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  • Originally posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
    2 more Superbowls, 5 more wins, and 5 less losses makes Tom Brady significantly better than Manning in the playoffs.
    There is more to a player than winning. Is Charles Haley the best playoff player of all time? Other things come into it. There are reasons that Tom Brady has lost only 4 times and Peyton Manning has lost 9 times and not all of those reasons have anything to do with either Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.
    Originally posted by George Carlin

    In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

    In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.

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    • Tom Brady since becoming QB for the Patriots has been one and done once in the playoffs once(last year). He has lost one playoff game at home in that time(last year). His four playoff losses have been the wildcard round at home to Baltimore(2009), the Superbowl against the Giants(2007), the conference championship game at Indianapolis(2006) and the divisonal round game against Denver at Invesco Field(2005). Two of those teams went on to win the Superbowl. In 18 games to lose once at home, once at a neutral site, and twice away is a good record if you ask me. They were only defeated heavily in that period once(last year), beaten relatively solidly once(2005 by Denver) and lost the other two by a combined 7 points. Tom Brady will go down as the best playoff QB of his generation unless Roethelisberger has a strong end to his career and Brady doesn't, and he will be considered in the top 5 all time playoff QBs if not top 3. Manning will not even be considered in the top 10 playoff QBs all time


      BoneKrusher killing it with the sig

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      • Does anyone else wonder if Ray Lewis is going to be left off this list? I mean I would have guessed he would have been in the 30-40 range. I would be a little surprised if he is in the top 20

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        • Originally posted by Ravens1991 View Post
          Does anyone else wonder if Ray Lewis is going to be left off this list? I mean I would have guessed he would have been in the 30-40 range. I would be a little surprised if he is in the top 20
          He'll be on it... they will just overrate him

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          • In this thread, we pretend that when a team loses in the playoffs, it's the quarterback's fault.

            So basically, Dan Marino is a piece of under-.500 garbage.

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            • Originally posted by Monomach View Post
              In this thread, we pretend that when a team loses in the playoffs, it's the quarterback's fault.

              So basically, Dan Marino is a piece of under-.500 garbage.
              Does anybody really rate Marino over Montana or Elway? Why or why not? He's a better passer in almost every conceivable category.

              FWIW, Montana was considered a game manager earlier in his career and blossomed statistically later. Sounds awfully familiar to me.

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              • Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                Does anybody really rate Marino over Montana or Elway? Why or why not? He's a better passer in almost every conceivable category.

                FWIW, Montana was considered a game manager earlier in his career and blossomed statistically later. Sounds awfully familiar to me.
                When it comes to QBs like Marino and i'm throwing Manning in there too, my question is this. You have absolutely killed the opposition throughout the regular season. Regardless of any other thing, weapons, defense, offensive line, playcalling etc, why could you do it in the regular season but struggle in the postseason?

                The Colts are the best regular season team of the last decade but came away with one Superbowl. Marino killed all in his path in the 80s but didn't win a Superbowl. Something has to be said for being clutch. I can't remember who said it in another thread but Adam Vinatieri is 70% in his Superbowl career on field goals. But he was clutch at the right moments. Those moments are what seperate the good from the great.


                BoneKrusher killing it with the sig

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                • Personally, I think Marino had garbage to work with... the Marks brothers were ok, but overrated and who else did he have besides them?

                  Never had a running game, his receivers were average at best, and he put up all of those ridiculous numbers before the rule changes.

                  I've got him in the best 5 QBs of all time.

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                  • I don't particularly like this list so far.

                    All I'm saying is LT better be in the top 5.

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                    • Originally posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
                      Personally, I think Marino had garbage to work with... the Marks brothers were ok, but overrated and who else did he have besides them?

                      Never had a running game, his receivers were average at best, and he put up all of those ridiculous numbers before the rule changes.

                      I've got him in the best 5 QBs of all time.
                      Agreed. I don't see how he can't be anyone's top 5.
                      -Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

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                      • The term "clutch" is flawed.

                        When you have a sample set of one game to decide if a player is "clutch," you can't decide anything.

                        From a statistic stand point, there is a perfect argument that Tom Brady is one of the least clutch QBs of all time. Playing in four games and winning three can be 100% luck or 100% talent. Technically speaking, if he were an absolute C average QB, winning 3/4 isn't that unlikely.

                        Even if a player is actually absolutely clutch, missing one attempt blows the image. If the most clutch player misses his 1 of 500 attempts while the camera is on, he's 0/1 in the spotlight. Same thing in reverse.

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                        • The Dolphins defense and running game held back the Dolphins during the Marino era. Troy Stradford, Sammie Smith, Lorenzo Hampton, Karim-Abdul-Jabbar, Mark Higgs, Bernie Parmalee, JJ Johnson, Woody Bennett, Tony Nathan and Andra Franklin all led the Dolphins in rushing during the Marino era. That's 10 RBs and only one (Abdul-Jabbar) ever cracked 1,000 yds in a Dolphins uniform.

                          From 1984 (Marino's 1st full yr as starter) Miami were ranked in the Top 8 offenses 11 times in the next 12 years. In those same 12 seasons Miami's best rankings on defense was 7th and 10th. The other 10 seasons the Dolphins were ranked in the bottom half of the NFL, including the bottom six 6 times in 7 seasons (85-91).

                          Their defensive ranking from 1984-94 in a 28 team NFL were as follows:
                          19th, 23rd, 26th, 26th, 26th, 24th, 7th, 25th, 10th, 20th, 19th.

                          From 1995-97 in a 30 team NFL the Dolphins D was 16th, 17th and 26th. Miami's Defenses did improve to 3rd and 5th for Dan's last two seasons but it was too little too late. They won their wild card games both years but were then crushed by Denver and Jacksonville in the playoffs 38-3 and 62-7.

                          Marino's career without a decent RB or Top defense was like Barry Sanders lacking a top D and a decent QB.

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                          • Originally posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
                            Personally, I think Marino had garbage to work with... the Marks brothers were ok, but overrated and who else did he have besides them?

                            Never had a running game, his receivers were average at best, and he put up all of those ridiculous numbers before the rule changes.

                            I've got him in the best 5 QBs of all time.
                            I know comparing him and manning is dumb, If Marino had these rules and the colts WRs and EJ, he would of won a superbowl or 2.

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                            • Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
                              Manning:
                              18 games (9-9)
                              435-692
                              62.9%
                              5,164 yds
                              28 TDs
                              19 INTs
                              7.46 ypa
                              87.6 QB rating
                              1-1 Super Bowl record (1 MVP)


                              Brady:
                              18 games (14-4)
                              395-637
                              62.0%
                              4,108 yds
                              28 TDs
                              15 INTs
                              6.45 ypa
                              85.5 QB rating
                              3-1 Super Bowl record (2 MVP)

                              How do you work out that Manning plays better in the postseason than Brady?

                              It must be the extra .9% completion percentage. It bears no relevance of who he was throwing to all those years or that Brady only had elite weapons for two years in the postseason(4 games). Oh, or it must be the passer rating which is definitely the best way to determine how well a QB plays and is a massive 2.1 points above Brady. Or wait I know it must be all the TDs he's thrown more of than Brady...oh wait, or the fact he's thrown less INTs...oh wait, or it must be he has a better playoff record than Brady...oh wait, or at least he's won more Superbowls than Brady...oh wait, or that he's won more Superbowl MVP awards than Brady...oh wait.

                              OK you got me. Im stumped, Ive gotta ask. How the hell is Manning better than Brady in the postseason?
                              If you don't count Peyton wins/stats against broncos and chiefs, his stats are below average.

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                              • Originally posted by Seamus2602 View Post
                                There is more to a player than winning. Is Charles Haley the best playoff player of all time? Other things come into it. There are reasons that Tom Brady has lost only 4 times and Peyton Manning has lost 9 times and not all of those reasons have anything to do with either Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.
                                Qb's get the most credit for superbowl wins look at Peyton only superbowl win, he played average at best and was MVP not to mention he played like garbage during their run(in the playoffs). If Charles Haley was QB, he would be a first valot HOF because of his 5 SB wins(He should be in the HOF right now but the media hates him).
                                Last edited by Complex; 10-22-2010, 10:44 PM.

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