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Ben Roethlisberger and the Steelers' pass catchers are for real, yo.

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Shiver View Post
    Ben's last three seasons:

    17 touchdowns/15 Interceptions
    32 touchdowns/11 Interceptions
    18 touchdowns/23 interceptions

    It is maddening for a QB to be as inconsistent as this. I expect year to year efficiency from a "top-5" QB.
    That's what I'm saying, stats don't matter in what I'm talking about. I say wins, and he wins.

    And the lists above are fine, only one I find laughable is Flacco. At this point, I can't see one reason to take him over Ben.


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    • #62
      Originally posted by JBond93 View Post
      That's what I'm saying, stats don't matter in what I'm talking about. I say wins, and he wins.

      And the lists above are fine, only one I find laughable is Flacco. At this point, I can't see one reason to take him over Ben.
      he's got a unibrow.

      but this is how it is, guys who win and don't put up big stats will get hated on because they're not "the reason" their teams win. I think Big Ben is an idiot and not that good of a QB, but you gotta respect his "it" factor to come up huge when he needs to and not **** up in the huge games
      We ALL bleed scarlet
      New York Giants Super Bowl 46 Champs
      UNITED: I actually attend the college I root for
      Originally posted by PalmerToCJ
      BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.

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      • #63
        Well I am wacko for Flacco. lol But seriously if I was starting a team right now Flacco would be on my short list. He isn't good now, but the premise of the list promotes some projection/.

        Wins is the worst statistic to use when judging an individual player in a game where there are 22 starters + special teams. In basketball I could buy it, but not in the NFL, not even with the QB position.
        Last edited by Shiver; 09-12-2009, 10:11 PM.

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        • #64
          what upsets me is that someone like Vick comes in and has worse stats then Ben but because he ran around and made something happen and he helped his team win then he is put on a pedestal and everyone talks about how great of a QB he is and how he helped his team win but when someone like Ben does it then he gets criticized and no one wants to say he is a great QB and QB's like Vick does not put up great eye-popping numbers either....so why can Ben not get his cred

          Matthew 19:26
          Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but With God ALL things are possible

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          • #65
            Vick was never as good as Roethlisberger is now. You cannot find anyone who would say otherwise. Your use of "weasel words" is quite impressive though.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Shiver View Post
              Well I am wacko for Flacco. lol

              Wins is the worst statistic to use when judging an individual player in a game where there are 22 starters + special teams. In basketball I could buy it, but not in the NFL, not even with the QB position.
              so are you saying that nothing Ben has ever done has helped his team win a game?

              Matthew 19:26
              Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but With God ALL things are possible

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                Well I am wacko for Flacco. lol But seriously if I was starting a team right now Flacco would be on my short list. He isn't good now, but the premise of the list promotes some projection/.

                Wins is the worst statistic to use when judging an individual player in a game where there are 22 starters + special teams. In basketball I could buy it, but not in the NFL, not even with the QB position.
                Perhaps, but 20 game winning drives in 6 seasons (most in that time, 3 more than Peyton Manning,) is on the QB.


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                • #68
                  Absolutely not. He is a very, very good QB. He has made big time plays to win games. But using the "he wins" argument is a little weak when that is your trump card. "All other arguments are invalidated because 'he wins.'"

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by JBond93 View Post
                    Perhaps, but 20 game winning drives in 6 seasons (most in that time, 3 more than Peyton Manning,) is on the QB.
                    Still not feeling that type of stat, didn't like it for John Elway, and I didn't like it for one of my own guys (Aaron Brooks).

                    Peyton Manning probably buried a few teams that Roethlisberger would let hang around and need to lead a game winning drive against...

                    Not saying he isn't absolutely one of the best at leading a late drive, but I think the true greats rarely let the team get into that situation.
                    Originally posted by SNIPER26
                    fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.

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                    • #70
                      I never said all other arguments are invalidated. I never said this was my trump card. I'm merely stating my opinion.


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                      • #71
                        Alright, cool. I guess I am venting vs the whole argument, not just in this instance but when it is used by everyone whose QB isn't Brady, Manning and Brees. Nothing personal against you JBond.
                        Last edited by Shiver; 09-12-2009, 11:22 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
                          Peyton Manning probably buried a few teams that Roethlisberger would let hang around and need to lead a game winning drive against...
                          This. I respect 4th quarter comebacks just as much as the next guy, but it's not like he's never lost a game either. Like Saints-Tigers said, and not just Peyton Manning, but a lot of the "elite" QB's buried teams before there was ever a chance for a 4th quarter comeback.

                          It's a good stat (I'm not a stat hater), and should definitely be in the conversation when ranking Ben against other QB's. But it's not the most important stat, and I don't think it detracts from other QB's when they lack 4th quarter come backs.

                          I'll say again, even though it's not that interesting the read the comments of someone who holds a moderate position on the subject, but Ben is a unique QB. What he does is certainly not "by the book", but it does work (otherwise he wouldn't have a job :P) and no one can argue that the Steelers will be looking to replace him anytime soon.

                          The team doesn't win despite him, they win because of him. But they also win because of the other 52 guys on the team :P. I would even go as far as to say that he has the most individual value on the team, I just don't think it's by that much.

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                          • #73
                            I still hate Ben, but at the same time, he is a great QB that can manage a game. He is going to be so good this year. The last three seasons he hasn't had much to throw to...Now he has a star in Holmes. I love Big Ben's attitude towards the game. This guy is going to play til he is 40.

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                            Originally posted by ImBrotherCain
                            You are just a terrible person.
                            Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                            I have an iPhone.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by vikes_29 View Post
                              I still hate Ben, but at the same time, he is a great QB that can manage a game. He is going to be so good this year. The last three seasons he hasn't had much to throw to...Now he has a star in Holmes. I love Big Ben's attitude towards the game. This guy is going to play til he is 40.
                              With his playing style, he will get hit way to much for that to happen.


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