Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by gpngc View Post
    Rich Gannon = very good QB statistically, 1 AFC championship.

    Kurt Warner = very good QB statistically, 3 NFC Championships, 1 Super Bowl Ring (His Charizard Pokemon card if you will).

    I'm comparing Gannon's resume to Warner's. Not Marino's to Dilfer's.

    In this comparison, the Super Bowl ring is a big difference. In the Marino-Dilfer comparison, the Super Bowl ring means nothing because Dilfer isn't on his level to begin with.

    That compute OK?
    The super bowl ring is not a personal stat.

    WINS ARE NOT A QB STAT.

    Crappy players can be on good teams and good players can be last place teams. Wins of any kind, playoff or otherwise, do not matter when doing an objective comparison of any two players.

    Therefore, wins should not enter into the HOF argument. It's that kind of idiocy that puts undeserving bad players like Joe Namath in the HOF.
    Last edited by Monomach; 01-11-2010, 02:17 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Four years ago, it didn't look like he would be. Now, I think he's a lock.

      BoneKrusher

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Monomach View Post
        The super bowl ring is not a personal stat.

        WINS ARE NOT A QB STAT.

        Crappy players can be on good teams and good players can be last place teams. Wins of any kind, playoff or otherwise, do not matter when doing an objective comparison of any two players.

        Therefore, wins should not enter into the HOF argument. It's that kind of idiocy that puts undeserving bad players like Joe Namath in the HOF.
        If that is how you choose to evaluate quarterbacks in this sport, then that is fine. I take winning into account because of the nature of the quarterback position and I'm sure the voters will as well.
        "I'm Ko Simpson!"

        - Ko Simpson

        Comment


        • #19
          He is a lock without question IMO.
          And proud of it!!!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by gpngc View Post
            If that is how you choose to evaluate quarterbacks in this sport, then that is fine. I take winning into account because of the nature of the quarterback position and I'm sure the voters will as well.
            Joe Namath.

            That should be enough to sway anyone of sound mind.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Monomach View Post
              Joe Namath.

              That should be enough to sway anyone of sound mind.
              You can keep arguing but postseason success always has been and always will be a huge part of how the NFL world views QBs. There are always going to be extreme examples on both ends like you say, as in Namath/Marino. But it works the other way too, is Aikman all that special without the rings? Montana is the GOAT in my book but he wouldn't be if he weren't invincible in the Super Bowl, etc. etc.

              Comment


              • #22
                Postseason and wins are overrated, but they should be a factor. Ultimately it's a spectator sport, and fame and "goodness" (an ultimately subjective value in sports) are based off of the intensity that their performances bring to the game for fans. Doing things when things matter, well, matters.

                by BoneKrusher
                <DG> how metal unseen
                <TheUnseen> Drunken Canadian Bastard: There's an APS for that

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by wogitalia View Post
                  Also... it is the Pro-Football HOF not the NFL HOF, therefore his achievements prior to entering and after college should receive some consideration and if he made it into the NFL based on them, I assume he must have done something in the other leagues.
                  Don't think the voters pay much or any attention to anything outside of a players nfl career. He got his break through the Arena Football league, played two seasons and his team went to the championship game in both.

                  Regardless he is a lock for the hall in my opinion. Based on when people are likely to retire his main competition at QB will be Farve then not much for a few year stretch.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
                    You can keep arguing but postseason success always has been and always will be a huge part of how the NFL world views QBs.
                    Baseball folks are finally starting to see that wins are not a legit pitcher stat. I expect that the NFL will stop being ******** and come to the light as well.

                    There are always going to be extreme examples on both ends like you say, as in Namath/Marino. But it works the other way too, is Aikman all that special without the rings?
                    That's not working the other way. That's working the same dumb way. Troy Aikman is another undeserving member of the hall. Glad you brought him up. He was an average QB who was lucky to be carried into the Hall by a great team. In reality, Aikman was about the equal of Brad Johnson. In fact, the stats will tell you that Johnson was a tiny bit better.

                    Montana is the GOAT in my book but he wouldn't be if he weren't invincible in the Super Bowl, etc. etc.
                    Montana was great and does belong in the hall, but Peyton Manning is already better and still building on that. In fact, Montana and Steve Young are pretty much next to eachother on the list if you're going to rate all-time QBs.


                    Playoffs are not indicative of individual skill. They are a small sample size in a football career, and should be treated as such.
                    Last edited by Monomach; 01-11-2010, 03:06 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I was mulling it over during last year's Super Bowl, but I think he is a lock now for sure.

                      "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                      -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                      Originally posted by Borat
                      Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Yeah. I don't even see how this is in question.

                        Hitman D

                        "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation." - Henry David Thoreau

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Monomach View Post

                          Montana was great and does belong in the hall, but Peyton Manning is already better and still building on that. In fact, Montana and Steve Young are pretty much next to eachother on the list if you're going to rate all-time QBs.


                          Playoffs are not indicative of individual skill. They are a small sample size in a football career, and should be treated as such.
                          Hmm we might have to respectfully agree to disagree, but another thought or two: playoffs are a small sample size in a football career, but that's because you have to earn your appearances in the postseason. You'll never find games as hard fought or intense as in the playoffs, especially in the NFL where it's single elimination.

                          Everything's just about ranking and basically conversation's sake, and you're right that chips are a team award, but of all the things to judge a QB by, what you want more than anything is the ability to be at his best, when it matters most. Playoffs are when it matters most, and so are Super Bowls. That's why you can factor in postseason wins, because largely they're an indicator of great play when the pressure is at it's highest. 'Factor in' because obviously it's not the complete picture or even close, but it is still important.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CC.SD View Post
                            playoffs are a small sample size in a football career, but that's because you have to earn your appearances in the postseason.
                            This is not really true. I really, really wish it were. Rex Grossman gets accused of "leading" the Bears to a super bowl all the time. Horrible players get dragged kicking and screaming into the postseason every year. That's why all postseason success should be regarded as only team stats.

                            but of all the things to judge a QB by, what you want more than anything is the ability to be at his best, when it matters most. Playoffs are when it matters most, and so are Super Bowls. That's why you can factor in postseason wins, because largely they're an indicator of great play when the pressure is at it's highest.
                            But the wins are not an indicator of the individual's performance at all. If it were, this whole thing would be a walk in the park and I would petition to get them added to stat pages. People are not using how the player actually played. They're using the wins themselves as stats, which gives undeserving players incredible credit toward that enshrinement.

                            Example: People are talking about Big Ben as a HOF hopeful already because he has two rings. It's incredibly over the top. The guy was outQBed in both of his super bowls. Doesn't matter to them because he got the wins. The fact that he wasn't great on the way to winning a postseason berth in those seasons? Ignored because he got the wins. I can't help but get all itchy over that, lol.
                            Last edited by Monomach; 01-11-2010, 03:55 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Honestly I believe that was the greatest game ever played by a quarterback. You throw for over 30times and you have more touchdowns then incompletes thats just crazy. 154QB Rating, I don't know what the highest ever is, but I can bet thats the highest qb rating for over 30 pass attempts.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Boston View Post
                                Yeah. I don't even see how this is in question.
                                because haters wanna hate?

                                I've had the unfortunate pleasure of watching this guy do it with two teams in the division. He's HoF bound for sure.

                                Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X

                                Debug Information