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  • #31
    Originally posted by 619 View Post
    I understand you were trying to make a point, but you completely undervalued a good portion of our team.

    Since when is Zach Miller a 'decent' TE?

    Together, our group of RBs is very solid and should hit the top 10 in team rushing this season. That's a bit more than I can expect from the Broncos’ group, this year at least.

    Let's not even compare the QB situations, we have a QBofTF, you do not. Our backup is arguably better than your starter, so let’s stop there.

    You trash our DL, yet what exactly do you have?

    Oh, and ‘above average’ secondary. LOL.

    Aso/CJ > Bailey/Goodman/Smith
    I’ll give you a major edge with the safeties, though.

    But other than that, you’re about right.

    Haha, Russel, QB of the future? Good luck with that Somebody that has all the physical talent in the world, but has no brains to play in today's NFL. I'll give you that I might have undervalued your TE. But my point is, everyone putting the Raiders over the Broncos based on soley the QB position is a JOKE.

    Denvers overall offensive talent > Oaklands overall offensive talent. Even if Russell and DHB did pan out, how the heck is he going to throw the ball with that offensive line? I'd say it couldn't get any worse after Kwame Harris, but its the raiders we're talking about.

    Orton > Russel and Old man
    Garcia who will be on the bench > Russell/Simms

    McFadden is a Reggie Bush type player in this league, he's soft after contact. Fargas is the only reason I'd call your running back group solid.

    Oaklands Defense isn't going to be much better than Denver's. That's my point. Niether Team has a D-line worth anything, but they have a good secondary.


    Oakland gets hyped every year by Raider Nation and they're always disappointed. Oh well, a lot more fun that way I guess.
    Last edited by DenverDex; 05-25-2009, 12:33 AM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Iamcanadian View Post
      Like all homer fans, you just don't want to see the writing on the wall. Denver's defense was the equal of Detroit's last year and I'm not seeing where it was significantly improved in what is considered a very weak draft year. They are still going to give up huge amounts of yardage and points. At least last year, they had an offense that could keep them off the field occasionally, but without Cutler, the offense is very suspect.
      Orton isn't close to being a solid NFL starting QB, he far closer to a career backup QB. Orton cannot win by throwing the ball, he must have a solid running attack to be anything close to effective. Teams are going to take away the run and force Orton to beat them through the air. The OL had it easy with Cutler escapability, let's see how they function with a statue at QB. The WR's only had to get half a step for Cutler's arm to get them the ball, they are going to have to get a lot more separation with Orton throwing them the ball.
      Then there is the coaching. Will the players accept their new HC or look at him like he is some idiot who couldn't keep a good thing going. BB coordinators don't actually have a great track record for success, ask Cleveland and Notre Dame??? NE doesn't use Shanahan's blocking schemes so the OL may have to make quite a few adjustments to their new blocking assignments and there is no guarantee they all will adjust well.
      What's comical to me is that a lot of Denver fans are living in the past, so used to success that they cannot fathom that a disaster could be occurring right before their eyes but I'd have to set the odds at 70 to 30 that Denver has at least a top 10 pick and maybe even a top 5 pick after this coming season. Too bad your HC traded your 1st rounder for a nickle back, he going to add it to his lists of total blunders and I'll be shocked if he still has the job after this season. I mean, how many blunders can one man make???
      I can see realistically. I will openly state right now that Denvers defense of 2008 was the worst defense I've ever seen put on a field in the NFL. We fired the worst defensive coordinator of all time however, and that in itself is a huge upgrade for our defense. Playing a safety 30 yards down the field and giving wide recievers 10 yard cushions every game is the definition of fail. Bob "I'll be happy if we hold them to field goals" Slowik is the worst coach in a coordinator position of all time.

      Factor in we had two of our better players in DJ Williams and Champ bailey injured for a good portion of the season, and that'll help if they come back healthy next year. I'm sorry but there is no way our defense can be that bad next year. Nolan should do a solid job, and we did get some more talent, but I'm not expecting anything big from the defense considering we still don't have a line with a lot of potential.

      Cutler did make Denver's o-line better, but not by as much as you'd like to believe. Clady was one of the best LT's in the game last year, and Harris, his counterpart at RT is underrated and played lights out as well. If there's any weakness its that our center is aging, and our LG is undersized.

      As far as Josh McDaniels is concerned, yeah he's made some pretty big mistakes, but its not all on him. Cutler could have played this year with a chip on his shoulder, and for a huge contract but what did he do? He demanded a trade and decided not to be a leader of this team. I don't care how much talent he has, if he doesn't want to play for the team I love, I don't want him to.

      McDaniels made some questionable moves in the draft. All the players we got in round 1-2 are good football players, but did we reach on a couple namely Quinn and Smith? Probably.

      I'm realistic, and people that can't see that the raiders have no O-line, unproven WR's and a pretty boneheaded "QBotF" aren't.

      Also: Orton is a capable QB in this league. He isn't flashy, and probably won't ever be elite, but that "statue" will have better weapons and better protection than he ever had in Chicago. We'll see how he does, but I don't think he's as bad as everyone is making him out to be.
      Last edited by DenverDex; 05-25-2009, 12:36 AM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by DenverDex View Post
        Haha, Russel, QB of the future? Good luck with that Somebody that has all the physical talent in the world, but has no brains to play in today's NFL. I'll give you that I might have undervalued your TE. But my point is, everyone putting the Raiders over the Broncos based on soley the QB position is a JOKE.

        Denvers overall offensive talent > Oaklands overall offensive talent. Even if Russell and DHB did pan out, how the heck is he going to throw the ball with that offensive line? I'd say it couldn't get any worse after Kwame Harris, but its the raiders we're talking about.

        Orton > Russel and Old man
        Garcia who will be on the bench > Russell/Simms

        McFadden is a Reggie Bush type player in this league, he's soft after contact. Fargas is the only reason I'd call your running back group solid.

        Oaklands Defense isn't going to be much better than Denver's. That's my point. Niether Team has a D-line worth anything, but they have good secondary's.


        Oakland gets hyped every year by Raider Nation and they're always disappointed. Oh well, a lot more fun that way I guess.
        Why Orton over Rusell? Because you say so or what? You offer nothing to back that up, if you wanted to compare their first 2 seasons, which would be the only fair way to do so, they played nearly an equal amount of games, and yet Russell has better stats through their first 2, with a worse line and equally as bad receiving corp.

        Orton
        18GP 66.8 QB Rating 233 completions 448 attempts 52% completion 2347 yards 12 TD 15 INTS sacked 32 times

        Russell
        19GP 73.9 QB Rating 234 completions 434 attempts 54% completion 2796 yards 15 TD 12 INTS sacked 37 times

        and McFadden is nothing like Bush, besides their speed, McFadden is much better after contact, he also offers more as a blocker.

        Again Khalif Barnes is obviously much better than Kwame Harris, They allowsed the same # of sacks last year, but Kwame played 11 and Khalif played all 16. If we could shave 7 sacks off the left side that's more opportunity for Russell to air it out.

        Stop hating on the Raiders beause you're bitter about people blasting Denver because of their dysfunctional offseason, I hate to break it to you but there's a chance you finish worse than Oakland, get used to the idea bro or you may have a tough year ahead.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by DenverDex View Post
          So let me get this straight because I find a lot of these opinions comical.

          Denver has one of the best O-lines in the league, a great WR tandem, a solid TE group, and a talented yet partially unproven group of running backs. We traded Cutler, but still got Orton a capable system QB. Nothing special, nothing too awful either. We also are running a proven offensive system.

          But the departure of one player is going to make us worse than the Raiders? Are you serious?

          I'd like to know what drugs some of you guys are on.

          The Raiders have: No O-line, an unproven WR group, a decent TE, and a decent group of running backs. But they have a bust for a #1 overall pick QB, and a really old veteran.

          So Just because Denver doesn't have a QB with Cutler's talent, we're not going to be able to move the ball but the Raiders can? If you're going to criticize a team based soley off the QB position, at least be consistent on it, because I'm sorry to tell you our Oaklands QB situation is equal or worse than ours. The rest of Denver's offensive talent is leaps and bounds better than what they have in Oakland. That's going to be the difference.

          Oh and Oakland has no defensive line either. They have an above average secondary.

          For my own rankings. With the departure of Tony Gonzalez the chiefs will be hurt a little, but I see them on the rise. They have a good LT and a decent line.. Their defense is okay if they can get some pressure on the QB. For me its too close to call with Denver and KC. It'd be a crime if the Chargers didn't get first in this division with the talent they have on that team, and the amount of players they have in a contract year.


          The AFC west has a brutal schedule this year.

          1) Chargers 10-6
          2/3) Broncos 8-8
          2/3) Chiefs 7-9
          4) Raiders. 5-11
          Do you really have to accuse other users of being on drugs for being down on the team that traded away Jay Cutler?

          All those amazing things you listed that Denver still has...well throw in an exponentially better QB and you still have a team that struggled to 8 wins. That's including some out of the ordinary business against San Diego and New Orleans.

          In my humble opinion, they didn't do enough to fix their D, which was a sieve last year. Certainly not enough to offset the loss of Cutler. Orton struggles more as more is asked of him, and a lot is going to be on his shoulders, given how bad the D is. Transitions to a new defense are never as easy or simple as they seem, especially when you're starting from scratch like Denver is. Scratch is too harsh, they've got some building blocks in Bailey and Ayers. But I still think the point is valid.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by SubNoize View Post
            Why Orton over Rusell? Because you say so or what? You offer nothing to back that up, if you wanted to compare their first 2 seasons, which would be the only fair way to do so, they played nearly an equal amount of games, and yet Russell has better stats through their first 2, with a worse line and equally as bad receiving corp.

            Orton
            18GP 66.8 QB Rating 233 completions 448 attempts 52% completion 2347 yards 12 TD 15 INTS sacked 32 times

            Russell
            19GP 73.9 QB Rating 234 completions 434 attempts 54% completion 2796 yards 15 TD 12 INTS sacked 37 times

            and McFadden is nothing like Bush, besides their speed, McFadden is much better after contact, he also offers more as a blocker.

            Again Khalif Barnes is obviously much better than Kwame Harris, They allowsed the same # of sacks last year, but Kwame played 11 and Khalif played all 16. If we could shave 7 sacks off the left side that's more opportunity for Russell to air it out.

            Stop hating on the Raiders beause you're bitter about people blasting Denver because of their dysfunctional offseason, I hate to break it to you but there's a chance you finish worse than Oakland, get used to the idea bro or you may have a tough year ahead.
            You're right a Bush comparison to McFadden is a bad one. Bush doesn't get chased down from behind. Oh, but McFadden is a capable blocker! Awesome so is Fargas and a lot of other running backs that are on the FA market. McFadden doesn't run with toughness or power, and runs high. He's going to be a decent player but won't ever be worth the spot he was drafted at.

            Same with Russell. He might end up being a capable backup, but he's not a "QBotF" based on how he's performed on the field and has looked in the off-season. Reports are that he's performed pretty poorly in the off-season and some proof of that is in the Garcia signing. Maybe Garcia can teach him how to study the game, but I find that unlikely as Garcia is probably going to want the starting QB spot all to himself.

            Khalif Barnes is nothing special but yeah he'll be better than Harris. He'd be a pretty good RT. My main gripe with the Raiders O-line is that it played AWFUL last year, and they had the chance to pickup the steal of a lifetime in Eugene Monroe, but didn't. If the Raiders would have picked up Monroe, I'd be more willing to put Oakland in a 3 way tie with KC and Denver. Al Davis has no idea what he's doing however, and passed up on a chance to have a good off season.

            I don't hate on the Raiders because I'm bitter. I'm not bitter, Denver has had a rough off season, and I expect people to think we're going to suck. I ju st can't see how anyone can call Oakland "A team on the rise" who has gone 24-72 in the last 6 years, with really no improvement in sight.

            Orton over Russell based purely off of how Orton played last season. Orton played pretty well before his injury, and will have more tools around him than he's ever had in a more QB friendly system. He's also a hard worker according to reports and got praise by his old teammates for being a hard worker and team leader when he was traded from Chicago. Orton has at the very least proved he won't lose a game for his team, if called upon. The same can't be said for Russell.

            Again Denver's overall Offensive talent > Oakland's.

            Don't mistake me saying that I actually think Denver is going to play well enough to make the playoffs, but Oakland will be lucky to win 6 games next year. They'll split with Denver and KC, get swept by SD yet again, then beat Cleveland, Cincinnati, and maybe Houston. I'd give the Raiders credit if they deserved any but for the last 6 years its been the same story in the offseason:

            Raiders fans "OMG we're a team on the rise! The Raiders are going to be halfway decent next year"

            Season: Raiders 5-11

            Raiders fans GG T_T
            Last edited by DenverDex; 05-25-2009, 01:43 AM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
              Do you really have to accuse other users of being on drugs for being down on the team that traded away Jay Cutler?

              All those amazing things you listed that Denver still has...well throw in an exponentially better QB and you still have a team that struggled to 8 wins. That's including some out of the ordinary business against San Diego and New Orleans.

              In my humble opinion, they didn't do enough to fix their D, which was a sieve last year. Certainly not enough to offset the loss of Cutler. Orton struggles more as more is asked of him, and a lot is going to be on his shoulders, given how bad the D is. Transitions to a new defense are never as easy or simple as they seem, especially when you're starting from scratch like Denver is. Scratch is too harsh, they've got some building blocks in Bailey and Ayers. But I still think the point is valid.
              There was no way our defense could have been fixed in one off season, and if you read my posts you will see that I never said they'll be good. I know for a fact though they can't be as bad as last years because that will probably be the worst defense ever put on a field.

              The drugs phrase was merely used as a figure of speech and it isn't my intention to offend people. So I'll watch what I say in the future if that's the case and I'll edit that out of my post.

              As far as asking more out of Orton - Yeah he might be asked to do more than he did in Chicago. However, we should have a capable ground and short passing attack if he cant handle some of the bigger throws. Orton also successfully operated the no huddle really well in Chicago, if you ever get a chance watch some of the Vikings @ Chicago game from last year. Orton is a smart player, but I won't believe he'll amount to anything close to what Cutler brought this team until I see it.
              Last edited by DenverDex; 05-25-2009, 01:35 AM.

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              • #37
                The Jamarcus Russell as QBOTF talk should hold off for a lil while. I just dont think he cares enough to be anything good in this league. I actually thought the Raiders were going in the right direction (especially after steam rolling the Bucs on the ground) but then they went and drafted DHB at #7.

                So that was a good reminder that Al Davis is indeed still owning the team and that OAK prolly wont be good untill he is dead. I dont want to sound like a Jamarcus-hater but I just dont think he wants it mentally. I think this team can win 8 games with Garcia. That might even mean playoffs in the AFC.

                And then for the people ragging on Orton, you probably havent seen him play last year and are thinking of his rookie year. He was putting up numbers before he got hurt last year. Look at what Cassel did with Moss and Welker, that is what Orton has to do with Marshall and Royal.
                save Freeman

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                • #38
                  1. San Diego Chargers (9-7)
                  Wins: @OAK, MIA, DEN, OAK, KC, @CLE, @DAL, CIN, WAS
                  Losses: BAL, @PIT, @KC, @NYG, PHI, @DEN, @TEN

                  2. Kansas City Chiefs (7-9)
                  Wins: OAK, DAL, SD, DEN, BUF, CLE, @CIN
                  Losses: @BAL, @PHI, NYG, @WAS, @JAC, @OAK, PIT, @SD, @DEN

                  3. Denver Broncos (5-11)
                  Wins: CLE, @OAK, SD, OAK, KC
                  Losses: @CIN, DAL, NE, @SD, @BAL, PIT, @WAS, NYG, @KC, @IND, @PHI

                  4. Oakland Raiders (4-12)
                  Wins: NYJ, KC, CIN, BAL
                  Losses: SD, @KC, DEN, @HOU, @NYG, PHI, @SD, @DAL, @PIT, WAS, @DEN, @CLE



                  Sveen's 2015 NFL Draft Spreadsheet

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                  • #39
                    Didn't Russell show up at voluntary mini-camps at like 280?

                    I mean, I heard the guy looked like he was pregnant

                    BoneKruser with the DOPE sig

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                    • #40
                      I appreciate the Chiefs love but I think people are failing to really look at the bigger picture.

                      Over the first 8 games we could potentially be 0-8. I know every team COULD be, theoretically, but we realistically could be. This is how our first 8 games go:

                      @Ravens, Raiders, @Eagles, Giants, Cowboys, @Redskins, @Chargers, @Jags.

                      Between weeks 3 and 6 we play the entire NFC East. This is a TOUGH schedule. Don't get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic if we won 7 games, but anything more than 4 wins this year seems unlikely. Not that I don't like what we've done in the offseason/free agency/draft, for the most part I do, but with anyone would have a tough time with a schedule like ours, and I'm not sure our defense is ready for these teams.

                      Originally posted by fenikz
                      His soft D really turns me off
                      ** RIP themaninblack. You will be missed. **

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                      • #41
                        vidae. i think you give too much credit to the nfc east.
                        http://i38.tinypic.com/2aj2s7t.jpg
                        For a good time call (303) 499-7111.whitspacsig by steel man

                        United: "I actually went to the college I root for"

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by vidae-KC View Post
                          I appreciate the Chiefs love but I think people are failing to really look at the bigger picture.

                          Over the first 8 games we could potentially be 0-8. I know every team COULD be, theoretically, but we realistically could be. This is how our first 8 games go:

                          @Ravens, Raiders, @Eagles, Giants, Cowboys, @Redskins, @Chargers, @Jags.

                          Between weeks 3 and 6 we play the entire NFC East. This is a TOUGH schedule. Don't get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic if we won 7 games, but anything more than 4 wins this year seems unlikely. Not that I don't like what we've done in the offseason/free agency/draft, for the most part I do, but with anyone would have a tough time with a schedule like ours, and I'm not sure our defense is ready for these teams.
                          In this division, starting 0-8 does not necessarily mean coming in last. or third. Or even potentially second.

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                          • #43
                            People are failing to realize that the Broncos have Eddie Royal.
                            Virginia Tech.
                            ACC Champions 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010

                            Next Up: 2012

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by awfullyquiet View Post
                              vidae. i think you give too much credit to the nfc east.
                              Maybe, but I don't think so. It's hard to argue against the fact that every team in the NFC East is better than the Chiefs right now, is it? Some divisions have a team (or two!) that seems to match up well against us on paper, except the NFC East imo.

                              Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
                              In this division, starting 0-8 does not necessarily mean coming in last. or third. Or even potentially second.
                              Fair enough. :)

                              Originally posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
                              People are failing to realize that the Broncos have Eddie Royal.
                              But the Chiefs have Brandon Flowers! Who wins in this epic contest?!

                              Originally posted by fenikz
                              His soft D really turns me off
                              ** RIP themaninblack. You will be missed. **

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I think a lot of people are underestimating the broncos. Despite the huge loss of Cutler, I still feel that they will still finish 2nd in this division. The broncos will def have a change of offensive philosophy but i like the skill position players they have. I believe that Moreno will be a good runner in this league and the broncos have 2 very skilled recievers. The key is the D

                                Also, i feel that the chiefs will be better this season.

                                my standings
                                1. Chargers
                                2. Broncos
                                3. Chiefs
                                4. Raiders

                                with only the chargers going to the playoffs


                                Go Ravens!

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