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  • #16
    Originally posted by Vox Populi View Post
    I think you'll find that most of the good receiving tight ends are low on the list like Winslow and Gonzalez since they are usually one of the top two reads on any given passing play for their team and those two specifically were probably the most reliable targets on their teams last year and they both line up in the slot quite a bit as well (especially Gonzalez). Most of the passing plays that top tier receiving tight ends block in are probably play action passes or situational passing plays like inside your own 5 or 3 yard line where a sack will probably mean a change of possession and 2 points going to the other team. Kind of a weird stat.
    I think more than anything it's a testament t the changing of teams' aims at the tight end position.

    Time was the Tight End was an extra lineman who occasionally trundled a couple of yards into a zone hole and caught a few yard check down on 2nd and short or first and ten.

    Nowadays tight end stables usually consist of a good blocker a good receiver and a veteran or developmental prospect the team is trying to improve to replace whomever is older or declining of the other two. With every team bar a few searching for that special guy like Jason Witten (personally I think he's the best in the NFL) who can do both very well.

    The stat is either good or bad depending on how you want to look at it. Either you like having an all round tight end, or you're happy to have an extra receiver. Either way it just shows the propensity some coaches have to use players of a certain type in certain situations.

    Originally posted by eaglesalltheway View Post
    From watching the saints he is pretty much nothing in run blcoking, so I understand wanting to replace him for sure. But I don't care who you are, 0 sacks over a season (didn't he miss a game or two, not sure) even if it is 14 games is impressive, and very few linemen give up 0 sacks over a period of time that long.
    From the same article, it points out he tends to get overwhelmed by bigger DT's it pointed out Williams from Minnesota and Kemoeatu from carolina in the run game. Against smaller quicker DT's he had no issues in either facet of the game.

    I just found it to be an interesting stat considering his statistical performance was actually comparable to Nick Mangold's last year.
    Last edited by BlindSite; 09-07-2009, 11:13 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
      Pierre Thomas (NO) was stuffed at the line the least of any running back in the NFL
      he's my fantasy team's hidden gem for a reason

      Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Brent View Post
        he's my fantasy team's hidden gem for a reason
        It's no wonder how good NYG running game was last year, if memory serves, both their top rushers where above 50% for being stuffed behind the line and within the top 5.

        Thomas Jones was also surprisingly good, outside of normal stats, for DVOA and DYAR he was in the top 10.

        Portis was like the 2nd best rusher for "effective yards" behind DeAngelo Williams, who had a ridiculously good season in almost every possible category.

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        • #19
          When adjusted for Defensive opponent and situation by football outsiders Adrian Peterson ranks as the NFL's 17th best RB last year.
          Due to my respect for Football Outsider, this one is very significant in my eyes. How do they calculate that? Everything I know suggests Adrian is a great player - what would make him just a good player like FO suggests? I might research their rationale for that. Fumbles? Good O-line? Although opponent and situation doesn't really imply that they are crediting the O-line.

          by BoneKrusher
          <DG> how metal unseen
          <TheUnseen> Drunken Canadian Bastard: There's an APS for that

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          • #20
            Over the last two seasons, Rian Lindell has not missed a field goal on the road. 31/31, or 32/32 counting the game in Toronto.

            At home, he has missed 11 over this same period of time. 22/33 at the Ralph.

            Expand it over three years, and there's only one miss on the road with the numbers turning to 42/43.

            He has also never missed a PAT on 282 attempts. Pretty sure that makes him the best, though he doesn't have the volume of someone like Elam. Kind of sad when you compare his PAT attempts to someone who has been in the league half as long as he has (Kaeding) or even a third as long (Gostkowski).

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            • #21
              Cool thread, got any more? :)


              Props to BK on the sig!

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              • #22
                Due to my respect for Football Outsider, this one is very significant in my eyes. How do they calculate that? Everything I know suggests Adrian is a great player - what would make him just a good player like FO suggests? I might research their rationale for that. Fumbles? Good O-line? Although opponent and situation doesn't really imply that they are crediting the O-line.
                I dare say a large part of it is the teams we played last year. Colts, Atlanta, New Orleans, Chicago(x2), Detroit(x2), Green Bay(x2) and a couple of others, I'd be surprised if any of them were in the top half of teams against the run which would seriously deflate AD's credit for what he did. We basically played the who's who of bad defensive teams or bad against the run teams.

                Which makes how bad our offense actually was all the more scary. On a positive, we also kind of played the who's who of offensive teams and still had a crushing defense, without our star MLB to boot. That's a positive. It also probably goes a long way to explaining the myth that we have/had a great offensive line when we clearly haven't for those watching at home.


                Props to BK on the sig!

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                • #23
                  I have to say that I love the Saints stats.

                  Beastly sig by BoneKrusher

                  Super Bowl XLIV Champions
                  WHO DAT!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by The Unseen View Post
                    Due to my respect for Football Outsider, this one is very significant in my eyes. How do they calculate that? Everything I know suggests Adrian is a great player - what would make him just a good player like FO suggests? I might research their rationale for that. Fumbles? Good O-line? Although opponent and situation doesn't really imply that they are crediting the O-line.
                    As I understand it it's paired in a big way with the performance of the offensive line.

                    The adjustments fall into how well he did against certain opponents, in certain situations and how successful he was how often. I think a lot of it has to do with how often he ran for a first down, touchdowns vs turnovers, receiving and things like how good the defenses he faced were and how well he performed therein.

                    Originally posted by outsiders
                    Running backs are ranked according to DYAR, or Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement. This gives the value of the performance on plays where this RB carried/caught the ball compared to replacement level, adjusted for situation and opponent and then translated into yardage. DYAR (and its cousin, YAR, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.
                    The next statistic given is DVOA, or Defense-adjusted Value Over Average. This number represents value, per play, over an average quarterback in the same game situations. The more positive the DVOA rating, the better the player's performance. Negative DVOA represents below-average offense. DVOA (and its cousin, VOA, which isn't adjusted based on opponent) is further explained here.
                    Effective Yards, listed in red, translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate. Effective Yards are not the best way to measure total value because they are more dependent on usage than DYAR.
                    The final statistic is Success Rate. This number represents the player's consistency, measured by successful running plays (the definition of success being different based on down and distance) divided by total running plays. A player with higher DVOA and a low success rate mixes long runs with downs getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage. A player with lower DVOA and a high success rate generally gets the yards needed, but doesn't often get more. Success Rate is further explained here. It is not adjusted for opponent.
                    The simple version: DYAR means a running back with more total value. DVOA means a running back with more value per play.
                    • These numbers do not separate the performance of a running back from the performance of his offensive line. (You'll find numbers that try to do that on this page.) Be aware that one will affect the other.
                    • All fumbles are considered equal, whether recovered by the offense or defense.
                    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

                    D Williams is number in almost every category except total yards and success rating.

                    Originally posted by wogitalia View Post
                    I dare say a large part of it is the teams we played last year. Colts, Atlanta, New Orleans, Chicago(x2), Detroit(x2), Green Bay(x2) and a couple of others, I'd be surprised if any of them were in the top half of teams against the run which would seriously deflate AD's credit for what he did. We basically played the who's who of bad defensive teams or bad against the run teams.
                    I think a lot of it is that, but Carolina played similar teams, Atlanta, new Orleans and Tampa x2, and GB, Detroit and Chicago x1.

                    I think the opponents compared head to head is a bit of a wash, moreover. the idea behind the DVOA and DYAR rankings is to remove the bias that the opponent can provide.

                    It's designed to show whether or not one RB is better than another even if RB1 has 500 yards but faced the top 13 rushing defenses and RB2 has 1500 yards but faced the bottom 13.

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                    • #25
                      This is an awesome thread, I sadly don't have anything to contribute. I would have said that Marshall was targeted more times than any receiver last year if that wasn't in the first one.

                      Sig by the sigmaster BoneKrusher. Each one is a masterpiece
                      Originally posted by BaLLiN72
                      i wish NFLDC had something like "wall to wall" where we could see Brodeur and Job's conversations.
                      Originally posted by Job
                      NFLDC would be jizzing itself non-stop.

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                      • #26
                        i for one can attest that Goodwin is average at best. if we could replace him we would.

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                        • #27
                          I hate football outsiders and Mr. KC Joyner.

                          Thanks BoneKrusher^

                          http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
                          http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
                          KO KNOWS

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Saints 4 Lyfe View Post
                            i for one can attest that Goodwin is average at best. if we could replace him we would.
                            Bingo, bingo.

                            he's my fantasy team's hidden gem for a reason
                            Too bad he like Reggie Bush can hardly seem to stay healthy.
                            The whole world loves neophyte athletic tight end Jimmy Graham from Miami with the 95th pick. "Best pick in the draft,'' one AFC coach told me. "Give him time, and in that offense, he'll be better than [Jeremy] Shockey by the start of next year.''

                            “We know that no matter the adversity, be it the lockout, be it the suspension or be it a hurricane, our men will pull together and defend the honor of this city. We’ve shown we’ve been able to do that.” - Jabari Greer

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                              I hate football outsiders and Mr. KC Joyner.
                              Any particular reasoning?

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                              • #30
                                * These numbers do not separate the performance of a running back from the performance of his offensive line. (You'll find numbers that try to do that on this page.) Be aware that one will affect the other.
                                I think a lot of it is that, but Carolina played similar teams, Atlanta, new Orleans and Tampa x2, and GB, Detroit and Chicago x1.

                                I think the opponents compared head to head is a bit of a wash, moreover. the idea behind the DVOA and DYAR rankings is to remove the bias that the opponent can provide.
                                I dare say the first comment goes a certain ways to explaining the second. They did play similar teams, but any unbiased fan would have to look at Carolina's OL and say it is far better than Minnesota's, which would probably explain why playing similar teams Williams is better.


                                Props to BK on the sig!

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