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1970s Steelers vs 1980s 49ERS

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ness View Post
    The West Coast offense hasn't died out. It's still prevalent today in the majority of offenses. At least elements of it. As for referencing Oakland and Tampa Bay, it was John Gruden's experience with his old team that was the difference maker, not necessarily the offensive scheme of the Oakland Raiders and defensive scheme of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
    Please...any team that runs it is just running principles of it or incorporates some philosophies of it. They're West Coast Offenses in name only. The last true WCO team was Seattle under Mora/Knapp. We'll see how Carroll/Bates structure the offense.

    Philly runs a "WCO" but it's more Air Coryell than anything. It's predominantly shotgun with deep routes. Same goes for Green Bay and Minnesota. They're hybrid WCO schemes. Shannahan and Kubiak run a WCO in name, but their entire offense is based off the zone run and the bootleg off of that (eliminating half a field worth of reads) than any particular passing philosophy. They all have some WCO principals, yes, but they're very far removed from the original thing.

    It's like the spread offense in college football. Take Florida for example: look at how fundamentally different the offense was under Spurrier, Zook, and Meyer. Yet, it's never been called anything other than the "spread" there. Furthermore, look at how different the spread is at with Meyer at Florida, compared to Texas Tech under Leach, to Texas under Mack Brown, to the one run at Oklahoma. All are dubbed "spread offense" yet they're all so different that they're not even really comparable.
    Last edited by yourfavestoner; 05-25-2010, 12:55 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
      If they're allowed to keep two deep the majority of the time, there's only two really vulnerable spots on it - the deep middle, splitting the two safeties and the "honey hole" in between the CB and S. Problem is that hitting these spots with any sort of consistency requires a lot of time and protection.
      ...or Joe Montana.

      But fair enough.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
        ...or Joe Montana.

        But fair enough.
        Which is what makes this conversation so interesting. It was the perfect match of coaches, players, system, city/weather environment. And that's why they were a dynasty.

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        • #19
          The truth is, every philosophy now has been incorporated into every system.

          There are elements of Cover/Tampa 2 in every defense, elements of the 46 in every defense, the ZB in every defense etc.

          On offense, you see the same thing, just jumble all the different schemes together bc everyone uses some elements of every system.


          What separates offenses and defenses now is how much of one style in particular they like to use, and what type of players do they look for in their system.

          Every offense and defense is a hybrid of multiple schemes today, but how much of a hybrid depends on the coach's preferences. The last true Tampa 2 was Dungy's team in Indy and Kiffin's D in Tampa. Supposedly Raheem Morris plans on running a true Tampa 2 this year again, so Tampa will be the only true Tampa 2 team left (Indy isn't really a true Tampa 2 anymore).

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          • #20
            Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
            The truth is, every philosophy now has been incorporated into every system.

            There are elements of Cover/Tampa 2 in every defense, elements of the 46 in every defense, the ZB in every defense etc.

            On offense, you see the same thing, just jumble all the different schemes together bc everyone uses some elements of every system.


            What separates offenses and defenses now is how much of one style in particular they like to use, and what type of players do they look for in their system.

            Every offense and defense is a hybrid of multiple schemes today, but how much of a hybrid depends on the coach's preferences. The last true Tampa 2 was Dungy's team in Indy and Kiffin's D in Tampa. Supposedly Raheem Morris plans on running a true Tampa 2 this year again, so Tampa will be the only true Tampa 2 team left (Indy isn't really a true Tampa 2 anymore).
            And the Giants under Fewell. ;)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
              And the Giants under Fewell. ;)

              I'm still in denial. Just know when you see the Giants get lit up during the season, somewhere in Jersey at that exact moment, I'm going to be going nuts and throwing **** around in my living room haha.

              Seriously, I could coordinate our defense. It baffles me how our DCs keep ******* it up.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                Please...any team that runs it is just running principles of it or incorporates some philosophies of it. They're West Coast Offenses in name only. The last true WCO team was Seattle under Mora/Knapp. We'll see how Carroll/Bates structure the offense.

                Philly runs a "WCO" but it's more Air Coryell than anything. It's predominantly shotgun with deep routes. Same goes for Green Bay and Minnesota. They're hybrid WCO schemes. Shannahan and Kubiak run a WCO in name, but their entire offense is based off the zone run and the bootleg off of that (eliminating half a field worth of reads) than any particular passing philosophy. They all have some WCO principals, yes, but they're very far removed from the original thing.

                It's like the spread offense in college football. Take Florida for example: look at how fundamentally different the offense was under Spurrier, Zook, and Meyer. Yet, it's never been called anything other than the "spread" there. Furthermore, look at how different the spread is at with Meyer at Florida, compared to Texas Tech under Leach, to Texas under Mack Brown, to the one run at Oklahoma. All are dubbed "spread offense" yet they're all so different that they're not even really comparable.
                You completely misunderstood what I just said. I said the west coast hasn't died out. I never said that any team runs a pure version of the west coast. That hasn't been done since the early 1990's. You just wasted all of your breath for nothing. I merely said that elements of it still exist in most offenses, therefore it hasn't died out. So I don't know why you just went on an entire tangent of what I already said in my initial post in one sentence.

                "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                Originally posted by Borat
                Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Ness View Post
                  You completely misunderstood what I just said. I said the west coast hasn't died out. I never said that any team runs a pure version of the west coast. That hasn't been done since the early 1990's. You just wasted all of your breath for nothing. I merely said that elements of it still exist in most offenses, therefore it hasn't died out. So I don't know why you just went on an entire tangent of what I already said in my initial post in one sentence.
                  By dying out, I meant that teams are no longer going out of their way to hire WCO disciples, build their teams around it, and draft around that philosophy like it seemed every team was doing in the 90s. That's all. The same way that the Cover Two has died out of the NFL for the time being. Sure, there are still principals of it in every offense, and a couple of teams still run it, but it's ultimately dead as a league-wide trend.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                    By dying out, I meant that teams are no longer going out of their way to hire WCO disciples, build their teams around it, and draft around that philosophy like it seemed every team was doing in the 90s. That's all. The same way that the Cover Two has died out of the NFL for the time being. Sure, there are still principals of it in every offense, and a couple of teams still run it, but it's ultimately dead as a league-wide trend.
                    Didn't Mike Shanahan just get hired again? And Gary Kubiak's tenure in Houston isn't that old. Probably won't be long until Mike's son is hired for a job as well. Gruden I'm sure could get a job if he wanted to get back in the NFL. Probably Holmgren as well. Most teams, or not all of them have elements of the west coast offense in their current system. But no one has run a pure version of it for years. And to say that teams don't build around the west coast offense is trivial. Seeing as no one runs a pure version of it anymore, but still have elements of it in their offenses, it's really difficult to answer that question as if it were a black or white answer.

                    "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                    -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                    Originally posted by Borat
                    Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Ness View Post
                      Didn't Mike Shanahan just get hired again? And Gary Kubiak's tenure in Houston isn't that old. Probably won't be long until Mike's son is hired for a job as well. Gruden I'm sure could get a job if he wanted to get back in the NFL. Probably Holmgren as well. Most teams, or not all of them have elements of the west coast offense in their current system. But no one has run a pure version of it for years. And to say that teams don't build around the west coast offense is trivial. Seeing as no one runs a pure version of it anymore, but still have elements of it in their offenses, it's really difficult to answer that question as if it were a black or white answer.
                      Originally posted by yourfavestoner
                      Shannahan and Kubiak run a WCO in name, but their entire offense is based off the zone run and the bootleg off of that (eliminating half a field worth of reads) than any particular passing philosophy. They all have some WCO principals, yes, but they're very far removed from the original thing.
                      10 characters

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                        10 characters
                        Mike and Kubiak are still disciples of the WCO philosophy. Just because they've revamped their tactics over the years doesn't mean they still don't use a lot of principles of the WCO to incorporate into their offense.

                        "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                        -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                        Originally posted by Borat
                        Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Too much talent on both sides of the ball for me to think either team would have a matchup advantage over the other.
                          Bradshaw/Stallworth/Swann are gonna make plays against any D. Same for Montana/Solomon/Rice/Taylor/Craig.

                          The Steelers front 7 would definitely pressure Montana and force him out of the pockei, and I can't see them running the ball all that effectively either.

                          Same for Franco Harris, I imagine yards on the ground would be hard to come by for Pittsburgh.

                          For me, it would come down to which unit as a whole is more dominant; the 49ers offense or the Steelers D??

                          Meaning that if the Steelers won, it would be because of the play of their D, not their admittedly formidable offense.

                          And if the 49ers won, if would be because of the play of their offense, although their D was highly underrated.

                          The Steelers best team (IMO 1975, '78 or '79)) against the 49ers best, (pick 'em, '85 or '89) would be one of the greatest games EVER.

                          In the biggest clutch game ever, I'd have to lean towards the best clutch QB I ever saw, Joe Cool, finding a way to win.

                          But the Steelers would have to lose in front of my eyes, no way you could seriously bet against those 70s squads.

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                          • #28
                            70's Steelers

                            I would take the 70's Steelers in this one, especially if Mel Blount would have pressed Jerry Rice at the line to get him out of rhythm. Not too many teams played the Niner offense physical in the 80's. They played too much zone against them. Besides, Pittsburgh had more talent, and they have the best team that was ever put on a football field. San Fran was good, but they were a bit overrated, like a lot of the 80's and early-90's SB winners that beat on average or finesse AFC teams.

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                            • #29
                              The 49ers would win and although it may be close, the WCO of the 90's 49ers would eventually prevail over the D of the 70's Steelers.




                              2 C 5:6-8 Jakob Murphy aka themaninblack

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by CJSchneider View Post
                                The 49ers would win and although it may be close, the WCO of the 90's 49ers would eventually prevail over the D of the 70's Steelers.
                                Stop sucking up to Brent.

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