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  • #31
    Drew Brees says that defense also helps with how you are looked at as a qb


    Saints 2014 draft wish list:
    - No pass rusher till the fourth round (or preferably at all)
    - Corner or Wideout in the first
    - No reaching
    - No Kelvin Benjamin

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    • #32
      What has ever happened to Eddie Royal

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      • #33
        It has mostly to do with the supporting cast.

        Let's look first at Tom Brady. The guy was a great quarterback with average/below average receivers and a non-existent running game. Then he gets Randy Moss and Wes Welker and he puts up one of, if not, the greatest single season by a quarterback.

        Then look at Peyton Manning. He's been one of the best quarterbacks in football his whole career. However, the Colts have constantly been surrounding him with great talent. That's not to say he wouldn't be good without Wayne, Clark, etc. Does anyone think he'd be having MVP type seasons if he played for Oakland or St. Louis?

        No matter how good a quarterback is, they can only perform (statistically) as well as their supporting cast lets them. If your offensive line is a revolving door and your receivers can't run routes or create separation you can't succeed. On the other hand, any competent quarterback can put up good numbers if he is protected well and has receivers that can get open.

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        • #34
          Eddie Royal tore it up last week with a 9 reception 90 yard game. I think he was hampered by an injury and it looking back to his true amazingness form.

          If Cassel had orton's O line the Chiefs would be 5-0.
          my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
          <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
          <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
          <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
          Originally posted by Hermstheman83
          What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by P-L View Post
            It has mostly to do with the supporting cast.

            Let's look first at Tom Brady. The guy was a great quarterback with average/below average receivers and a non-existent running game. Then he gets Randy Moss and Wes Welker and he puts up one of, if not, the greatest single season by a quarterback.
            Tom Brady was an average/above average qb with post season success before getting Welker/Moss. He was never amazing until that one season. The fact that his TD-INT ratio is one of the best ever helps but that only godly stat he had before 2007.

            Then look at Peyton Manning. He's been one of the best quarterbacks in football his whole career. However, the Colts have constantly been surrounding him with great talent. That's not to say he wouldn't be good without Wayne, Clark, etc. Does anyone think he'd be having MVP type seasons if he played for Oakland or St. Louis?
            P-L, I don't want to make this a Manning/brady debate but the Colts were the Rams before they got Manning. Manning is the reason, and only reason they are they are nd have been the last 10 years. it can be argued that Manning made Harrison who he is, Wayne who he is and Clark who he is. He has made Austin Colle and Pierre Garcon look better than Welker and Moss thisy ear. Every season of his career has Manning had had more than 62 comp %(other than his rookie year), 3500 yards, 25 TDs. Manning could go the the Ram right now and make them a 8-8 team, could Tom? **** NO! Prove me wrong please?

            No matter how good a quarterback is, they can only perform (statistically) as well as their supporting cast lets them. If your offensive line is a revolving door and your receivers can't run routes or create separation you can't succeed. On the other hand, any competent quarterback can put up good numbers if he is protected well and has receivers that can get open.
            To me, manning is the only exception to the rule. He could go to he Rams, the Browns and make them at least an 8-8 team. I have never seen a player in any team sport do what he does. I am not saying he is the goat. But you can put him on any team and they will matter.
            Sorry P-L. I still heart you.
            my scent?...like making love to a lumberjack
            <TACKLE> i will ngata give you a bj raji
            <+BOE> Scott, with Burfict's character concerns (whether legit or not) you think Pioli would draft him. :D
            <+ScottWright> Why not. Baldwin does need a sparring partner...
            Originally posted by Hermstheman83
            What's with the hate on Ricky Stanzi? Those youtube clips of him with the hulk hogan theme music instantly make him better than Luck.

            Comment


            • #36
              So then why did you turn it into a Manning and Brady debate?

              I should've have known this would happen when I picked those two as my examples. I wasn't trying to compare the two. I just used them both as examples because they are the top two players at their position.

              I know there will be a lot of disagreement, but I don't believe that quarterbacks can make their receivers significantly better. Does it help when you have a quarterback that throws you the ball accurately? Absolutely. However, the receiver still needs to run good routes and get separation (in order for the quarterback to decide to throw him the ball). Once the quarterback decides to throw him the ball, the receiver has to actually catch it. A good quarterback helps his receivers, but not nearly as much as a good receiver helps a quarterback. A good receiver can bail out a quarterback that makes a bad pass, usually. A good quarterback cannot bail out a receiver who drops the ball or can't get separation from the defender.



              Although this doesn't have to do with the topic at hand, I just wanted to respond to your thoughts that Manning could make the Rams or Browns an 8-8 team. First you said that the Colts were the Rams before they got Manning. Well that may be true, but Manning didn't turn them into an 8-8 team in his first year. He went 3-13 in his rookie season. Then they drafted Edgerrin James the following year and Reggie Wayne, Ryan Diem, and Rick DeMulling two years later. Manning was able to turn the Colts around quickly (13-3 in his second year), but he also had help. Edgerrin James ran for 1500 yards and 13 TD that year. The defense also stepped up with 41 sacks, 10 interceptions, and 14 forced fumbles.

              Obviously, a quarterback of Manning or Brady would make a team like the Rams better but not 5-8 wins better. No matter who is playing quarterback, St. Louis doesn't have the offensive line or defense to win 8 games.

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              • #37
                The fact that people actually argue who is more important between the QB and the other 10 players on the field tells you that QB is easily the most important single position.

                Comment


                • #38
                  QB QB QB.

                  For Orton, we need to get one thing straight: He is far from a terrible QB. Terrible QBs are afraid to move the ball, they make bad decisions, and ultimately never do anything right. Orton is actually very solid. He's able to move the ball efficiently down the field, he does not turn the ball over, and we just saw him lead a 98-yard drive against the Patriots. Bad QBs don't do that.

                  Bad QBs make their supporting cast look terrible. Take David Carr for example. I think one year, Carr was getting shitkicked again, and he got pulled or hurt or something. Sage Rosenfels, I think(who is himself not a great QB by any means), came in and performed much, much better. Let's be real here. As bad as Houston's OL got the rep of being, that was all David Carr. He is/was a terrible quarterback. Great QBs make the OL look better than it is. Look at Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Jay Cutler(at the very least on his way to becoming aforementioned great QB). They all move well in the pocket and get rid of the ball fast, making their OL's job that much easier.

                  QB. All day, every day.


                  Originally posted by Scott Wright
                  Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
                  Originally posted by njx9
                  do i tell you when to flip the burger?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    IMO, its got to be supporting cast and system. You can put Peyton on the Raiders, Rams or Browns and he would be struggling. A good QB needs weapons (preferably a good running attack and a TE who can catch in the flats) and a good line.


                    Originally posted by bearsfan_51
                    Show me your Wang, if you will.

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                    • #40
                      I'll rephrase my argument by saying great QB with terrible supporting cast>>terrible QB with great supporting cast.


                      Originally posted by Scott Wright
                      Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
                      Originally posted by njx9
                      do i tell you when to flip the burger?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Supporting cast IMO is by far more important. I'll use Dilfer and the '00 Ravens as my prime example.

                        "Dying ain't much of a living, boy" -Josey Wales
                        Originally posted by TitanHope
                        R4L does security, and strips on the weekend.
                        He told me the best part is being able to wear the same uniform to both jobs.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by raiderz4life View Post
                          Supporting cast IMO is by far more important. I'll use Dilfer and the '00 Ravens as my prime example.
                          But the thing is, the Ravens supporting cast never made Dilfer look like something he wasn't.


                          Originally posted by Scott Wright
                          Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
                          Originally posted by njx9
                          do i tell you when to flip the burger?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
                            But the thing is, the Ravens supporting cast never made Dilfer look like something he wasn't.
                            What I'm trying to say is that a supporting cast is more important...a QB doesn't have to be the focal point of a team. Dilfer did his job but was never looked upon to lead the team. They ran Jamaal Lewis and the D. All they had Dilfer do was hand-off and throw when it was absolutely neccessary.

                            "Dying ain't much of a living, boy" -Josey Wales
                            Originally posted by TitanHope
                            R4L does security, and strips on the weekend.
                            He told me the best part is being able to wear the same uniform to both jobs.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by slightlyabroncosfan View Post
                              I'll rephrase my argument by saying great QB with terrible supporting cast>>terrible QB with great supporting cast.
                              Maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't Troy Aikman horrible before Dallas revamped their entire offense?


                              Originally posted by bearsfan_51
                              Show me your Wang, if you will.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by aNYtitan View Post
                                Maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't Troy Aikman horrible before Dallas revamped their entire offense?
                                I don't want to start an argument here, but Aikman was never as great as the other elite QBs of the modern era. Hard to make an argument around him either way.

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