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Randy Moss - Most influential football player ever?

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  • #46
    He's not Rice in longetivity, as far as dominance he may be better. Or at least it is debatable.
    Virginia Tech.
    ACC Champions 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010

    Next Up: 2012

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    • #47
      I have no problem saying Moss was a more talented and more dominant receiver than Rice ever was. Rice was playing in a groundbreaking offensive scheme with one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history with tons of offensive talent around him and he constantly got the opportunity to shine in the postseason. Moss was playing on a relatively unremarkable offense (his best teammate was a 33+ year old Chris Carter) with inconsistent quarterback play and very few opportunities to play in the post season.

      Is he the best receiver? No, Rice still holds that title. But they were equally dynamic in their respective ways, which is all the more impressive for Moss considering his situation.

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      • #48
        I'll repeat what was said earlier, Moss'd him.


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        • #49
          I never saw rice play, so my question is just how good was he? Could he take over the game like Moss, Smith, Fitz and those guys, or was he more of a marvin harrison every down doing the right thing but not exactly the most explosive or stand out?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
            I never saw rice play, so my question is just how good was he? Could he take over the game like Moss, Smith, Fitz and those guys, or was he more of a marvin harrison every down doing the right thing but not exactly the most explosive or stand out?
            I never got to see Rice play live in his prime, but being a Bay Area guy I have had the pleasure of re-watching a few 49ers seasons (I got a hold of the '86 and '90 game tapes a few years back). I suppose Fitzgerald would make a good comparison, although it's clear that in 1986, Rice's second year, people really didn't know how to cope with the guy. He made his slant cuts so quick and was so strong and sure-handed that he was getting huge seperation early in his routes and consistently turned quick passes into big gains. Rice wasn't quite as strong or large as Fitzgerald, but I think the gap between him and his competition was even greater. He was marvelous.

            edit -

            By the way, Marvin Harrison was a very explosive receiver in his prime.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by yo123 View Post
              As someone who has watched every Vikings game for as long as I can remember and now can't stand Culpepper, I can admit that he was a damn good quarterback for a stretch of a couple seasons. And Moss wasn't the only reason. In 2004 which was Daunte's best season ever by far Moss was hindered by injuries all year and didn't even reach 1,000 yards.
              But at the same time... Here's Gus Frerotte's stats for the two games as a starter with the Vikings with Moss when Cpep was injured in 2003.

              Games started: 2
              Completions: 30
              Attempts: 45
              Completion %: 66.6%
              Yards: 506
              Touchdowns: 6
              Int: 1
              QB Rating: 134.8
              Peyton Manning Fanboy
              Originally posted by Complex
              They said I couldn't be a high school QB. They said I couldn't get a D1 scholarship. BeerBaron said I couldn't beat the Bears. - Tebow

              Proving the doubters wrong.

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              • #52
                What kind of argument can you really make with a two game sample? I don't think anyone can seriously argue that Moss doesn't make a quarterback's life easier, but for a counterargument, here's Culpepper's 2004 numbers in games where Moss wasn't even on the field.

                Games started: 5
                Completions: 113
                Attempts: 166
                Completion rate: 68%
                Yards: 1179
                Touchdowns: 9
                Int: 3

                And, of course, Moss wasn't even particularly close to being Pep's leading receiver that year.

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                • #53
                  Was Culpepper even in that good of situation to succeed anyway. He got hurt, got released and went to a rebuilding franchise who faltered with a pathetic coach, got released, went to a pathetic raiders team with an even worse coach, had injury issues, came back to the lions, the worst team in NFL history and he's expected to turn in performances similar to what he did in minnesota.

                  He was great under an offensive minded coach with an excellent supporting cast and then went to the worst organisations in the NFL with bad coaches one after the other.

                  I don't know why you'd expect him to have been better.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                    Was Culpepper even in that good of situation to succeed anyway. He got hurt, got released and went to a rebuilding franchise who faltered with a pathetic coach, got released, went to a pathetic raiders team with an even worse coach, had injury issues, came back to the lions, the worst team in NFL history and he's expected to turn in performances similar to what he did in minnesota.

                    He was great under an offensive minded coach with an excellent supporting cast and then went to the worst organisations in the NFL with bad coaches one after the other.

                    I don't know why you'd expect him to have been better.
                    Before he got injured though during the 2005 season, he was performing terribly. People love to say that he faltered in Minnesota because of his knee, but in reality he was playing pretty terrible to begin with. That first game against the Buccaneers was pretty much the beginning of the Culpepper we know today. Outside of two good games against the lowly Packers and Saints that season, he really was disappointing. The departure of Linehan and center Matt Birk hurt, but it looked like Culpepper just couldn't read defenses anymore. Or rather, the league figured him out.

                    "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                    -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                    Originally posted by Borat
                    Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
                      Well without Dan Fouts and Coryell there wouldn't be deep passing as we know it, forget the defenses.

                      Deion turned the game into a show. Jim Brown played 1 v. 11, required more attention than Moss ever did. Fran Tarkenton redefined quarterbacking with his scrambling. Lawrence Taylor changed everything. The NFL's history is too long and too deep for a guy like Moss to even be considered for most influential.
                      In addition to those fine suggestions, Sammy Baugh essentially pioneered the forward pass as we know it and Don Hutson almost single handedly invented the concept of route-running.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by BamaFalcon59 View Post
                        He changed how defenses covered deep passing. And that is a big part of todays game.
                        Actually, Peyton great season when he set the record for TD passes changed how defenses defend the pass. Moss has had little impact on the game outside of a few great seasons.
                        And proud of it!!!

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                        • #57
                          Lynn Swan was more influential ? All of his 2-3 big catches he's known for right ? GTFOH. Lynn Swan never reached 900 yards in any season. So please. And Calvin Johnson is a new & improved version of Randy Moss. Bigger, stronger, faster, and you'll never have to say "when motivated" he is a great WR. Youre automatically taken out of G.O.A.T. discussion when you have to bring up a qualifier like that.

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                          • #58




                            These guys will influence you to run the other way.


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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Ness View Post
                              Before he got injured though during the 2005 season, he was performing terribly. People love to say that he faltered in Minnesota because of his knee, but in reality he was playing pretty terrible to begin with. That first game against the Buccaneers was pretty much the beginning of the Culpepper we know today. Outside of two good games against the lowly Packers and Saints that season, he really was disappointing. The departure of Linehan and center Matt Birk hurt, but it looked like Culpepper just couldn't read defenses anymore. Or rather, the league figured him out.

                              The league didn't just figure him out, that never happens, especially not after a player has one of the greatest seasons of a quarterback of all time. Yeah there were likely some issues at the beginning of the season when in the first two games he threw 8 total interceptions, he lost his Offensive Coordinator, he lost his centre and he lost his best receiver. He was out of his depth without someone who knew how to cater to him and without the guys around him who helped make him great.

                              Against Carolina the coaches were trying different things and it was working, the Culpepper was playing well and it wasn't until he went out of the game that Carolina began to dominate.

                              There is no way you can tell me that playing for Miami, Oakland and Detroit in the last three years in the state those franchises were in is the same as 02-05 minnesota and the "league figured him out"

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                                The league didn't just figure him out, that never happens, especially not after a player has one of the greatest seasons of a quarterback of all time. Yeah there were likely some issues at the beginning of the season when in the first two games he threw 8 total interceptions, he lost his Offensive Coordinator, he lost his centre and he lost his best receiver. He was out of his depth without someone who knew how to cater to him and without the guys around him who helped make him great.

                                Against Carolina the coaches were trying different things and it was working, the Culpepper was playing well and it wasn't until he went out of the game that Carolina began to dominate.

                                There is no way you can tell me that playing for Miami, Oakland and Detroit in the last three years in the state those franchises were in is the same as 02-05 minnesota and the "league figured him out"
                                I really don't have an obligation to convince you. It sounds like you have already made up your mind. Which is why I'm surprised you replied in the first place.

                                You have your opinion and I have mine.

                                "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                                -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                                Originally posted by Borat
                                Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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