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  • QB or Supporting Cast?

    I think we will have a good look at which makes the other better based on the performance of this man:



    He has been a mediocre QB his entire career, he actually had "decent" stats last year. Now he will be on an offense that is:

    1) QB friendly, lots of screens and quick passes,
    2) Has legitimate weapons like Marshall, Royal, Scheffler,
    3) Has one of the best offensive lines in football, he may not even be touched by a defensive lineman.

    How much is QB performance based on the supporting cast? I guess we will find out.


  • #2
    Originally posted by Shiver View Post
    I think we will have a good look at which makes the other better based on the performance of this man:



    He has been a mediocre QB his entire career, he actually had "decent" stats last year. Now he will be on an offense that is:

    1) QB friendly, lots of screens and quick passes,
    2) Has legitimate weapons like Marshall, Royal, Scheffler,
    3) Has one of the best offensive lines in football, he may not even be touched by a defensive lineman.

    How much is QB performance based on the supporting cast? I guess we will find out.
    Good topic! Plus rep for you!

    I think it's both. The QB has to be talented enough to play and start in the NFL. After that you have to have a system that's designed very well. By that I mean.

    1. Terminology for the system
    2. Routes for the skill guys
    3. Progressions and reads for the QB.


    Those are just 3 out of a lot of different variables. But you want it to be Qb friendly and make sense.. For instance..

    You can't have 3 step drop if all the routes are deep routes, ie vertical stretch concept. On the same token you are not going to run a 7 step drop and have everyone run slants.. So the # of drops should be coorelated to the routes. And that effects pass protection to a certain extent too. So once all that is designed well, you need to have an OC AND position coaches who can teach it. If they are not good teachers than right away you have a problem. Another aspect is how organized is the OC.. How does he organize his plays on his call sheet? Who much does the HC butt in?

    Those are just some of the variables when it comes to system design and implementation. Now you have to have a decent to great cast to surround that QB so it makes his life easier based on the individual 1 on 1 matchups.

    I would say it's both when you analyze it. For Broncos specific it will be interesting to see what they run now. I know I will be interested to break some games down to get an idea of what they are running in their running game, and passing game.
    Last edited by NY+Giants=NYG; 08-12-2009, 09:54 AM.

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    • #3
      Im gonna miss Orton somehow

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      • #4
        Eli Manning says it's the supporting cast.

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        • #5
          Tom Brady says why choose when you can have both?


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          • #6
            Originally posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
            Im gonna miss Orton somehow
            No we're not. An efficient system may allow him to look like an efficient QB, but he's never once flashed the franchise QB material that Cutler has.

            Good luck Denver, seriously. Orton is unlikely to ever truly "lose" you a game, but he's never going to do anything to "win" you one either.

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            • #7
              The interesting thing about QB is that it is regarded as the most important position in professional sports yet no player in any sport is more dependent on the players around him than the Quarterback.

              A pitcher can get bad hitting but if he's pitching lights out, they can still win. Same type of thing with a goalie. A Quarterback needs his O-Line to give him time, needs his WR's to get seperation and catch the ball, needs the RB to pick up blitzes and run the ball successfuly to take off pressure, needs good play calling. If one of those things break down, the whole thing breaks down which is why football is the ultimate team game. Yes a QB can carry a team, but to a large extent, the team carries the QB no matter who it is.

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              • #8
                Thinking Orton can pull a Mark Rypien? I'd honestly be very surprised. He's going to a team with a lot of pieces in place, but the offense is new and he's going to have to build chemistry with new receivers. And like someone else said, he comes off to me as the player that won't really lose you a game, but not necessarily win you one either. I just don't see it happening for the Broncos this year.

                "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                Originally posted by Borat
                Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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                • #9
                  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that 10 players do more for one than one does for 10. No one position is as important as QB, however.

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                  • #10
                    I think Jay Cutler is included in this as well.

                    Let's see how well Cutler does in Chicago instead of Denver.
                    Pugnacity, testosterone, truculence, and belligerence.

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                    • #11
                      Cutler should be inlcuded with his move to Chicago.

                      This guy will be a good study in that area, too.





                      edit: Geo beat me to the Cutler mention as I took too long picking a picture of Cassel.
                      Last edited by FlyingElvis; 08-12-2009, 03:49 PM.

                      Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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                      • #12
                        I think its 60-40 towards the supporting cast. A qb can be as great as anyone, but you can not win football games on your own. However, a qb has to have the mindset of when and where to place the ball, but without a supporting cast, you can not do that.

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                        • #13
                          There are examples of both. Brady had some pretty mediocre receivers for years until Moss and Welker came on board. On the other end of the spectrum, some QB's look much better than they actually are because of their surrounding talent. Delhomme comes to mind with Smith, or Culpepper when he has Moss. No need to re-hash it, but look at the Eli thread for some of that whole debate.
                          Patriots, Red Sox, Celtics, Bruins, Texas Longhorns

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FlyingElvis View Post
                            edit: Geo beat me to the Cutler mention as I took too long picking a picture of Cassel.
                            Those pics are an awesome touch though. Cassel should be included as well.

                            Cassel was the most-sacked QB last season and he wasn't effective in the red zone either. Granted it was his first season as a starter since high school. But that was with the veteran-laden Patriots except for maybe the right tackle.

                            (Say something about the Patriots/Brady that they can win 11 games with a QB who didn't start since high school?)

                            Maybe Haley can help him get rid of the ball quicker, and he could improve with the increased experience.

                            But the above is why I'm avoiding Cassel in fantasy football this year, I want to see how he looks for a season first.
                            Pugnacity, testosterone, truculence, and belligerence.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BeerBaron View Post
                              No we're not. An efficient system may allow him to look like an efficient QB, but he's never once flashed the franchise QB material that Cutler has.

                              Good luck Denver, seriously. Orton is unlikely to ever truly "lose" you a game, but he's never going to do anything to "win" you one either.
                              no, i mean i miss his face. not the playing style

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