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  • Originally posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
    I hope you guys know that just because Tony G is an all-time great TE, doesn't mean he still is one.
    I'm actually pretty sure that if Tony G is an all-time great TE, that means that he's an all-time great TE. He may not be the same player he once was, but he's really smart and I'd still probably take him over Olsen.

    BK

    Originally posted by AcheTen
    JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
    Originally posted by abaddon41_80
    Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
    Originally posted by JBCX
    Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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    • Originally posted by Rosebud View Post
      I'm actually pretty sure that if Tony G is an all-time great TE, that means that he's an all-time great TE. He may not be the same player he once was, but he's really smart and I'd still probably take him over Olsen.

      Yeah, I didn't word that well at all. I meant to say still isn't a great TE now. He's really best served as a decoy/inside the 10 threat at this point. His speed is pretty much shot, and his hands haven't been great at all this year. He's a valuable target for 3rd and not too far/goaline area where he can just sit down in front of someone, but he's really not going to do anything all that explosive at this point.

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      • Tony Gonzalez is no better than Todd Heap at this point in their careers. He has lost a step and a half. The Ravens have a better line, equal at TE and RB (though in this context Ray Rice helps the passing game much more than Turner.) The only category that the Falcons are better than the Ravens at is Roddy White, but let's not act as if Anquan Boldin is a chump. Plus Mason and Houshmandzadeh kick Michael Jenkins and Harry Douglas' asses.

        Oh and Matt Ryan is 7th in yards, has a 12:5 TD/INT ratio and the Falcons are atop the NFC Standings.

        May not be better than Eli Manning? He is already much better than Eli was at this point in their careers. He is doing better than Eli Manning this year. WTF

        In conclusion:


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        • Love you Shiver.

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          • I just got off work. I was in a mood. :-p

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            • Originally posted by Jvig43 View Post
              Now I hate to just bring up stats when arguing but without a star WR this year to throw to Orton is still out producing Ryan (more yards, less interceptions right around the same amount of TDs), without a running game either. Now whats your argument for Ryan being better other then well Orton had a bad game and Ryan didnt hence forth, Ryan = better. And please stop just saying I am right, because you havent used any evidence to support your statement other then "well im on the right side of the argument".
              Kyle Orton has 1 less interception than Ryan, but in that case, he has 'less interceptions' whereas when Ryan has 1 more TD than Orton he has 'around the same TDs?' Good job trying to hide your bias and the fact that Orton has 24 more attempts.

              The reason Matt Ryan doesn't put up magical numbers like Kyle Orton is because he doesn't have an offensive genius that uses the spread uber effectively like Josh McDaniels. The Falcons are a power running team that is held back by the predictability and lack of creativity by the OC Mike Mularkey. Watch a Falcons game and you will see the same curls and outs day in and day out and lack of shots downfield (the latter has been improving). Sometimes they work (usually at home, when michael turner is going) and sometimes they don't (away games...). If the Falcons had a Josh McDaniels or Sean Payton at helm and were throwing the ball 40 times a game (with 34 of those passes coming from shotgun), then ya, Ryan is gonna have different, and probably more inflated numbers. It's not like he isn't capable of doing it either; he threw for 4500 yards at BC with **** talent around him.

              Orton was also playing against two of the better defenses the last two games, so any QBs completion percentage is going to drop. Even with two games of 41% he still is tied with Ryan for completion % for the season. And more Clutch in the fourth Quarter, like that time he threw a pick in the San fran game and got bailed out by White and then Atlanta kicked a field goal to win it? Hmmmm, so any QB who was ever traded is basically bad right? They might be even worse if a team just lets them walk by that standard, so hence forth, Drew Brees....Not very good.
              I don't think the 2 games of 41% is helping Orton's cause...Ryan's comp. % has been at a steady 62%-63% with anomalies of 54 and 57 coming during away games against a surprising Browns defensive unit led by Rob Ryan (you know, the one that picked off Brees 4 times in NO) and the always blitz happy Eagles. Orton's anomalies came at home against the Jets (Ryan completed 47% against the Jets in NY and came away with a W last year) and the Raiders (last time Ryan played in Oakland (2 years ago), he posted his career high QB rating with 134).

              And no not clutch in 4th quarter when he threw an interception with less than 2 minutes ago. Clutch when he drove the Falcons 68 yards in 1:09 to win the game despite having one of the worst games I've seen out of him as a Falcon.

              That is what is great about Ryan that only Falcon fans can appreciate and isn't available in the comp.% or # of TDs and interceptions. Oh wait...it is.

              25-12 since starting as a rookie and a 16-1 home record. Not bad for having a defense that currently ranks 24th in yards allowed, and finished 21st and 24th in 2009 and 2008, respectively. And that's why Ryan > Orton.
              Last edited by d34ng3l021; 10-26-2010, 03:20 AM.

              "He's the leader of the next great class of NFL players." - John Elway on Matt Ryan

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              • Orton is better than Ryan because he can put up the same kind of numbers with lesser talent. Roddy White is amazing, Michael Turner is a beast, but neither stacks up to BRANDON LLOYD!!!
                Originally posted by SNIPER26
                fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.

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                • *shrug* He's not better than Eli yet and just because he's ahead of Eli's pace now doesn't mean he'll ever surpass Eli. You should know that, I mean is Big Ben better than Peyton because he had a better rookie year? No, because he still has to make the developments that Peyton did, could he still make them? Sure, but it's not some sort of guarantee just because he started better.

                  I like Matt Ryan but he doesn't have a deep ball that comes even close to Eli's and he doesn't carry his offense as effectively as Eli, now could Ryan develop to match Eli in those areas? Of course, but we don't know if he will or won't until he does.

                  BK

                  Originally posted by AcheTen
                  JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
                  Originally posted by abaddon41_80
                  Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
                  Originally posted by JBCX
                  Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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                  • Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                    Tony Gonzalez is no better than Todd Heap at this point in their careers. He has lost a step and a half. The Ravens have a better line, equal at TE and RB (though in this context Ray Rice helps the passing game much more than Turner.) The only category that the Falcons are better than the Ravens at is Roddy White, but let's not act as if Anquan Boldin is a chump. Plus Mason and Houshmandzadeh kick Michael Jenkins and Harry Douglas' asses.

                    Oh and Matt Ryan is 7th in yards, has a 12:5 TD/INT ratio and the Falcons are atop the NFC Standings.

                    May not be better than Eli Manning? He is already much better than Eli was at this point in their careers. He is doing better than Eli Manning this year. WTF

                    In conclusion:

                    Umm....now I'll be the first to admit that Eli could be having a better year (INTs are way too high, even though more than half went off his WRs hands), but he's 6th in the league in yards and 1st in TDs.

                    And has a better completion % I believe. If you want to say Ryan is having a better 3rd year than Eli did, I won't argue that. But he's not having a better year than Eli this year.

                    I just don't like that arm on Ryan. Seeing that one bomb pass to Roddy, its like he had to put everything he had in that throw, and it was a lollipop in a dome.

                    He's good, don't get me wrong, but there's limitations in his game that I just don't like.

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                    • Yeah, Ryan's deep ball is a real problem...

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                      • I love Gus Johnson.

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                        • Originally posted by ATLDirtyBirds View Post
                          I love Gus Johnson.
                          i missed the game cause there weren't any working streams but i watched the highlights on nfl.com and gus' commentary is so awesome.

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                          • For having "limitations" he has the same amount of 20+ yard passes as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees; more than Tom Brady and Joe Flacco. He is 6th in the league in 40+ yard passes.

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                            • Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                              For having "limitations" he has the same amount of 20+ yard passes as Peyton Manning, Drew Brees; more than Tom Brady and Joe Flacco. He is 6th in the league in 40+ yard passes.
                              How many of those are a result of YAC? Serious question.

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                              • Yards after catch or contact? The first can be attributed to a good pass if that's what you mean. Besides, Ryan has hit White for two forty yard touchdowns this season, on perfect throws, one outdoors and one in the Georgia Dome. Neither of which came from YAC.
                                Last edited by Shiver; 10-26-2010, 03:36 PM.

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