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Philip Rivers signs 6 year $92M extension.

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  • #46
    Question: Does Cutler get over $100M?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
      Question: Does Cutler get over $100M?
      Depends on his production with the Bears.

      I can't stand Rivers but he's a very good QB. Worth every penny.


      Another sig courtesy of BoneKrusher

      Originally posted by JBCX
      Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Xenos View Post
        Blue, I was wondering how you would rate Rivers' ability to read defenses. I was wondering if you could give me your analysis of his strengths and weaknesses. I know Eli does a very good job in this regard (he has to when he has to deal with the defenses of the NFC Easts).
        LOL. No disrespect to BBD, but how in god's name would he know? BBD do you have the chargers playbook on you? It's impossible to answer that question because:

        1. He doesn't have the playbook, which has the plays, progressions, and WR & TE section with routes and reads in it. He also doesn't know the hand signals that Rivers might give a WR without having to change the whole play.

        2. He doesn't have the coach's tape to see ALL the routes and what the defense is playing

        3. He doesn't have a head set to know what the exact play is, being called..



        I could be wrong, but if BBD has all these things at his disposal then he very well can answer that question very, very accurately.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
          Question: Does Cutler get over $100M?
          I would hope not he is not on that level as of now.

          Comment


          • #50
            I love Rivers, he's probably my second favorite QB in the league behind Romo (of course, homer), and he deserves every cent of this contract.

            Also, for the Aaron Rodgers talk, come back to me when he wins more than 6 games in a season. Rivers has won playoff games and been to conference championships. So, it isn't even a discussion, for me.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Xenos View Post
              Blue, I was wondering how you would rate Rivers' ability to read defenses. I was wondering if you could give me your analysis of his strengths and weaknesses. I know Eli does a very good job in this regard (he has to when he has to deal with the defenses of the NFC Easts).
              Before I post my evaluation, I don't want people to assume that Im making a comparison of him vs Eli, bc the post will come off that way. Im just stating certain things to provide a background on how its difficult to compare the 2 in an absolute sense.

              Having that said, I think he does a great job. Its hard to compare honestly, bc their responsibilities are different.

              Eli makes a lot of presnap reads, adjusts the pass protection, and comes to the line with 2 plays, so he is running a pseudo no huddle in a sense. A lot of his game comes from presnap reads, then going through his progressions.

              Phillip doesn't do the presnap adjustments Eli does. Its not that he can't, I just think they don't ask him to do it. I think he's very capable of doing so if asked to do it. The offense is also different, its more based on timing and precision of simple routes, whereas the Giants offense is more option route oriented, where the route changes upon the defense presented, and the qb and WR must read it the same way.

              So having that said, all we can really do is evaluate his ability once the ball is snapped, bc thats whats asked of him. I think he does a tremendous job. He looks off the safety, makes his progressions, almost always hits the right man, is great at putting just the right amount of touch on the ball, he's clutch, he's an excellent quarterback. I think the world of him.

              If I have to critique him, my only knocks on him are

              1. Pocket presence: he can do a better job moving around in the pocket. His pocket presence isn't bad by any stretch, but it can be better.

              2. Arm strength: he's got zip on the ball, but he'd have a hard time with consistency in windy conditions like Jersey or Chicago, maybe even Boston for that matter.

              He can zip it for the deep ball, but those intermediate slants, and out patterns, he can't zip it as well as youd want him to. He gets around this with incredible anticipation skills, so his floaters don't hurt him as much as you'd think it could. But in windy conditions, those patterns won't be executed with as much success bc of how he throws it.


              Thats about it though. He's solid. He'll get you guys a SB by the end of his career.

              I hope that answered your question.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                LOL. No disrespect to BBD, but how in god's name would he know? BBD do you have the chargers playbook on you? It's impossible to answer that question because:

                1. He doesn't have the playbook, which has the plays, progressions, and WR & TE section with routes and reads in it. He also doesn't know the hand signals that Rivers might give a WR without having to change the whole play.

                2. He doesn't have the coach's tape to see ALL the routes and what the defense is playing

                3. He doesn't have a head set to know what the exact play is, being called..



                I could be wrong, but if BBD has all these things at his disposal then he very well can answer that question very, very accurately.
                Actually, I'm glad you showed up because you're another person I wanted to ask. It's not that you need the SD playbook, but how he does against the overall defense ie. is he quick to recognize and exploit a particular defense? I mean see BBD talk about Ben's inability to read defenses very well last season so I'm curious about his take on Rivers.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                  LOL. No disrespect to BBD, but how in god's name would he know? BBD do you have the chargers playbook on you? It's impossible to answer that question because:

                  1. He doesn't have the playbook, which has the plays, progressions, and WR & TE section with routes and reads in it. He also doesn't know the hand signals that Rivers might give a WR without having to change the whole play.

                  2. He doesn't have the coach's tape to see ALL the routes and what the defense is playing

                  3. He doesn't have a head set to know what the exact play is, being called..



                  I could be wrong, but if BBD has all these things at his disposal then he very well can answer that question very, very accurately.
                  This is also true.

                  But Shock, there are some things you can piece together if you know the basics of the scheme being run. Rivers is running the Norv Turner offense, its schematics are pretty well documented. I don't know specifics of it, but I know a little bit on it.

                  So I guess you can say that Im making assumptions as I see him making his progressions on tape, so its not entirely accurate. But you can get an idea of who makes progressions and who doesn't by watching the games.

                  Thats the difficult part of studying offenses. You don't know the playbook. You kind of have to wing it as an observer, and even then we probably only know half of what really is going down.

                  I prefer defense. :) So much easier. :)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by D-Unit View Post
                    Question: Does Cutler get over $100M?
                    I say Cutler gets 50% ownership of the Chicago Bears franchise.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                      Before I post my evaluation, I don't want people to assume that Im making a comparison of him vs Eli, bc the post will come off that way. Im just stating certain things to provide a background on how its difficult to compare the 2 in an absolute sense.
                      And that's why I really brought up Eli in the first place because you have more firsthand knowledge of him as a QB, and that's probably the best thing to use as a comparison for Phil.

                      Having that said, I think he does a great job. Its hard to compare honestly, bc their responsibilities are different.

                      Eli makes a lot of presnap reads, adjusts the pass protection, and comes to the line with 2 plays, so he is running a pseudo no huddle in a sense. A lot of his game comes from presnap reads, then going through his progressions.

                      Phillip doesn't do the presnap adjustments Eli does. Its not that he can't, I just think they don't ask him to do it. I think he's very capable of doing so if asked to do it. The offense is also different, its more based on timing and precision of simple routes, whereas the Giants offense is more option route oriented, where the route changes upon the defense presented, and the qb and WR must read it the same way.

                      Interestingly enough, there was an interview with Dan Patrick going over something similar to what you've just said.

                      http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/dan...681/index.html


                      So having that said, all we can really do is evaluate his ability once the ball is snapped, bc thats whats asked of him. I think he does a tremendous job. He looks off the safety, makes his progressions, almost always hits the right man, is great at putting just the right amount of touch on the ball, he's clutch, he's an excellent quarterback. I think the world of him.

                      If I have to critique him, my only knocks on him are

                      1. Pocket presence: he can do a better job moving around in the pocket. His pocket presence isn't bad by any stretch, but it can be better.
                      Funny you should mention this. His pocket presence last season was actually very good IMO. Which tells you just how horrible it has been the previous two seasons (particularly in 2007). He did a much better job of moving up in the pocket and making plays on the run. I believe some pundit mentioned he was the most accurate QB after being touched last season (or the most improved).

                      2. Arm strength: he's got zip on the ball, but he'd have a hard time with consistency in windy conditions like Jersey or Chicago, maybe even Boston for that matter.

                      He can zip it for the deep ball, but those intermediate slants, and out patterns, he can't zip it as well as you want him to. He gets around this with incredible anticipation skills, so his floaters don't hurt him as much as you'd think it could. But in windy conditions, those patterns won't be executed with as much success bc of how he throws it.


                      Thats about it though. He's solid. He'll get you guys a SB by the end of his career.

                      I hope that answered your question.
                      As for the last comment, he was able to finally strengthen his arm a bit more in 2008. The ACL injury actually helped him out because he had to strengthen those important core muscles. I'm hoping that a year after the injury, he's able to get even stronger in the throwing area.

                      His release might be another reason he might not get as much as zip as other QBs. It's a tradeoff unfortunately. It gives him one of the quickest releases in the NFL, but I think it causes certain longer throws to float more.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                        This is also true.

                        But Shock, there are some things you can piece together if you know the basics of the scheme being run. Rivers is running the Norv Turner offense, its schematics are pretty well documented. I don't know specifics of it, but I know a little bit on it.

                        So I guess you can say that Im making assumptions as I see him making his progressions on tape, so its not entirely accurate. But you can get an idea of who makes progressions and who doesn't by watching the games.

                        Thats the difficult part of studying offenses. You don't know the playbook. You kind of have to wing it as an observer, and even then we probably only know half of what really is going down.

                        I prefer defense. :) So much easier. :)
                        Yeah the scheme is the Air Croyell scheme which was ran with Aikeman, and Martz. I know the scheme, very good passing offensive scheme. I actually prefer that to the non sexy offense we run. But what can you do? It is what it is.

                        I have the Air C. playbook by the way. I have the Mike Martz system of version of it. It's a great system, and I love the terminology of tagging routes. Dallas uses that in their system, which I like a lot. Every route is tagged and so it makes it easier for all the players and Romo to get the play in and out quickly.

                        I hate defense, I never took interest in it other than front and coverage. Those are the only two elements I care about.

                        But in general, a question like that, for someone not on the staff is impossible to answer.


                        Actually, I'm glad you showed up because you're another person I wanted to ask. It's not that you need the SD playbook, but how he does against the overall defense ie. is he quick to recognize and exploit a particular defense? I mean see BBD talk about Ben's inability to read defenses very well last season so I'm curious about his take on Rivers.
                        Yeah, but you have to know what the front is, and coverage being played.. With the tv angle view a lot of that is hard to get unless you know what to look for and piece it together. Even then, next step, you need to know what concept is being run in the Air. C. scheme. Turner's version of it is tailored differently than Martz's version. So you need to be able to see the whole play, which you need the wide shot. Then from there you can get the routes, and concept, and then perhaps can guess the reads. It's a pain of a process if people don't know what to look for.

                        But answering a question like that accurately is damn near impossible without the right aides to help.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          That was interesting what Rivers said to sports illustrated. He makes great points.

                          Yeah, Rivers pocket presence has greatly improved. I just want to see him more fluid in there. He still looks a little stiff doing it. He's lucky to have a checkdown like LT, it definitely helps when youre in trouble as a qb to have a guy like that to throw it down to and watch the YAC.

                          I also have noticed his arm strength has improved. He looks like he's getting more power from his feet on those long throws these days. Those out patterns though, it could be an issue in windy conditions. But he plays in SD, theres no worries there unless he gets a tough break on the road.

                          All in all, I think he's a stud qb. I think all 3 qbs from that class are great.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                            That was interesting what Rivers said to sports illustrated. He makes great points.

                            Yeah, Rivers pocket presence has greatly improved. I just want to see him more fluid in there. He still looks a little stiff doing it. He's lucky to have a checkdown like LT, it definitely helps when youre in trouble as a qb to have a guy like that to throw it down to and watch the YAC.

                            I also have noticed his arm strength has improved. He looks like he's getting more power from his feet on those long throws these days. Those out patterns though, it could be an issue in windy conditions. But he plays in SD, theres no worries there unless he gets a tough break on the road.

                            All in all, I think he's a stud qb. I think all 3 qbs from that class are great.



                            Rivers will always have things going for in that he had Cam Cameron early on develop him, and Brees and now Flacco, and he is in a good Air C. system which is not a big risk taking system by nature. It's the same system they used in Dallas when they won superbowls, and it made Aikman, Smith, Irving, Jay N. and so on. As long as that system and Turner is there, Rivers will be golden. He is a good QB, and you add a QB friendly system like that and he will continue to be very productive.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Shockey+Manning=Shocking View Post
                              Rivers will always have things going for in that he had Cam Cameron early on develop him, and Brees and now Flacco, and he is in a good Air C. system which is not a big risk taking system by nature. It's the same system they used in Dallas when they won superbowls, and it made Aikman, Smith, Irving, Jay N. and so on. As long as that system and Turner is there, Rivers will be golden. He is a good QB, and you add a QB friendly system like that and he will continue to be very productive.
                              *sigh*

                              if only we had a system like that....

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                                *sigh*

                                if only we had a system like that....
                                Yup.. Pretty much. We screwed the pooch from day 1.

                                Rivers ----> Air C. with Cam Cameron. Now with Turner

                                Big Ben ------ > Ken W. developing him

                                Eli ------> John Hufangel! So good.. he got fired before the season ended, and booted out of the NFL into the Canadian league! Yippeeee!


                                I am still very bitter over that hiring! Let's throw the ball 557 times instead giving it to Tiki Barber! Best way to help a young QB, in his first full season, throw A LOT of passing attempts to rank you # 3 in the NFL, and not use your pro bowl RB. But then again, offensive guru's like Huffy, tend to not stick in the NFL after following inept philosophies like that.

                                I hated him more than MR. zone Defense himself, Tim Lewis!

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