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  • #61
    Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
    Not trying to sound like an asshole, but every year the saints have a new cornerback or new linebacker or several new draft picks or a new coach who's going to change things.

    I'll agree a lot of pieces of the puzzle have been added, largely due to the previous years drafting and signing so I expect an improvement, but I don't think you can simply be given benefit of the doubt, due to the track record.



    A few years ago Tom Brady never threw more than 28 touchdowns, DeAngelo Williams never had more than 500 yards and Jay Cutler was a bronco.

    We american football dude.

    Keep in mind last year the Carolina backfield as a unit produced over 5 yards per carry...

    Carolina line ranked first in both conversions on short yardage running plays with a 79 percent conversion rate and in percentage of yardage gained beyond 10 yards. In other words even in obvious running situations 4/5 times the Panthers converted and more often than anyone in the league one of the backs popped a run for more than 10 yards.

    This is with the starting offensive line only having 7 games as a complete unit.

    Behind Otah a rookie there was a DVOA average of 4.6ypc off right tackle.

    Their sacks allowed was good enough for 9th in the league.

    With a great offensive line and running game, not to mention a top 5 receiver and solid defense it's hard to see Carolina having a losing season.
    So, if I am reading this right, you are suggesting that *** Ork Wang that track record matters with the Saints but, at the same time, are saying that track record should not matter with the Panthers? I think both teams have to figure out if they can get beyond their history.

    The Saints must prove that the new additions on defense along with the presence of Gregg Williams can finally get them over the hump. My belief is that it will. If that defense is "only" marginally improved, they are a likely playoff team. For all their poor defense, they lost 6 games by a total of 18 points, and in two of those games they had missed FGs at the end, which cost them a victory. So any improvement on defense, and better play from the special teams (which they had under Hartley), should put them in position to challenge for the NFC South. That said, their schedule is daunting, and they won't have the benefit of having their starting ends for the first four weeks. The good thing is that they do have viable depth at DE, and the benefit of playing a manageable schedule for the first four weeks. They could very well walk away 3-1 going into the bye week when Will Smith and Charles Grant will return from their suspensions. I think outside of Jonathan Vilma, their linebackers are at best solid, more likely subpar. They have some young guys that they should be anxious to give a shot at cracking the starting lineup to. Guys like Jonathan Casillas, Jo Lonn Dunbar and Anthony Waters might prove more athletic in Gregg Williams' blitzing style of defense than Scott Shanle and Scott Fujita. But even with subpar backs, the team's biggest achilles heel has been their pass defense. They got to the NFC championship with Fred Thomas as a starting corner and Josh Bullocks/Jay Bellamy/Omar Stoutmire as their safeties. To take it a step further, Brian Young was their starting 3-tech. Now, they have Sedrick Ellis in his position, and have added Malcolm Jenkins, Darren Sharper, Jabari Greer and Tracy Porter (who played very well as a rookie). So, you have to think that if Williams can get this group clicking early, they can be very successful. On paper, they do look good and as though they will be a contender. Of course, the game is played on the field--a place where the Saints have found ways to underachieve the last couple of seasons (hough in their defense they were injury-riddled last year).

    The Panthers must prove they can have back-to-back winning seasons, less they become the new Atlanta Falcons. In their favor, they have 21 starters returning. Of course, they have brought as many starters back in years' past and still found having success in back-to-back seasons daunting. It is up to John Fox to motivate these guys. But I think that while they have solid starting lineups, a large part of their issues are depth as it is for most teams. This past season, Carolina was pretty much injury-free. I hope they can continue to have that fate though we know in this business that is not always realistic. The other question marks are at QB. What Jake Delhomme will we get? There is the guy who can manage games for you as long as you are running the football instead of depending on him to win games. On the other hand, there is the guy who can be erratic, sometimes even when the Panthers are winning. The offensive line is stout but outside of Duke Robinson, there are some depth issues that could haunt the Panthers should one of its starting linemen go down with a significant injury. Finally, can Richard Marshall replace Ken Lucas? I believe he can and will. He's scrappy, and, to me, has been one of the better nickel cornerbacks in the league. My concern, however, is whether or not Sherrod Martin can replace Marshall. I know that John Fox will have him prepared. But I do not know if it will be enough in year one to make a seamless transition from Lucas to Marshall and from Marshall to Martin. In a league where pass happy offenses dictate running nickel coverages 60% of the game, rookie mistakes or, worse, plain poor play from Martin could hurt the Panthers chances, especially against such a tough schedule. Oh, and I did not even mention Ron Meeks who will run a similar defense to what the Panthers ran last year despite being a recent Tampa-2 disciple. How will the transition look? Remains to be seen but history has to be weighted with deference given these question marks.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by WinslowBodden View Post
      As far as the Bears go... They will be good, possibly playoff good, but I think people may over-estimate the impact of Jay Cutler if they can't get him a wide receiver before the season starts. Marshall/Royal/Scheffler were all great targets for Cutler in Denver.
      I think people forget that Matt Forte and Greg Olsen are on the team as well, two dynamic players that will help Cutler out. He may not have elite WR targets but he does have talent around him that people are overlooking.


      Another sig courtesy of BoneKrusher

      Originally posted by JBCX
      Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Seasonticketholder View Post
        I think the Eagles are being overrated quite a bit. I think they should be a solid football team, and one of the better teams in the NFC South. But I think the addition of Jason Peters has been overrated. As good as Peters can be at times, he was below average last year. He can try to assign some of the sacks he has been credited with giving up to others. But when I watched him last season, he was repeatedly beat off the edge and looked very slow in the running game. He was certainly not the force we all saw in 2007. I think he can rebound and play comptently. But will he become the dominant force he was in 2007? Remains to be seen.

        The loss of Brian Dawkins will hurt from a leadership standpoint. I think Demps, and the addition of Sean Jones will allow for the Eagles to continue to play well on defense. But Dawkins was the emotional leader of the defense, and his energy will be missed.

        McNabb is always a question mark. Will he play like a top five QB or be erratic? The addition of Maclin could help but I think he will impact special teams more this year than the passing game. Westbrook's injury concerns also cannot be overlooked when judging the Eagles.

        I know some people are also pointing to the loss of Jim Johnson. I actually like Sean McDermott. I had him as one of the top guys that I wanted for the open DC position for my team. I like the guy we chose better. But I think McDermott is an up and coming defensive mind who has years of experience working under Johnson. I think he'll bring Johnson's intensity to the game, and should also be able to recapitulate his scheme quite well. Where I do think he might struggle is having Johnson's wisdom to make the right call in certain situations. But I expect him to grow in this regard with experience.
        Originally posted by Seasonticketholder View Post
        So, if I am reading this right, you are suggesting that *** Ork Wang that track record matters with the Saints but, at the same time, are saying that track record should not matter with the Panthers? I think both teams have to figure out if they can get beyond their history.

        The Saints must prove that the new additions on defense along with the presence of Gregg Williams can finally get them over the hump. My belief is that it will. If that defense is "only" marginally improved, they are a likely playoff team. For all their poor defense, they lost 6 games by a total of 18 points, and in two of those games they had missed FGs at the end, which cost them a victory. So any improvement on defense, and better play from the special teams (which they had under Hartley), should put them in position to challenge for the NFC South. That said, their schedule is daunting, and they won't have the benefit of having their starting ends for the first four weeks. The good thing is that they do have viable depth at DE, and the benefit of playing a manageable schedule for the first four weeks. They could very well walk away 3-1 going into the bye week when Will Smith and Charles Grant will return from their suspensions. I think outside of Jonathan Vilma, their linebackers are at best solid, more likely subpar. They have some young guys that they should be anxious to give a shot at cracking the starting lineup to. Guys like Jonathan Casillas, Jo Lonn Dunbar and Anthony Waters might prove more athletic in Gregg Williams' blitzing style of defense than Scott Shanle and Scott Fujita. But even with subpar backs, the team's biggest achilles heel has been their pass defense. They got to the NFC championship with Fred Thomas as a starting corner and Josh Bullocks/Jay Bellamy/Omar Stoutmire as their safeties. To take it a step further, Brian Young was their starting 3-tech. Now, they have Sedrick Ellis in his position, and have added Malcolm Jenkins, Darren Sharper, Jabari Greer and Tracy Porter (who played very well as a rookie). So, you have to think that if Williams can get this group clicking early, they can be very successful. On paper, they do look good and as though they will be a contender. Of course, the game is played on the field--a place where the Saints have found ways to underachieve the last couple of seasons (hough in their defense they were injury-riddled last year).

        The Panthers must prove they can have back-to-back winning seasons, less they become the new Atlanta Falcons. In their favor, they have 21 starters returning. Of course, they have brought as many starters back in years' past and still found having success in back-to-back seasons daunting. It is up to John Fox to motivate these guys. But I think that while they have solid starting lineups, a large part of their issues are depth as it is for most teams. This past season, Carolina was pretty much injury-free. I hope they can continue to have that fate though we know in this business that is not always realistic. The other question marks are at QB. What Jake Delhomme will we get? There is the guy who can manage games for you as long as you are running the football instead of depending on him to win games. On the other hand, there is the guy who can be erratic, sometimes even when the Panthers are winning. The offensive line is stout but outside of Duke Robinson, there are some depth issues that could haunt the Panthers should one of its starting linemen go down with a significant injury. Finally, can Richard Marshall replace Ken Lucas? I believe he can and will. He's scrappy, and, to me, has been one of the better nickel cornerbacks in the league. My concern, however, is whether or not Sherrod Martin can replace Marshall. I know that John Fox will have him prepared. But I do not know if it will be enough in year one to make a seamless transition from Lucas to Marshall and from Marshall to Martin. In a league where pass happy offenses dictate running nickel coverages 60% of the game, rookie mistakes or, worse, plain poor play from Martin could hurt the Panthers chances, especially against such a tough schedule. Oh, and I did not even mention Ron Meeks who will run a similar defense to what the Panthers ran last year despite being a recent Tampa-2 disciple. How will the transition look? Remains to be seen but history has to be weighted with deference given these question marks.
        I stopped reading once you said the Eagles are in the NFC South.


        As for overrated? I say the Dolphins and the Ravens.

        Comment


        • #64
          Ravens.

          Just look at Flacco's #s.
          "I'm Ko Simpson!"

          - Ko Simpson

          Comment


          • #65
            I'ma big Pats fan but I say the Patriots.
            I won't feel good until I see Brady on Week 1 do great.
            That ACL is no joke and regardless of reports- I need to see to believe.
            I've followed the Pats long enough to know that 95% of the things they say are BS.
            -Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Seasonticketholder View Post
              So, if I am reading this right, you are suggesting that *** Ork Wang that track record matters with the Saints but, at the same time, are saying that track record should not matter with the Panthers? I think both teams have to figure out if they can get beyond their history.
              I think it's pretty clear to everyone that I was saying track record gives the Panthers the highest likelihood of having a winning season and that the unexpected should be expected in the NFL.

              Yeah the Saints could turn it around, but for 5 years now it's been everyone's big offseason prediction and for 5 years it's been a flop.

              Originally posted by Seasonticketholder View Post
              The Saints must prove that the new additions on defense along with the presence of Gregg Williams can finally get them over the hump. My belief is that it will. If that defense is "only" marginally improved, they are a likely playoff team. For all their poor defense, they lost 6 games by a total of 18 points, and in two of those games they had missed FGs at the end, which cost them a victory. So any improvement on defense, and better play from the special teams (which they had under Hartley), should put them in position to challenge for the NFC South. That said, their schedule is daunting, and they won't have the benefit of having their starting ends for the first four weeks. The good thing is that they do have viable depth at DE, and the benefit of playing a manageable schedule for the first four weeks. They could very well walk away 3-1 going into the bye week when Will Smith and Charles Grant will return from their suspensions. I think outside of Jonathan Vilma, their linebackers are at best solid, more likely subpar. They have some young guys that they should be anxious to give a shot at cracking the starting lineup to. Guys like Jonathan Casillas, Jo Lonn Dunbar and Anthony Waters might prove more athletic in Gregg Williams' blitzing style of defense than Scott Shanle and Scott Fujita. But even with subpar backs, the team's biggest achilles heel has been their pass defense. They got to the NFC championship with Fred Thomas as a starting corner and Josh Bullocks/Jay Bellamy/Omar Stoutmire as their safeties. To take it a step further, Brian Young was their starting 3-tech. Now, they have Sedrick Ellis in his position, and have added Malcolm Jenkins, Darren Sharper, Jabari Greer and Tracy Porter (who played very well as a rookie). So, you have to think that if Williams can get this group clicking early, they can be very successful. On paper, they do look good and as though they will be a contender. Of course, the game is played on the field--a place where the Saints have found ways to underachieve the last couple of seasons (hough in their defense they were injury-riddled last year).
              So what you're saying is you've got a bunch of guys who've been hurt a lot in the past who're young and inexperienced or over the hill under a new D coord.

              Try using the ENTER key. I can't read much more than a few lines of yours without getting a headache.

              Originally posted by Seasonticketholder View Post
              The Panthers must prove they can have back-to-back winning seasons, less they become the new Atlanta Falcons. In their favor, they have 21 starters returning. Of course, they have brought as many starters back in years' past Wrong

              and still found having success in back-to-back seasons daunting Every team in the NFL finds it daunting.

              It is up to John Fox to motivate these guys. He's known for being a motivator

              But I think that while they have solid starting lineups, a large part of their issues are depth as it is for most teams. This past season, Carolina was pretty much injury-free. Massive issues on the offensive line only 7 games with all 5 starters on the field, there were injuries at cornerback, Beason played something like 4 games with a torn shoulder and the defensive tackle position was decimated. There were massive injuries. The team overcame.

              I hope they can continue to have that fate though we know in this business that is not always realistic. The other question marks are at QB. What Jake Delhomme will we get? There is the guy who can manage games for you as long as you are running the football instead of depending on him to win games. On the other hand, there is the guy who can be erratic, sometimes even when the Panthers are winning. His stats are bad because it's a run first offense and when he is passing it's generally down field deep where the windows are smaller and the likelihood of interceptions is higher. He had one meltdown last year, the rest of the time he was a good QB, the team didn't go 12-4 because Delhomme got sick. Before this Arizona game he was known for having a knack for comebacks and in the post season. You don't throw out a decent career for one game. Sure he's up and down, but he's not a detriment for the team by any means.

              The offensive line is stout but outside of Duke Robinson, there are some depth issues that could haunt the Panthers should one of its starting linemen go down with a significant injury. Wharton can play either tackle spot as can Otah and Gross, Vincent can play either guard spot and the team is bringing in Cadogan as well, there's depth and the line is flexible, we only got rid for 2 guys from the backup positions in Bridges for off field stuff and Hangartner who was a huge loss.

              Finally, can Richard Marshall replace Ken Lucas? I believe he can and will. He's scrappy, and, to me, has been one of the better nickel cornerbacks in the league. My concern, however, is whether or not Sherrod Martin can replace Marshall. I know that John Fox will have him prepared. But I do not know if it will be enough in year one to make a seamless transition from Lucas to Marshall and from Marshall to Martin. In a league where pass happy offenses dictate running nickel coverages 60% of the game, rookie mistakes or, worse, plain poor play from Martin could hurt the Panthers chances, especially against such a tough schedule. Oh, and I did not even mention Ron Meeks who will run a similar defense to what the Panthers ran last year despite being a recent Tampa-2 disciple. How will the transition look? Remains to be seen but history has to be weighted with deference given these question marks.
              The team has light weight, fast swarming linebackers, three defensive ends who fit in Meek's system and cornerbacks and safeties with experience in the system... It won't be an issue.

              Harris and Godfrey have been in a cover 2 before, Martin played in one in college as did CJ Wilson who will see time at Nickel, the linebackers are one of the best groups in the NFL and Meeks is a master at getting good play from less than stellar players, imagine what he can do with this defense which is staffed with solid contributors.

              You're saying question marks abound, but they're the same questions people had last year, which were answered resoundingly. 12-4... That doesn't go away because the team's QB has one bad game, a D Coord universally hated by the fans and a few backups leave.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                Yeah the Saints could turn it around, but for 5 years now it's been everyone's big offseason prediction and for 5 years it's been a flop.
                Besides the one time they made it to the NFCC

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by WinslowBodden View Post
                  As far as the Bears go... They will be good, possibly playoff good, but I think people may over-estimate the impact of Jay Cutler if they can't get him a wide receiver before the season starts. Marshall/Royal/Scheffler were all great targets for Cutler in Denver.
                  I highly doubt Royal and Scheffler will be much of anything without Cutler. Marshall is a great talent no doubt.

                  As for overrated, I'll go with the Packers. Foxsports has them ranked as the 9th best team in the league, and the Bears as the 20th best team in the league. That's the dumbest ******* thing I've heard in a long time.
                  Last edited by bearsfan_51; 07-26-2009, 07:02 AM.


                  Nobody cares about your stupid fantasy team.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by superman8456 View Post
                    I'm not a huge fan of the Ravens this season. They lost a lot, but had players that can step in. I'm just not sure those players can play like the players that left. Rex Ryan is also a top 3 DC in the NFL.

                    Patriots are being SOO overrated. Its really annoying. People expect Tom Brady to comeback from his torn ACL like nothing happened, but I believe its going to effect his play next season.
                    Clearly you don't like NE....That is fine....Overrated is a stretch. They are one of ther top teams this year. They have the best head coach in the game. Brady doesn't have to carry this team.....They were talented enough to get 10 wins without him last year......With brady you figure they win a minimum of 11 games......Actually I think they will be 12-4 or 13-3......He doesn't have to be a stud for the Pats to win!

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ricowboy View Post
                      Clearly you don't like NE....That is fine....Overrated is a stretch. They are one of ther top teams this year. They have the best head coach in the game. Brady doesn't have to carry this team.....They were talented enough to get 10 wins without him last year......With brady you figure they win a minimum of 11 games......Actually I think they will be 12-4 or 13-3......He doesn't have to be a stud for the Pats to win!
                      My concern with the Patriots is the loss of Vrabel. He was never an "Amazing" player, but he could play all 4 LB positions and had a knack for causing several teams issues.

                      I think their pass rush is going to be a bit stymied especially if Adalius Thomas doesn't stay healthy... again.

                      Yeah, I play WoW too.[/CENTER]

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                        The saints on this board are being given more props than any other team in the south and unjustifiably so. They've been expected to fire for a while now since their NFCCG appearance and are yet to do so.

                        There's no reason to expect Carolina or Atlanta to fall off. The Saints are still third in the division and Carolina and Atlanta are still two of the top teams in the NFC.
                        I think this guy disagrees.

                        Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji


                        DEATH NOTE MAFIA SIGNUP!

                        Originally posted by njx9
                        oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.

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                        • #72
                          The reason that I thin Atlanta falls off is due to their schedule and teams adjusting to Ryan. They're not playing Detroit, St. Louis, Oakland and Kansas City this year. Instead, they have to play the Giants, Eagles and the Patriots. Ryan had a bad December, but Gonzalez should help.
                          I am staying away from Turner this year in fantasy football, because of his high workload the year before and what I said before about their schedule. I don't think the Falcons are overrated, but I think they finish 8-8.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by MidwayMonster31 View Post
                            The reason that I thin Atlanta falls off is due to their schedule and teams adjusting to Ryan. They're not playing Detroit, St. Louis, Oakland and Kansas City this year. Instead, they have to play the Giants, Eagles and the Patriots. Ryan had a bad December, but Gonzalez should help.
                            I am staying away from Turner this year in fantasy football, because of his high workload the year before and what I said before about their schedule. I don't think the Falcons are overrated, but I think they finish 8-8.
                            I think people are too concerned about the harder SOS for the Falcons. Yes, the Falcons played a lot of bad teams last year, but it was through no fault of their own. Once given the easy schedule, the Falcons did what any other good team would have done: stomp on the bad teams. The Falcons were a combined 255-175 in 9 games against teams 8-8 or worse (average score: 28.3 to 19.4) and went 7-2, losing games in New Orleans and against the Broncos (both 8-8).

                            Even against the harder teams in the NFL, the Falcons held their own for the most part after disasters in Tampa Bay and Carolina in week 2 and 4, which can almost be expected. The Falcons were a young team and their first 2 road games were against division rivals with tough, tough defenses(despite that though, the Falcons were within 1 possession in the 4th for both games). Look at the other 3 losses.

                            Eagles in Philly. Ryan lead the Falcons to a 4th quarter, 84 yard drive that included a 4th and 5 conversion to bring the score within 6. The results of the 5 previous Falcon drives before that one? 4 punts and 1 interception. On the opposing possession, the Falcons defense got the ball back for the offense with about 2:15 on the clock remaining when the 'muffed' punt call happened. The PR closed in on the ball but backed away without actually touching the ball. The refs called it a fumble and Mike Smith was either out of timeouts or challenges and since it wasn't under 2:00 (15 ******* seconds off), it could not be reviewed. The Falcons let up and the Eagles scored another go ahead TD. I am not saying that the Falcons would have won that game (though I am pretty convinced Ryan could have led a GW drive), but the Falcons should have had the ball, while down by 6, with 2:00 to go in Philly. Not bad for a team predicted to get the #1 overall pick against the team that went to the NFCCG.

                            Broncos in Atlanta. A close game throughout, but a 4th quarter turnover by Ryan was difficult to overcome. Cutler found a receiver for a GW TD with around 7 minutes to go for a 24-20 lead. On the last possession for the Falcons, the Falcons found themselves on a 3rd and 18 when Ryan threw a perfect bomb to Roddy White for the TD, but the ball literally bounced right off of White's hands. Had that been a catch, the Falcons would have been up by 3 with 1:00 to go.

                            Saints in New Orleans. An even closer game throughout, this game featured many lead changes but the Falcons could not overcome the 90+ yard kickoff return (a TD following that) in the 4th quarter. After punting on a decisive 4th and 5, the Falcons defense couldn't get a stop and the Falcons lost 24-29.

                            Playoff Cards in Arizona. After being down 14-3 and then 30-17, the Falcons finally showed life when they drove 60 yards in 9 plays to score a TD in the 4th quarter. The Cardinals got the ball back with about 3:00 to go and the defense forces them into a 3rd and 16 situation with 2:30 to go. On the 3rd down play, Brooking bites on the underneath route and the Cardinals convert a ******* 3rd and 16 and the Falcons offense doesn't get a chance to see the ball again.

                            Now, it may seem as if I am just spewing out a bunch of excuses for the Falcons' losses, but that isn't the point. I am just trying to point out that even in the Falcons' losses, they showed a great amount of team chemistry and talent by never being out of a game against a good opponent. A correct call or a defensive stop coupled with an even better offense could make all the difference. [sorry for the long post. i just needed to get a lot of falcons talk out]
                            Last edited by d34ng3l021; 07-26-2009, 04:48 PM.

                            "He's the leader of the next great class of NFL players." - John Elway on Matt Ryan

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
                              Besides the one time they made it to the NFCC
                              Are you going to just continue to repeat what I've said?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                                Are you going to just continue to repeat what I've said?
                                well in the last five years they made it into the NFCC once, its not like the Browns or something that havent done anything in forever

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