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  • #31
    Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
    Any particular reasoning?
    Meh, it's all subjective. They're trying to have their own version of sabermetrics in football. But football isnt baseball, it's a lot tougher to be accurate. Baseball has a lot more to do with the indivisual player. They're cute to look at every now and then and some are useful but, some people live by this stuff now and I dont see why. There is just too much going on, on the field to get really accurate conclusions.

    Some people love it, some dont. I'm not a big fan.
    Last edited by M.O.T.H.; 09-08-2009, 02:08 AM.

    Thanks BoneKrusher^

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
    KO KNOWS

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    • #32
      On TE's like Tony G and Kellen Winslow on passing downs blocking... you guys are saying it like it's a bad thing, I would never have those guys pass blocking... like ever, maybe a chip at most.
      Originally posted by SNIPER26
      fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.

      Comment


      • #33
        Chad Pennington (MIA) is the NFL's all time leader in completion percentage with 66%. For having a noodle arm his Passer rating over 20 yard completions is 91.6

        Of Fred Jackson's (BUF) 317 yards receiving in 2008 303 of them came after first contact.

        Juqua Parker (PHI) had more QB pressures than all but four other players in the NFL.

        Leroy Hill (SEA) missed half as many tackles as Julian Petersen (SEA) and one third as many as Lofa Tatupu (SEA)

        Chris Gamble (CAR) was targeted more than any other corner in the NFL (124 times) by allowed only 56.6% of completions (less than Darelle Revis (NYJ) who allowed 58.3%). The 70 completed were for an average of 11.5 yards and only 3.6 YAC. Meaning Gamble allowed just 6.5 yards per attempt. Putting him at 9th best for coverage in the NFL.

        Eric Wright (CLE) allowed the longest pass against him to go for 28 yards, better than anyone else in the NFL.

        Scrabble (OAK) was in coverage on 486 plays last year, he was thrown to 30 times, of those 30 he allowed just 53% completion.

        Last year David Garrard (JAC) suffered through 42 sacks and 47 dropped passes.

        Greg Jones (JAC) was one of the best pass protectors in the league last year giving up just 2 pressures in 42 plays.

        Derrick Mason (BAL) was one of the NFL's most dependable receivers with 68.4% of passes thrown his way hauled in.

        Chad Greenway (MIN) should never be in coverage 84% of passes were completed against him, instead he should be turned loose against the QBs of the world (7 sacks) in 08.

        Corey Webster (NYG) allowed just 40% of pass thrown his way to be completed, was thrown to the least in the NFL but still deflected more passes. He is the NFCs newest shutdown corner.

        Sheldon Brown (PHI)
        was thrown to less than Astante Samuel (PHI), allowed less TDs and gave up 12% less completions.

        Sack numbers only indicate when a QB is tackled with the ball for a loss behind the LOS, when pressured the ability of a QB falls 37 points (passer rating) effectively. When pressured, Peyton Manning becomes Brad Johnson.

        The three best teams last year at preventing pressures from turning to sacks i.e, QBs able to avoid pass rushers once they get off blocks were:
        Indianapolis
        New Orleans

        Denver


        Last edited by BlindSite; 09-08-2009, 03:50 AM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
          Meh, it's all subjective. They're trying to have their own version of sabermetrics in football. But football isnt baseball, it's a lot tougher to be accurate. Baseball has a lot more to do with the indivisual player. They're cute to look at every now and then and some are useful but, some people live by this stuff now and I dont see why. There is just too much going on, on the field to get really accurate conclusions.

          Some people love it, some dont. I'm not a big fan.
          I always try to use all three facets of a analysis when picking players or teams to focus on, what I see on game day, their basic stats (NFL.com) and the hidden stuff (parts of Outsiders). I don't think outsiders should be a bible, but I think it's a more accurate representation of passers and running backs than raw yardage.

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          • #35
            The Gamble one is interesting....it doesnt make a whole lot of sense why he was targeted so much, though. Ken Lucas was right over there.

            Thanks BoneKrusher^

            http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
            http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
            KO KNOWS

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
              I always try to use all three facets of a analysis when picking players or teams to focus on, what I see on game day, their basic stats (NFL.com) and the hidden stuff (parts of Outsiders). I don't think outsiders should be a bible, but I think it's a more accurate representation of passers and running backs than raw yardage.
              Yeah I can see that. I just get annoyed when people do use it like you said, a bible.

              Thanks BoneKrusher^

              http://youtube.com/watch?v=6_j52DziMy4 (the man)
              http://youtube.com/watch?v=2g6S3Anto7c
              KO KNOWS

              Comment


              • #37
                That Greenway one definitely confirms what my thoughts on him last year. He really struggled in coverage at times.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by M.O.T.H. View Post
                  The Gamble one is interesting....it doesnt make a whole lot of sense why he was targeted so much, though. Ken Lucas was right over there.
                  Part of me thinks it's because Gamble was moved around a little bit last year, and because having a good running game put a lot of pressure on oppositions to try and move the ball down field through the air.

                  The final stats don't show it but for a long time last year Carolina was in the top 5 for pass defense, the final weeks where the defense sunk really hurt the overall look of the team. Gamble got big bucks pretty early in the process last year.

                  Corey Webster really surprised me, I thought the Giants homers were just being homers, but he really was a good CB last year.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                    Part of me thinks it's because Gamble was moved around a little bit last year, and because having a good running game put a lot of pressure on oppositions to try and move the ball down field through the air.

                    The final stats don't show it but for a long time last year Carolina was in the top 5 for pass defense, the final weeks where the defense sunk really hurt the overall look of the team. Gamble got big bucks pretty early in the process last year.

                    Corey Webster really surprised me, I thought the Giants homers were just being homers, but he really was a good CB last year.
                    We may be homers but we all hated corey webster until he decided to become a great corner, so we were bitter skeptics. But the dude's a stud, he's also a very good player against the run.

                    BK

                    Originally posted by AcheTen
                    JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
                    Originally posted by abaddon41_80
                    Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
                    Originally posted by JBCX
                    Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                      Chad Pennington (MIA) is the NFL's all time leader in passer rating.
                      Good stuff but i thought that stuck out, Brady and Manning both have higher

                      Manning - 94.7
                      Brady - 92.9
                      Pennington - 90.6

                      Daunte Culpepper was right up there too till his knee died and Randy didn't love him anymore.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by 7-11 View Post
                        Good stuff but i thought that stuck out, Brady and Manning both have higher

                        Manning - 94.7
                        Brady - 92.9
                        Pennington - 90.6

                        Daunte Culpepper was right up there too till his knee died and Randy didn't love him anymore.
                        I think it's a typo from the source, I think Pennington is actually the all time leader for completion % with 66/

                        Yeah, typo in the source, fixed for accuracy

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                          I think it's a typo from the source, I think Pennington is actually the all time leader for completion % with 66/

                          Yeah, typo in the source, fixed for accuracy
                          Ahh righto, he certainly is, followed by Kurt Warner i'm led to believe whom, barring injury, on November 15 against the Seahawks will have started more games for the Cardinals than the Rams.

                          Who would've thought!?

                          Had to add a random fact atleast in one of my posts.
                          Last edited by 7-11; 09-08-2009, 04:02 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            The three best teams last year at preventing pressures from turning to sacks i.e, QBs able to avoid pass rushers once they get off blocks were:
                            Indianapolis
                            New Orleans
                            Denver
                            i think this is very interesting for all the fans that said that Cutler mostly had a clean pocket and didnt have to move around a lot/or face a lot of pressure

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Chad Greenway (MIN) should never be in coverage 84% of passes were completed against him, instead he should be turned loose against the QBs of the world (7 sacks) in 08.
                              Something I have noticed is how little the Vikes blitz and how incredibly effective we have been when doing it. Just another element of out ultra conservative approach I guess...

                              As for Greenway, would be interested to see the general average for Tampa 2 LBs as their job in coverage is to protect the underneath and make the tackle before the first down. I would be interested to see some other LBs numbers on that stat and also what the average YAC and yardage in general is for Greenway as I personally noticed he gives up a lot of catches but very little yardage.

                              The three best teams last year at preventing pressures from turning to sacks i.e, QBs able to avoid pass rushers once they get off blocks were:
                              Indianapolis
                              New Orleans
                              Denver
                              First two are obvious, Manning and Brees are notorious for getting it out quick and their ability to avoid the rush, also gives them more credit as both complete a very high % of their passes, which means they are almost certainly completing more passes under pressure than other QBs.

                              As for Cutler, this would go a long way to explaining why he throws so many picks, perhaps pushing throws out a bit early to avoid sacks, also a credit to him that he gets it out quickly and obviously does a good job avoiding rushers, though I think a large part of this would be having a consistent line in front so that you aren't having to avoid multiple rushers and all 3 of those teams have above average lines.

                              I also imagine the Vikes were pretty poor on this front, in a large part because you could almost guarantee that someone would be coming in untouched off an edge on every pass play and often their were two guys...

                              Leroy Hill (SEA) missed half as many tackles as Julian Petersen (SEA) and one third as many as Lofa Tatupu (SEA)
                              Thats an interesting one. You could throw up that he wasn't in a position to make as many tackles as the other two also, so can really swing that either way, and even a missed tackle will influence a game, whether it be completely blowing it or forcing a player in a different direction/slowing them down.


                              Props to BK on the sig!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by *** Ork Wang View Post
                                i think this is very interesting for all the fans that said that Cutler mostly had a clean pocket and didnt have to move around a lot/or face a lot of pressure
                                I think I remember hearing that though Denver gave up the fewest sacks last year, they also had the most QB pressures or something like that. Another thing Cutler didn't get credit for in Denver... elusiveness. He also is able to get the ball out and make a sack into an incompletion, or a completion isn some cases.
                                Nanna Bryndís Hilmarsdóttir is a goddess

                                Rest in Peace, themaninblack

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