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4th and 2: Belichick's Call

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  • #46
    Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
    The problem with even doubling the length of the field is the Colts scored their TD without using a timeout, with a running play and by letting the clock run down. The two previous TD drives took approximately the same amount of time as there was left. Bottom line if Manning got the ball back last night he was going to score know matter where from.
    Peyton is the best but you can't say he's automatic in any situation...unless that situation is 28 yards out.

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    • #47
      It was only a bad call because it didn't work. If Faulk catches the ball cleanly, without the bobble New England wins the game and everyone is praising Belichick. Like someone pointed out, Tom Brady has converted 76% of his career 4th & 2 (or less). Does anyone think New England had a higher than 76% chance of stopping the Colts? Especially after giving up 108 yards on 10 plays over the previous two possessions in a combined 3:31.

      You play the odds and the odds said that gaining two yards was more likely than stopping an offense that had just walked all over your defense two possessions in a row.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by P-L View Post
        It was only a bad call because it didn't work. If Faulk catches the ball cleanly, without the bobble New England wins the game and everyone is praising Belichick. Like someone pointed out, Tom Brady has converted 76% of his career 4th & 2 (or less). Does anyone think New England had a higher than 76% chance of stopping the Colts? Especially after giving up 108 yards on 10 plays over the previous two possessions in a combined 3:31.

        You play the odds and the odds said that gaining two yards was more likely than stopping an offense that had just walked all over your defense two possessions in a row.

        I donno PL, if it had worked I still think it would have been a bad call, just one that they got away with.

        Honestly it's probably best for the Pats that this blew up in BB's face. If he really thinks he can get away with this kind of crap then he needed a big time ego check.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
          I donno PL, if it had worked I still think it would have been a bad call, just one that they got away with.
          Same here. Bad call either way. If they converted the 4th down I would still say it was dumb.

          Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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          • #50
            If they would have gotten the 1st down, there would be no discussion and Bill would be a genius. They didn't get it so now we are second guessing him.

            Personally, I would have punted and made Manning drive the length of the field and score a TD.

            Again, if Faulk doesn't bobble that pass, Bill is a genius.

            Sig by BoneKrusher

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            • #51
              I think it was a bad call only because of where they were on the field. Had they have been in Indy's territory, I would have loved it.
              The whole world loves neophyte athletic tight end Jimmy Graham from Miami with the 95th pick. "Best pick in the draft,'' one AFC coach told me. "Give him time, and in that offense, he'll be better than [Jeremy] Shockey by the start of next year.''

              “We know that no matter the adversity, be it the lockout, be it the suspension or be it a hurricane, our men will pull together and defend the honor of this city. We’ve shown we’ve been able to do that.” - Jabari Greer

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                You play to win the game; you do not play to not lose. I love the call.



                says,




                anyway, back on topic...
                I can understand why the Pats went for it. They were having a great game offensively and assumed that it would work out again. However, I don't think I would have taken that big of a risk, considering that if you don't convert, you're essentially giving away the game to Manning and co. IMO, he should have put his faith in his defense to not give up ~80 yards.
                Last edited by Bills2083; 11-16-2009, 07:56 PM.


                Originally Posted by scottyboy
                my lord...I cannot imagine such a world where I can mention Raymell Rice's thighs around a girl and not be the only one sexually aroused
                But for everyone reading this in Buffalo and Cleveland and everywhere else, take solace in the following: As crazy as it sounds, you're lucky. Your Mount Everest experience is still ahead of you. It's waiting, and it's glorious.- Bill Simmons

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                • #53
                  I love the call.

                  I hate the media reaction.

                  What Bill has done is not a diss on his defense. It is a compliment to both the offense and the defense.

                  He has told his offense that feels they are good enough to win the game right there and then. Put it away.

                  He has told the defense that he has perfect faith in them to stop the Colts from 30 yards. If I'm on that defense that is how I take it, you have people in the media talking about how it was a lack of faith, how is saying, I back you guys to stop Peyton Manning with 30 yards and 2 minutes an insult, that is the ultimate respect.

                  The fact that his defense failed to reward that faith is why he is being double guessed.

                  Anytime you go for it on 4th down you are saying that, you are telling the offense you believe in them, you tell the defense you don't think they need extra yardage to get the job done, you are telling the whole team you are going after the win, not playing not to lose.

                  Great call, sure it backfired and it's easy to critique it as a result, but it was a great call that showed complete faith in his team, really selling out in belief of the team. Sometimes things just aren't meant to be.

                  On a side note, poor timeout management to not be able to challenge was the "bad" coaching move that is being swept under by overreaction to the actual call. That is where Belichek should be copping any heat.


                  Props to BK on the sig!

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                  • #54
                    I go for it. I'd rather put the game in Tom BRady's hands with all of NE's weapons, than give the ball back to Peyton after he's marching around the field.
                    Originally posted by SNIPER26
                    fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by P-L View Post
                      It was only a bad call because it didn't work. If Faulk catches the ball cleanly, without the bobble New England wins the game and everyone is praising Belichick. Like someone pointed out, Tom Brady has converted 76% of his career 4th & 2 (or less). Does anyone think New England had a higher than 76% chance of stopping the Colts? Especially after giving up 108 yards on 10 plays over the previous two possessions in a combined 3:31.

                      You play the odds and the odds said that gaining two yards was more likely than stopping an offense that had just walked all over your defense two possessions in a row.
                      I disagreed with it before the snap. Field position was a key factor in this decision. If the ball was near midfield I think it would have been a better call.

                      I will say this though, the old adage is that you play for the win on the road.

                      I may have disagreed with the call but it wasn't as bad as some are making it out to be. I certainly think that a legit argument can be made that it was a good call because the Patriots didn't want to give the ball back to Peyton.

                      I was surprised Belichick didn't challenge the call until I realized that a challenge in that situation can only be made if it is ruled a first down, which is a **** rule IMO. If that was the case, the official should have ruled it a first and had the play reviewed. I still believe after watching the replays that Faulk may have gotten that first down after gaining possession of the pass.


                      Another sig courtesy of BoneKrusher

                      Originally posted by JBCX
                      Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

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                      • #56
                        I was surprised Belichick didn't challenge the call until I realized that a challenge in that situation can only be made if it is ruled a first down, which is a **** rule IMO. If that was the case, the official should have ruled it a first and had the play reviewed. I still believe after watching the replays that Faulk may have gotten that first down after gaining possession of the pass.
                        The problem isn't the rule, spot of the ball can be challenged. What happened is that as New England had no Timeouts left they could not instigate a challenge, had it been a first down, the clock would have run down to the 2 minute warning, which could have triggered an automatic review. Basically, bad timeout management by BB was the reason they didn't/couldn't challenge, that one is on Bill, not the refs and that was the part that "lost them the game", though the Eagles/Cowboys game shows that refs hate to correct a ball spot as it undermines their mates call so I doubt it really mattered.


                        Props to BK on the sig!

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                        • #57
                          Good call on that, forgot New England was out of timeouts. I thought I heard though that the spot of the ball can't be challenged unless it is ruled a first down.


                          Another sig courtesy of BoneKrusher

                          Originally posted by JBCX
                          Despite looking better against an underachieving Eagles team, I still think the Bears are one of the worst teams in the NFL. I smell a blowout victory by the Lions this week and a division sweep.

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                          • #58
                            Good call on that, forgot New England was out of timeouts. I thought I heard though that the spot of the ball can't be challenged unless it is ruled a first down.
                            Philly challenged it last week so Im pretty sure you can. Fumble recoveries are not challengable, I think that seems to be the most contentious issue that can't be challenged.


                            Props to BK on the sig!

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                            • #59
                              I liked the call. Just happened to have a little bad luck.

                              sig by fenikz
                              Originally posted by ImBrotherCain
                              You are just a terrible person.
                              Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                              I have an iPhone.

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                              • #60
                                I really don't understand why it's such a horrible call. It didn't work but if that's what makes it a bad decision then any coaching call should be based that way.

                                Good things about the call:

                                1. If you get the two yards the game is over without Manning touching the ball
                                2. The offense had it's way all day
                                3. The defense couldn't stop Manning in the 4th quarter
                                4. Potential of bad snap on punt, bad punt or a good return by the Colts
                                5. If it fails the Colts still have to score a TD
                                6. If Addai scores on his run the Pats have over a minute to score a
                                FG

                                Bad things about the call:

                                1. If failed Manning has 2 minutes to go 30 yards
                                2. It showed a lack of faith in the defense
                                3. Chris Hanson had been punting very well with little or no returns


                                Overall it was a gamble and it backfired but that doesn't mean it was wrong.


                                BoneKrusher killing it with the sig

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