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Is Kurt Warner a Hall of Famer?

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  • #31

    If he wins the SB this year: Yes, of course.


    • #32
      Yes before this season...yes after this season...shouldn't really be a question.


      • #33
        Originally posted by Monomach View Post
        If you look at the career stats, he has like one season's worth of productivity separating him from Rich Gannon.
        Warner stats are significantly better. He has 208 TDs vs 180, Y/A 7.9 vs 6.8, completion percentage 65 vs 60. 32K yards vs 28K. Warner does have 128 Int vs 104 for Gannon. This is all with Warner having 124 games vs 157 for Gannon.

        I don't have Gannon Playoff stats, but Warner's are better than his regular season ones. I do remember his game vs Tampa Bay in the Super Bowl, Gannon really struggled.


        • #34

          It may not be on the first ballot, but he should and will get into the hall.

          Sig by Fenikz

          I remember NFLDC
          don't tell anyone, but Charlie Casserly is a dope fiend


          • #35
            Originally posted by Monomach View Post
            Montana was great and does belong in the hall, but Peyton Manning is already better and still building on that. In fact, Montana and Steve Young are pretty much next to eachother on the list if you're going to rate all-time QBs.

            Playoffs are not indicative of individual skill. They are a small sample size in a football career, and should be treated as such.
            Perhaps I'm a little too biased here, but I wouldn't rate Peyton Manning necessarily better than Joe Montana. It's very debatable.

            "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
            -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
            Originally posted by Borat
            Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.


            • #36
              Originally posted by Ness View Post
              I was mulling it over during last year's Super Bowl, but I think he is a lock now for sure.
              I was a firm No before the 2008 season and moved to borderline hovering on the side of Yes after last year's Super Bowl. I thought Warner needed another very good season in 2009 to cement his place which he has done. He's done enough for Canton now. This is his 6th high calibre season.

              His career reg season numbers are as follows:

              32,344 yds
              2666-4040 comp/att
              65.5 comp %
              208-128 TD/INT ratio
              93.7 QB rating
              3 4,000 yd seasons (incl 2 over 4,500)
              6 3,000 yd seasons (range from 3,417 to 4,830)
              52 300 yd games (one of 5 QBs ever to reach 50 and the fastest to do so)
              5 25+ TD seasons
              3 30+ TD seasons (incl a 41 and 36)
              2 time MVP
              2 time 1st team All-Pro
              Joint fastest ever with Dan Marino to reach 30,000 yds (114 games)

              Playoffs (incl last night)

              12 games (9-3 starting record)

              3,747 yds
              290-436 comp/att
              66.5 comp %
              31-13 TD-INT ratio
              104.6 QB rating (2nd to Bart Starr)
              6 games with more than 350 yds.
              2 games with 5 TD passes (and another with 4).
              Games with QB ratings of 154.1, 145.7, 143.0, 112.3 (SB defeat), 99.7 (SB win).

              1 Super Bowl ring
              1 Super Bowl MVP (with a record 414 yds passing and a game-winning 80 yd TD pass in the last two mins)
              3 Super Bowl appearances (and holds the 3 highest passing yardage games in SB history and the SB career record of 1,156 yds passing)
              Most yds passing in a single postseason - 1,147 (2008)
              Most TD passes in a single postseason - 11 (2008)

              The case against Warner are those five seasons between 2002-06.

              7,940 yds
              27 TDs
              30 INTs
              8-24 as a starter.


              • #37
                Originally posted by Monomach View Post
                This is not really true. I really, really wish it were. Rex Grossman gets accused of "leading" the Bears to a super bowl all the time. Horrible players get dragged kicking and screaming into the postseason every year. That's why all postseason success should be regarded as only team stats.

                But the wins are not an indicator of the individual's performance at all. If it were, this whole thing would be a walk in the park and I would petition to get them added to stat pages. People are not using how the player actually played. They're using the wins themselves as stats, which gives undeserving players incredible credit toward that enshrinement.

                Example: People are talking about Big Ben as a HOF hopeful already because he has two rings. It's incredibly over the top. The guy was outQBed in both of his super bowls. Doesn't matter to them because he got the wins. The fact that he wasn't great on the way to winning a postseason berth in those seasons? Ignored because he got the wins. I can't help but get all itchy over that, lol.
                I think you are also missing his League MVP trophy and multiple pro bowls as well? Just because Warner started late in the league doesn't mean he should be kept out of the hall.
                Stafford Sig by touchdownrams the rest of the sig by Sig Master Bone Krusher Avy by King of all avys renji

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                Originally posted by njx9
                oh please. as if canadians even know what beer is.


                • #38
                  Originally posted by The Legend View Post
                  Honestly I believe that was the greatest game ever played by a quarterback. You throw for over 30times and you have more touchdowns then incompletes thats just crazy. 154QB Rating, I don't know what the highest ever is, but I can bet thats the highest qb rating for over 30 pass attempts.
                  This will surprise a few people I'm sure but Peyton Manning had a perfect 158.3 rating in a 2003 playoff game vs Denver (Colts won 41-10). He did fall just short of 30 attempts though so Warner's mark may well be the highest ever with at least 30 att. I don't have those sort of numbers close at hand.

                  Manning's numbers that day for his perfect game were 22-26, 377, 5-0.


                  • #39
                    I say yes. On top of his impressive playoffs resume dont forget he is one of the most accurate QBs ever.

                    And I dont think you should count the couple years his career was looking like bad against him. He was unhealthy and all 3 of the Rams, Giants and Cardinals moved to younger QBs. Got hurt, Rams go with Bulger who had maybe 3 good years in the NFL. Has a .500 record in november with the Giants and they move to Eli Manning. A couple turnovers in Arizona and the job is given to Leinart.

                    Ken Wisenhunt saw that he still could play at a high level and he was damn right.

                    Get ready for a religious fest during his induction speech follks..
                    Last edited by Raider_fan_Canada; 01-11-2010, 12:02 PM.


                    • #40
                      100% hall of famer. no doubt.


                      Originally posted by JordanTaber
            's rocket surgery now, folks.


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Monomach View Post
                        Montana was great and does belong in the hall, but Peyton Manning is already better and still building on that. In fact, Montana and Steve Young are pretty much next to eachother on the list if you're going to rate all-time QBs.

                        Playoffs are not indicative of individual skill. They are a small sample size in a football career, and should be treated as such.

                        I could not disagree more, especially the part about where playoffs are not indicative of actual skill.

                        Peyton Manning faces a significant drop off in his numbers once he reaches the postseason. This is not a statistical anomoly and there's not a small sample size to pick from. To say he's better than a quarterback who was pretty much perfect in the playoffs and Superbowl (the seasons that actually matter) are laughable, at best.

                        The best way to judge how good a quarterback really is is to look at his postseason numbers compared to his regular season numbers. It's difficult for younger guys without a lot of playoff experience, but very easy with the older guys and current Hall of Famers. We'll do Peyton Manning, just for shits and giggles.

                        Manning has played in 15 playoff games in his career. That's basically one game short of a full regular season, so we'll add up all of his playoff numbers and see how they compare to his average season numbers. I won't count 2009 regular season stats, because he has not played any playoff games for the 2009 season yet.

                        Adding the numbers up, Manning averages 30 TDs, 15 INTs, 3807 yards, 64% completion percentage, with a QB rating of 95.2 in a 16 game regular season.

                        Here are his playoff numbers added up, in what essentially makes a 15 game playoff season: 4200 yards, 22 touchdowns, 17 interceptions, a 61.7% completion percentage, and an 85.0 rating.

                        Now let's compare Manning to Montana.
                        In the regular season, Montana averaged: 3100 yards, 20 TDs, 10 INTs, a 63% completion percentage, and a 92.3 passer rating.

                        His postseason totals are naturally higher than Peyton's because of his 23 postseason games. I'll give both his postseason totals and totals from his first 15 postseason games so we have an apples to apples comparison:

                        Postseason totals (23 games): 5772 yards, 45 TDs, 21 INTs, 62.7%, and a 95.2 QB rating.
                        Postseason totals: (first 15 games): 3735 yards, 26 TDs, 15 INTs, 60%, 89.1 QB rating

                        Now of course, statistics never tell the whole story, but we have a general idea of both of these guys' postseason performances. Interpret as you will.

                        Edit: I'll also add Tom Brady's numbers later, for comparison.


                        • #42
                          yes sir he is.


                          • #43
                            Every time he wins a playoff game this thread pops up.

                            He will probably make it into the Hall of Fame and as it stands right now he deserves to.


                            Originally posted by fenikz
                            His soft D really turns me off
                            ** RIP themaninblack. You will be missed. **


                            • #44
                              Only if Terrell Davis gets in. I think TD needs some HOF so I'm gonna say yes to Warner as well. Both were supremely dominant, just not for very long.

                              Originally posted by Scott Wright
                              Terrellezzzzzzzz Pryorzzzzzzzz!
                              Originally posted by njx9
                              do i tell you when to flip the burger?


                              • #45
                                @ yourfavestoner.

                                Funnily enough I was just looking at the postseason stats for Manning and Brady after Brady's bad game yesterday to see how they now compared. Of course we all know how many Super Bowl rings they have but there really isn't the huge disparity that many think there is and a good postseason run for Manning this year including a 2nd Super Bowl title for the Colts would make it very interesting.

                                18 games
                                4,108 yds
                                62.0 comp%
                                28-15 TD-INT ratio
                                85.5 QB rating
                                Games with QB rating below 80: 8 (Worst of 49.1)
                                Games with QB rating over 90: 7 (Best of 141.4)
                                Games with 3+ TD passes: 3 (all of them 3)
                                Games with 3+ INTs: 3 (all of them 3)
                                14-4 record (10-0 start)

                                15 games
                                4,208 yds
                                61.7 comp %
                                22-17 TD-INT ratio
                                85.0 QB rating
                                Games with QB rating below 80: 7 (Worst of 31.2)
                                Games with QB rating over 90: 6 (Best of 158.3)
                                Games with 3+ TD passes: 4 (incl a 5 and a 4)
                                Games with 3+ INTs: 2 (worst is 4)
                                7-8 record

                                Manning's last two games in the playoffs were both defeats to San Diego (2007 and 2008 seasons). However he had QB ratings of 97.7 and 90.4 in those games with over 700 yds 4 TDs and 2 INTs.

                                Meanwhile New England defeated San Diego in the 2006 and 2007 postseason. However in those two wins Brady was below average with QB ratings of 57.6 and 66.4. His TD-INT ratio was 4-6.
                                Last edited by boknows34; 01-11-2010, 01:40 PM.



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