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What is the legacy of Randy Moss?

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  • #76
    I look at Randy Moss like I look at Barry Sanders: a dominant yet inconsistent walking highlight real. Sanders would be the best of all time if he was always on, but he wasn't. The reason Walter Payton is the best of all time, is that he was the best on a consistent basis. Same thing with Moss. Moss is incredible when he's on the top of his game, but he can't be consistent, and he's not always a team player, two things that Jerry Rice did along with being utterly dominant.
    Last edited by Staubach12; 10-01-2009, 12:04 PM.

    BoneKrusher

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    • #77
      Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
      Moss can go up the middle and run short routes. He did it plenty against the Bills.

      When asked to do it, he does it and does it well.

      But theres really no point of him doing that. His job is to stretch the field. His deep routes are the reason why Wes Welker is so effective underneath. He stretches and opens up the field for the rest of his team to catch underneath routes.

      He's at his best when he's stretching the field and taking both safeties along with him for the ride.

      Asking him to run up the middle underneath is like having a Ferrari and taking it grocery shopping.

      You have the beater car for that.
      never said he couldnt or that he wasnt great at it...rice is simply better in this role...just like rice can stretch the field but not as good as moss....besides that i completely agree with your post.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by roscoesdad27 View Post
        never said he couldnt or that he wasnt great at it...rice is simply better in this role...just like rice can stretch the field but not as good as moss....besides that i completely agree with your post.
        oh absolutely, i agree with you.


        I can only imagine how dominant Moss couldve been if he had the qb support that Rice had throughout his career. Thats taking nothing away from Rice, Rice is easily the greatest WR ever, but Moss is a badass in his own right.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
          Moss can go up the middle and run short routes. He did it plenty against the Bills.

          When asked to do it, he does it and does it well.

          But theres really no point of him doing that. His job is to stretch the field. His deep routes are the reason why Wes Welker is so effective underneath. He stretches and opens up the field for the rest of his team to catch underneath routes.

          He's at his best when he's stretching the field and taking both safeties along with him for the ride.

          Asking him to run up the middle underneath is like having a Ferrari and taking it grocery shopping.

          You have the beater car for that.
          This is the correct way of thinking, I agree that most of the 'weaknesses' people point out in Randy's game are more attributable to coaching. When you have the scariest deep threat around, you're going to stretch the field. Although I have seen some pretty effective Randy screens, those are fun.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by njx9
            well, and the fact that he regularly falls down to avoid contact of any kind. i can't imagine that lends itself to people thinking of him as an over-the-middle target.
            this is true, but Owens does the same. and he's been known as a guy who works the quick slant as good as anyone.

            you don't have to be a YAC machine to be effective up the middle of the field.

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            • #81
              I'd put him at #3...He is undeniably the most talented WR of his time but I think CJ is ready to step into those shoes and may even be more talented than Moss.

              "Dying ain't much of a living, boy" -Josey Wales
              Originally posted by TitanHope
              R4L does security, and strips on the weekend.
              He told me the best part is being able to wear the same uniform to both jobs.

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              • #82
                Definitely top 3 receivers of all time, I'd probably have him at 2 just because I've always been a big fan of his. Maybe the most dominant ever, but it's not even disputable that Rice is the greatest. If all positions are equal, Rice is by far the greatest football player ever. Don't think that Rice was just great over a long period of time, he has the greatest yardage season ever, and the greatest TD season ever when he had 22 in only 12 games.

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                • #83
                  I going to play devil's advocate and say that Randy Moss is the greatest WR of all time:

                  1. No one has the physical ability he has; when he came into the league no one knew how to defend him and they still don't well into his career. He redefined what the WR position was about.

                  2. Unlike Jerry Rice he didn't have a Hall of Fame QB passing to him until 2007, and Rice had two of those Quarterbacks. Randy Moss made the likes of Matt Cassel, Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins have productive seasons, something that they did not do without him. Even Tom Brady did not have prolific statistics, until he got Moss that is.

                  3. He may not have Rice's longevity, but in terms of dominance Moss has had more great seasons. He is the only WR in history to have three seasons of 17 or more touchdowns, that is out of this world. He averaged 12 per year for his first eight seasons. Rice's 87 season was better than Moss' 07 year, but overall I would take Randy Moss' career prime over Jerry Rice.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                    I going to play devil's advocate and say that Randy Moss is the greatest WR of all time:

                    1. No one has the physical ability he has; when he came into the league no one knew how to defend him and they still don't well into his career. He redefined what the WR position was about.

                    2. Unlike Jerry Rice he didn't have a Hall of Fame QB passing to him until 2007, and Rice had two of those Quarterbacks. Randy Moss made the likes of Matt Cassel, Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins have productive seasons, something that they did not do without him. Even Tom Brady did not have prolific statistics, until he got Moss that is.

                    3. He may not have Rice's longevity, but in terms of dominance Moss has had more great seasons. He is the only WR in history to have three seasons of 17 or more touchdowns, that is out of this world. He averaged 12 per year for his first eight seasons. Rice's 87 season was better than Moss' 07 year, but overall I would take Randy Moss' career prime over Jerry Rice.
                    *bites fist*

                    I can't say it. I just can't say it. Rice personifies the WR position. Its like saying Kevin Greene is better than LT bc he has more sacks. The stats may sound convincing when you sit back and look at it, but you just know its not true.

                    Originally posted by njx9
                    definitely, and i'm not claiming this makes him a worse receiver. but it certainly impacts perception of his ability to do anything other than go deep.

                    i always wonder what moss would've been if you'd put rice's brain into his body.
                    Yeah, i definitely agree with that.

                    Or Rice's heart, or work ethic. Although Moss gets unfairly criticized for his work ethic. He has a great work ethic but Rice's was out of this world.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Staubach12 View Post
                      I look at Randy Moss like I look at Barry Sanders: a dominant yet inconsistent walking highlight real. Sanders would be the best of all time if he was always on, but he wasn't. The reason Walter Payton is the best of all time, is that he was the best on a consistent basis. Same thing with Moss. Moss is incredible when he's on the top of his game, but he can't be consistent, and he's not always a team player, two things that Jerry Rice did along with being utterly dominant.
                      Inconsistent as in '2 yards, 2 yards, 60 yards??' or 'averaging a little over 1500 yards a year over 10 years with the line that he had??'

                      I know this is a thread about Moss but I have to stick up for Barry. Whichever inconsistent you mean, I respectfully disagree. (I know the 'if' game) If Barry had Emmits line, it would have been 60 yards, 60 yards, 59 yards and probably close to 1800 yards a year over 10 years.


                      Silverback....still the best.

                      +rep to Jakey for the sig

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                      • #86
                        When comparing Rice to Moss, let's also remember the rule changes.

                        The rule change of not allowing CBs to rough up WRs beyond 5 yards has led to an exponential growth of #1 WRs.

                        Moss was dominant before the rule change, but you still have to factor in that half his career was played with CBs trying to outrun him after 5 yards.

                        Which obviously plays in Moss's favor.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by terribletowel39 View Post
                          Inconsistent as in '2 yards, 2 yards, 60 yards??' or 'averaging a little over 1500 yards a year over 10 years with the line that he had??'

                          I know this is a thread about Moss but I have to stick up for Barry. Whichever inconsistent you mean, I respectfully disagree. (I know the 'if' game) If Barry had Emmits line, it would have been 60 yards, 60 yards, 59 yards and probably close to 1800 yards a year over 10 years.
                          You're overestimating the Lions O-line here if you think Barry would have been limited to 1800 per year with that group of Cowboy blockers :D

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                          • #88
                            While the argument for Jerry has already been made, I'd like to add that Moss has a problem with the dropsies. As far as I know (and I'll admit, I wasn't around to watch back then) Jerry never had that problem, and was always incredibly consistent.


                            <@JBond> And Dg, you'd waste it on corndogs
                            <@JBond> So you get no 5 dollars
                            <+DG> how is buy one get one free wasting?
                            <+njx9> i'm pretty sure your people still eat boots in north korea, bantx. they don't know what vegetables are.

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                            • #89
                              Jerry Rice was almost run out of San Francisco because he had a terrible case of the dropsies early in his career, very early I should add.

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                              • #90
                                It should also be said that while no one ever questioned Rice's heart or work ethic, his attitude both towards coaches and teammates (not even to bring up opposing players) wasn't always smooth sailing. I know that's often glossed over now that he's out of the game (and I imagine a lot of Moss' problems will be mostly forgotten shortly after he retires), but there's plenty of times where Rice was a less than great teammate.

                                Even with all Moss has accomplished, he'll be a player that most people acknowledge had some unfulfilled potential. That alone probably keeps Rice as the majority choice for best receiver of all time, as there's few people who don't think he maximized his opportunities. That said, if I have choose between taking one for a year in their respective primes, there's no question that I'm picking Moss.

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