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Who are the current "Franchise Quaterbacks"

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Somse View Post
    Ben Roethlisberger:


    Eli Manning:


    Roethlisberger has:
    • More passing yards on 379 less attempts
    • 62.4% completion percentage versus 55.9%
    • 7.9 yards per pass average versus 6.4
    • 89.4 QB rating versus 76.1 QB rating

    Other than 2008, Manning turned the ball over too much and was inefficient as you can tell from his low yards per pass average and completion percentage.

    Clearly, Roethlisberger is a more efficient quarterback.
    Look if you're going to use stats this a pointless argument. There's no stat that measures a QB's ability to drive his team for a score in the clutch, so there's no way to measure eli's greatest strength. Like I've said I like Big Ben, but he doesn't command his offense the way eli does his, granted he takes more shots down the field and has been successful doing so so his stats are more impressive but watching those two operate it's clear that eli's the one who runs his team better. Roethlisberger's the better weapon but eli's the better tactician and that makes him a better leader and QB. *shrug* comparing QBs is such a subjective debate that there's really no point, but if you consider one a franchise QB you have to consider the other one as well.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Somse View Post
      Huh?

      First of all the Bills started 4-0. Second of all, Trent Edwards has never even been on the radar for MVP. He didn't throw for over 300 yards ONCE last season. He had ONE multiple TD game when he threw 2 TDs. The Bills offense is also about as stagnant as you can get.
      Yeah 5-0 was a typo. But Edwards was on the MVP watch during our hot start. I remember Edwards was a guest on PTI and he was asked about it.

      He is awesome in the clutch, I think he was top 5 in 4th quarter QB percentage last year and he has already lead us to multiple comeback wins. Owner Ralph Wilson Jr. loves Edwards as does head coach Dick Jauron.

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      • #48
        I just hope Trent is fully ready and is playing the way he was to start the season. He's going to be a good one and will give the bills much needed consistency in the passing game.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Mr. Hero View Post
          Look if you're going to use stats this a pointless argument. There's no stat that measures a QB's ability to drive his team for a score in the clutch, so there's no way to measure eli's greatest strength
          Actually there is...

          Ben Roethlisberger

          2008:


          2007:


          Eli Manning

          2008:


          2007:


          Manning might have been slightly more impressive in 2008 in the 4th quarter but Roethlisberger was much better in 2007. I don't see how you can give Manning a significant edge here.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Somse View Post
            So why did you just go on a rant about how you don't need to put up good stats (like Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc.) to be a franchise quarterback? Your two posts seem to be arguing complete opposites.
            A QB doesn't need to put up those kinda numbers when he has a solid supporting cast. (i.e a good run game and good defense) If a QB has those 2, he can rely on them. Let the defense give the offense the ball, and let the run game drive down the field. All the QB has to do is make smart decisions and not turn the ball over. Look at Joe Flacco in Baltimore for a perfect example. But if your a team with not as much talent, obviously your QB needs to step up and take on a greater role like Tom Brady before he had Moss, like Drew Brees in New Orleans.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by BmoreBlackByrdz View Post
              A QB doesn't need to put up those kinda numbers when he has a solid supporting cast. (i.e a good run game and good defense) If a QB has those 2, he can rely on them. Let the defense give the offense the ball, and let the run game drive down the field. All the QB has to do is make smart decisions and not turn the ball over. Look at Joe Flacco in Baltimore for a perfect example. But if your a team with not as much talent, obviously your QB needs to step up and take on a greater role like Tom Brady before he had Moss, like Drew Brees in New Orleans.
              Right, I'm just saying the QBs who are game managers are not franchise quarterbacks. I consider franchise quarterbacks guys you build around to win championships, not guys you plug in to an already championship-caliber team.

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              • #52
                Eli is a franchise quarterback. I believe that and am not saying he isn't but I have to put my two cents in and say Eli isn't leaps and bounds better at comebacks and the such than Big Ben. He has like 19 or something in his 5 years. Biggest one being the last REAL football game any of us watched. I know Eli did the same thing, that is why I am saying you can't say he is WAY better. We aren't down or behind often but when we are inevitably, Big Ben steps up. They are ATLEAST even in that respect.


                Silverback....still the best.

                +rep to Jakey for the sig

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Somse View Post
                  Actually there is...

                  Ben Roethlisberger

                  2008:


                  2007:


                  Eli Manning

                  2008:


                  2007:


                  Manning might have been slightly more impressive in 2008 in the 4th quarter but Roethlisberger was much better in 2007. I don't see how you can give Manning a significant edge here.
                  Fourth quarter within 7 is the closest stat to what I'm talking about but eli was often protecting the lead in that situation and not driving for a score, os even those numbers are faulty. Honestly I don't really care if people recognize eli as a top ten QB, or not. I was just trying to explain that if you consider guys like Big Ben franchise QBs you should consider eli one as well if oyu want to be consistent.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mr. Hero View Post
                    Fourth quarter within 7 is the closest stat to what I'm talking about but eli was often protecting the lead in that situation and not driving for a score, os even those numbers are faulty. Honestly I don't really care if people recognize eli as a top ten QB, or not. I was just trying to explain that if you consider guys like Big Ben franchise QBs you should consider eli one as well if oyu want to be consistent.
                    How do you know Big Ben wasn't protecting leads?

                    I already explained why Big Ben is more consistent than Eli. If Eli has another season like he just had, I'll consider him on that level, but until then...

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                    • #55
                      Franchise Quarterbacks
                      Tom Brady
                      Peyton Manning
                      Ben Roethlisberger
                      Drew Brees
                      Eli Manning
                      Philip Rivers


                      On the Brink:
                      Carson Palmer (too injury prone)
                      Jay Cutler (too much drama, new team)
                      Matt Ryan (needs to prove it beyond one year)
                      Aaron Rodgers (same as Ryan)
                      Donovan McNabb (he was benched last year so he's clearly not 'untouchable')

                      On the brink, of being on the brink
                      Tony Romo
                      Joe Flacco
                      Matt Cassell
                      Last edited by Mr.Regular; 04-09-2009, 04:42 PM.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Mr.Regular View Post
                        On the Brink:
                        Carson Palmer (too injury prone)
                        Palmer is too injury prone? When was he hurt other than last season?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by BmoreBlackByrdz View Post
                          Well he is still one of the better QB's in the leauge, arguably top 2, but with the loss of Dungy and Harrison and him having a slow start last year, plus he's 33 so I could see him slowly start to decline. One thing is for sure, the Colts should soon start to groom his replacement.
                          The Colts don't need to start to groom his replacement at all. Peyton Manning is one of the most durable players in the history of sports and has done nothing to show decline. He's never been a great athlete so in his aging he may not show much decline at all. Losing Marvin Harrison (who cares?) and his teams' defensive minded motivator/father figure/organizer won't slow him down at all.

                          He's THE franchise QB.

                          BTW I agree with pretty much everything Mr. Regular has above (Except I hate when people spell it Cassell).

                          Although I think Romo's closer to being a franchise QB than we all think- we all forget that one of his "choke jobs" was a fumbled snap after he led the team down to win the game. Had that gone the other way (and 99.8% of the time it does), he'd probably be viewed differently. I usually don't believe in giving excuses or fluke plays but explain to me why your starting QB is holding there again?
                          "I'm Ko Simpson!"

                          - Ko Simpson

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                          • #58
                            I don't get how Jay Cutler can be a franchise QB for a team he hasn't played a snap for, and he hasn't touched the playoffs.

                            Sig by the sigmaster BoneKrusher. Each one is a masterpiece
                            Originally posted by BaLLiN72
                            i wish NFLDC had something like "wall to wall" where we could see Brodeur and Job's conversations.
                            Originally posted by Job
                            NFLDC would be jizzing itself non-stop.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Somse View Post
                              Palmer is too injury prone? When was he hurt other than last season?
                              When he tore his knee in the playoffs?

                              What do I win?

                              Sig by the sigmaster BoneKrusher. Each one is a masterpiece
                              Originally posted by BaLLiN72
                              i wish NFLDC had something like "wall to wall" where we could see Brodeur and Job's conversations.
                              Originally posted by Job
                              NFLDC would be jizzing itself non-stop.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by the decider13 View Post
                                When he tore his knee in the playoffs?

                                What do I win?
                                How is that being injury-prone? Doesn't matter if that's Palmer, Brady, Manning, or whoever, they're going down as well. Just bad luck and a bad offensive line in Cincinnati.

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