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  • #16
    People act like the Patriots didn't drop off much last year. They went from almost being 19-0 to 11-5 and not making the playoffs...

    Is that totally because Brady got injured and Cassel started. Probably not, but it's pretty clear that Cassel, despite playing well, was no Brady.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Geo View Post
      Granted it was his first season as a starter since high school.
      Everytime i think about that i find it absolutely mind boggling.

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      • #18
        The problem is that the current perception of Orton skews negative because of how terrible his supporting cast in Chicago was.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
          The problem is that the current perception of Orton skews negative because of how terrible his supporting cast in Chicago was.
          I half agree, because the Wrs given to him were never very good. Basically the garbage heap Wrs were starting for the Bears last year...yet he pulled of a pretty decent season. The other half is that he has some things to work on, but its mostly being more of an offensive player than a game control Qb. I really like Orton, he works hard and wont lose you a game. I have seen that he wont win a game either, but he showed last year before his injury that he has the ability to show some offensive power AND he can take the team down the field to win a game (ATL even though we lost it was not Ortons fault). Orton put the team in a few positions to win last year, but playcalling after we got the lead was so conservative that we lost (I wanna say Carolina game).

          If I were Bronco fans, I would be mildly happy because Orton is not a terrible QB. He'll suprise some people this year.

          Originally posted by BeansDooma
          who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?

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          • #20
            If you examine who makes the playoffs and who doesn't year in and year out, you will find that the NFL is a QB/schedule league. If you have a franchise QB, there is a very good chance that your team will make the playoffs nearly every year, if your team is a well run organization. If your team lacks a franchise QB or isn't a well run organization, you will be lucky to make the playoffs once every 4 years.
            Great QB's make the players around them better and most are great through their leadership, mental toughness, quick release and great throwing ability.
            IMO, you could put a Brady or a Peyton on any team in the NFL that is a well run organization, and you would find their new team on top of the pile no matter how weak their personnel is. There is a reason why NFL GM's continually draft QB's with the #1 overall pick even though they are often flops, each NFL GM knows that if he strikes it rich, his team will be a SB contender for at least a decade. A team can have a great OL and great WR's but without a franchise QB, it isn't going too far in the playoffs and certainly will never make it back to playoffs anytime soon. Denver fans will quickly discover what it means to lose a franchise QB and aren't likely to see the playoffs until Cutler is replace by another franchise QB.
            And proud of it!!!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by FlyingElvis View Post
              This guy will be a good study in that area, too.

              He will be fine he has a Toomer a well dressed Toomer.:)

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              • #22
                A great Quarterback can suceed, to a high level, without the supporting cast. It is rarer for a poor Quarterback to suceed with the supporting cast. Look at the Superbowl winning Quarterbacks from this decade.

                Ben Roethlisberger
                Eli Manning
                Peyton Manning
                Ben Roethlisberger
                Tom Brady
                Tom Brady
                Brad Johnson
                Tom Brady
                Trent Dilfer
                Kurt Warner

                There you have it. Brad Johnson is the last not great Quarterback to win the Superbowl, and only two aren't considered to be very good Quarterbacks.

                A team will do well with a poor Quarterback as long as they are very good in most other areas (like New England last year). A great Quarterback with a poor team (like New England at the start of the decade) will do better.
                Originally posted by George Carlin

                In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

                In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Geo View Post
                  Those pics are an awesome touch though. Cassel should be included as well.

                  Cassel was the most-sacked QB last season and he wasn't effective in the red zone either. Granted it was his first season as a starter since high school. But that was with the veteran-laden Patriots except for maybe the right tackle.

                  (Say something about the Patriots/Brady that they can win 11 games with a QB who didn't start since high school?)

                  Maybe Haley can help him get rid of the ball quicker, and he could improve with the increased experience.

                  But the above is why I'm avoiding Cassel in fantasy football this year, I want to see how he looks for a season first.
                  I'm not shying away, but mine are keeper leagues. He is also going late enough to be considered a flier and I'm big on drafting 3 QBs. That round 13 or 14 WR is not likely to ever see the starting lineup anyway, so why not?

                  He improved on a weekly basis. It was pretty wild to watch actually, and I think the Chiefs will be very happy with the trade as long as they expect exactly what you mention - a guy who can get it done but still has some improvements to make. All of which is just a matter of experience. Just ask Randy - though I doubt he'll admit to his curios case of gator arms in the first 2 weeks after Brady went down. Once he saw some hope he started playing hard again. lol
                  Originally posted by Splat420 View Post
                  He will be fine he has a Toomer a well dressed Toomer.:)
                  Love that signing. Bowe w/Bradley (developing fairly well) and Toomer is a nice 3wr set, imo.

                  Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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                  • #24
                    I like the Chiefs depth at WR alot better then most I'm more worried about their OL.

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                    • #25
                      I like them, too. In the context of this thread the WRs are still a downgrade in the supporting cast. OL is, as well and the D . . . well, the Pats were ok but not great last year which is still probably better than what KC fielded in 08.

                      For Orton it's a clear upgrade at WR, close enough to call it even at OL, and a major downgrade on the defensive side of the ball.

                      Cutler has a clear downgrade at WR, even OL and major upgrade on D.

                      Those two really make it a more comparable scenario, imo. Cassel's situation is a little tougher to compare because you can't really mark him up against Brady and the Pats offense overall is more experienced & proven than KC's.

                      Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by FlyingElvis View Post
                        Cutler has a clear downgrade at WR, even OL and major upgrade on D.
                        Tis true, but he has an upgrade at TE and at RB, both positions that have some depth on this roster which will hopefully give him some help on the offensive side of the ball.


                        Another sig courtesy of BoneKrusher

                        Originally posted by JBCX
                        Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by sweetness34 View Post
                          Tis true, but he has an upgrade at TE and at RB, both positions that have some depth on this roster which will hopefully give him some help on the offensive side of the ball.
                          Correct. I'm not sure how I managed to overlook the RB position.

                          TE I'd say is close, although I'll concede Olsen is the better talent & higher upside. However, the production was in favor of Scheff last year (645 yds vs. 574) despite missing 3 games, so I'm not quite willing to call that one just yet.

                          Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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                          • #28
                            not just looking at Olsen, Clark is a very good TE and above average, i believe he leads the TEs in YPC over the last few years.

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                            • #29
                              A good point . . .





                              lol

                              Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                                I think we will have a good look at which makes the other better based on the performance of this man:



                                He has been a mediocre QB his entire career, he actually had "decent" stats last year. Now he will be on an offense that is:

                                1) QB friendly, lots of screens and quick passes,
                                2) Has legitimate weapons like Marshall, Royal, Scheffler,
                                3) Has one of the best offensive lines in football, he may not even be touched by a defensive lineman.

                                How much is QB performance based on the supporting cast? I guess we will find out.
                                I think it is safe to say supporting cast helps a lot.

                                1,236 passing yards
                                63% completion percentage (by far the highest of his career)
                                7-1 TD/INT ratio
                                97.4 Passer Rating
                                5-0 Team, two games ahead of the Chargers

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