the starting QB of the New England Patriots. He's going to develop quickly, and he showed a ton of potential. Wilhite turned out to be a great special teams player and is going to give incoming free agents and rookies a run for the #2 CB spot, and while I would have rather had Charles Godfrey with the Wheatley pick, Wheatley looked damn good prior to going to the IR.

                And you're missing one of the biggest reasons for Pioli's success. He's a great player evaluator, but he's an even better staff evaluator. Look at the coaches and scouts he's brought in that have gone on to much bigger roles...
                ________
                Aliviya4you
                Last edited by nepg; 09-17-2011, 07:16 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Funny the coaches you mention go on to bigger roles, have all sucked at them.

                  Thanks to The Dynasty for the sig

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Smooth Criminal View Post
                    Funny the coaches you mention go on to bigger roles, have all sucked at them.
                    Mangini did a great job with the Jets, and Charlie Weis made Notre Dame relevant again. But I was more speaking of front office guys like Dimitroff.
                    ________
                    SexyBlondyBaby
                    Last edited by nepg; 09-17-2011, 07:17 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by njx9
                      if you're talking about maroney, his lack of production is because he sucks. the injuries are incidental.
                      You're right. Averaging 4.5 yards per carry does suck.
                      **
                      2012 Patriots Anti-Draft

                      1 - Anyone but Shea McClellin, Derek Wolfe, Peter Konz, Kendall Reyes, Harrison Smith, Whitney Mercilus or a RB

                      2 Anyone but McClellin, Wolfe, Doug Martin or an OT

                      3 Anyone but Wolfe

                      **

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        you really can't overrate 3 rings no matter who you think 'won' those rings. Yes age has taken its toll on the Patriots but they have one of the best winning %'s over the last 10 years. How much does that attribute to Pioli? 2%? 25%? 13? No one knows. But he did have a very important role in the Patriot Way.

                        And you can't say anything bad about what he has done for KC as of yet. They have sucked the last 2-3 years. He is bringing the philosophy from NE which helped him win 3 Super Bowls to a franchise that badly needed reconstruction.
                        my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
                        <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
                        <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
                        <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
                        Originally posted by Hermstheman83
                        What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          That's his job. He's a homerun hitter. Teams have to respect his speed when he's in the backfield, which makes the Pats' offense nearly unstoppable. That's why they drafted him. The Patriots always have a nice stable of backs that can all do specific jobs very well.
                          ________
                          Avandia lawsuites
                          Last edited by nepg; 09-17-2011, 07:17 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by njx9
                            *yawn*

                            let me know when you've actually watched him *****-foot around the backfield and are going to do something other than quote lame stats and this might turn into an interesting discussion.
                            Oh boo-hoo. I have watched him and just because he doesn't run full steam straight ahead into the pile and gain 2 yards all the time you think he sucks. He produced when Josh "what-is-a-running-back" McDaniels gave him the chance. He's a cut-back runner and he does his job. He's the most talented running back on the Patriots by far. Sorry you can't recognize that just because you don't like his style.
                            **
                            2012 Patriots Anti-Draft

                            1 - Anyone but Shea McClellin, Derek Wolfe, Peter Konz, Kendall Reyes, Harrison Smith, Whitney Mercilus or a RB

                            2 Anyone but McClellin, Wolfe, Doug Martin or an OT

                            3 Anyone but Wolfe

                            **

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              He is a homerun hitter like Rob Deer was. 19 Homeruns, .212 average, .275 OBP, 200ks.
                              my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
                              <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
                              <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
                              <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
                              Originally posted by Hermstheman83
                              What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

                              Comment

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