Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Game Planning and Play calling

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Bump. I moved this thread to the main forum so everyone can see what goes into a week's preparation by an NFL team.

    Boss did an excellent job explaining what an offense does during the week and why our perception of playcalling and adjustments are not accurate.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
      Bump. I moved this thread to the main forum so everyone can see what goes into a week's preparation by an NFL team.

      Boss did an excellent job explaining what an offense does during the week and why our perception of playcalling and adjustments are not accurate.
      Hey BBD, I was wondering why this was in the main section. I thought I must have hit something by mistake. But I see you have the power of moving threads!


      This is just a general way of how coaches go about their business of game planning and then play calling. Obviously depends on the staff, and OC, and how he runs his meetings. So things are obviously slightly different depending on the team, HC, egos, staff, and personnel. But this should provide some insight on the general way of how coaches actually go about game planning week to week, and then call plays. This holds true for all levels of the game. Though HS might be very watered down and less detailed as the college and NFL ranks.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
        Hey BBD, I was wondering why this was in the main section. I thought I must have hit something by mistake. But I see you have the power of moving threads!


        This is just a general way of how coaches go about their business of game planning and then play calling. Obviously depends on the staff, and OC, and how he runs his meetings. So things are obviously slightly different depending on the team, HC, egos, staff, and personnel. But this should provide some insight on the general way of how coaches actually go about game planning week to week, and then call plays. This holds true for all levels of the game. Though HS might be very watered down and less detailed as the college and NFL ranks.
        I'd love to hear a defensive coach's perspective on this too. Im curious to see how they approach their gameplan.

        My guess is some DC's focus more on attacking protection schemes (the blitz heavy guys) while other DCs might favor an approach that focuses more on coverage (Billichick/Crennel).

        I know they put a lot of time into both, but Im sure some guys will focus their game plan more on pressure while others want to disguise their coverage more than disguise their rush.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
          I'd love to hear a defensive coach's perspective on this too. Im curious to see how they approach their gameplan.

          My guess is some DC's focus more on attacking protection schemes (the blitz heavy guys) while other DCs might favor an approach that focuses more on coverage (Billichick/Crennel).

          I know they put a lot of time into both, but Im sure some guys will focus their game plan more on pressure while others want to disguise their coverage more than disguise their rush.
          My friend Dave is a defensive coach. I will ask him. If I ever get to talk to Coach Campo, then I can ask him to give me some insight.

          I am not sure how defensive players really go about it. I know they count formations, down/distances, running and passing concepts. That I know for sure, the rest I am not sure.

          My guess is that they have concrete ways they line up against each formation the offense throws. I say that because that's what we look for. If we play a defense next game, I want to see how the Lions line up against each formation that the Rams used, and prior teams. From there then I go on and find weakness and install from there. So conversely, I am guessing the defense checks out the formations we use, and line up based on what they like.

          Well the DC may, but the other position coaches have duties too. Not sure about those, but we on offense, have specific tasks when it comes to reviewing tape, and what to look for. Then in a meeting, we pool it all together, and the opposing team's defense starts to take shape, and then we go from there on how to attack it.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
            My friend Dave is a defensive coach. I will ask him. If I ever get to talk to Coach Campo, then I can ask him to give me some insight.

            I am not sure how defensive players really go about it. I know they count formations, down/distances, running and passing concepts. That I know for sure, the rest I am not sure.

            My guess is that they have concrete ways they line up against each formation the offense throws. I say that because that's what we look for. If we play a defense next game, I want to see how the Lions line up against each formation that the Rams used, and prior teams. From there then I go on and find weakness and install from there. So conversely, I am guessing the defense checks out the formations we use, and line up based on what they like.

            Well the DC may, but the other position coaches have duties too. Not sure about those, but we on offense, have specific tasks when it comes to reviewing tape, and what to look for. Then in a meeting, we pool it all together, and the opposing team's defense starts to take shape, and then we go from there on how to attack it.
            All the studying during the week really shows the casual fan how important it is to have intelligent players if you run a complex scheme.

            I personally favor schemes that are simple for the players to digest, but complex in nature, like Rex's scheme. The complexity comes from the formations and blitzes, but the responsibilities for the players are simple so they can just go out and be athletes.

            But when you look at a scheme like Bellichick/Crennel run, its very complicated. The checks the defenders have to make based on formation and coverages really makes it difficult for a dumb player to thrive in.

            That's why they go after smart guys and not necessarily the athletes everyone else wants.

            Comment


            • #21
              The D definitely lines up based on the offense if only because Dlineman line up based on the OLineman. Thus depending on the formation you're facing you'll adjust where you lineup, or not, depending on the formation.

              As for the play calling I don't know enough about that, I can only speak to how DL are taught since that's what I played in high school, that's what my buddy played at UB and that's what I know most, although I suspect that BBD is right in that the defense, just like the offense, groups its plays by down and distance as well as by formation.

              BK

              Originally posted by AcheTen
              JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
              Originally posted by abaddon41_80
              Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
              Originally posted by JBCX
              Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

              Comment


              • #22
                I know it was much simpler at the HS level. We literally had 5 formations, 43, 43 under, 43 over and base nickel and base dime.

                And we ran the same 10 plays out of each formation. Very simple.

                Coach wanted us focusing more on our individual technique and spend more time improving our athleticism and didn't want to overload our brain with too much reacting. He just wanted us to perfect our technique, show up as athletic as possible, and just play.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
                  My friend Dave is a defensive coach. I will ask him. If I ever get to talk to Coach Campo, then I can ask him to give me some insight.

                  I am not sure how defensive players really go about it. I know they count formations, down/distances, running and passing concepts. That I know for sure, the rest I am not sure.

                  My guess is that they have concrete ways they line up against each formation the offense throws. I say that because that's what we look for. If we play a defense next game, I want to see how the Lions line up against each formation that the Rams used, and prior teams. From there then I go on and find weakness and install from there. So conversely, I am guessing the defense checks out the formations we use, and line up based on what they like.

                  Well the DC may, but the other position coaches have duties too. Not sure about those, but we on offense, have specific tasks when it comes to reviewing tape, and what to look for. Then in a meeting, we pool it all together, and the opposing team's defense starts to take shape, and then we go from there on how to attack it.
                  Here's how we did it:

                  Break down every play the upcoming team has run so far this season (and some from last season if it's early in the year). Plays are broken down by down and distance, formation, hashmark, and what play is run.

                  The most important thing is trying to narrow down the run/pass percentages out of certain down and distances (first and possession, first and ten, 2nd and 7+, 2nd and 3-6, 2nd and -3, 3rd and 7+, 3rd and 3-6, 3rd and -3, etc). Then you get the percentages of what plays are run out of certain formations and hashmarks.

                  Like offense, each position group will also be assigned to analyze personnel for their position group. D-line coaches will look at their pass protection schemes, do they tip off run/pass by their stance, do they give away pass on play action by popping up high instead of firing out, etc. Secondary coaches analyze WR formations/groupings and route combinations as well as quarterback tendencies. The linebackers coaches do a little bit of everything. They analyze pass protections, formation groupings, runningback substitution tendencies, etc.

                  When you break down every single play of an offense, you get a pretty good idea of what they're going to do in almost every conceivable down and distance, as well as who they like to go to in certain situations, what kind of pass protection you'll see out of certain formations (which is huge if you're a blitzing team), etc. I'd imagine a team like the Jets focuses on that almost exclusively during the week, since they run so much man anyways. They want to find the holes in their protection schemes, and which ones they run out of certain formations.

                  Personnel groupings are so, so huge too. You'll find things out like in 2nd and 3-6 they've got a 50-50 split between run and pass and they like balanced sets. But they're 80% run when they've got a fullback in as opposed to 35% run when they're in double tight, single back.
                  Last edited by yourfavestoner; 10-12-2010, 10:42 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                    Here's how we did it:

                    Break down every play the upcoming team has run so far this season (and some from last season if it's early in the year). Plays are broken down by down and distance, formation, hashmark, and what play is run.

                    The most important thing is trying to narrow down the run/pass percentages out of certain down and distances (first and possession, first and ten, 2nd and 7+, 2nd and 3-6, 2nd and -3, 3rd and 7+, 3rd and 3-6, 3rd and -3, etc). Then you get the percentages of what plays are run out of certain formations and hashmarks.

                    Like offense, each position group will also be assigned to analyze personnel for their position group. D-line coaches will look at their pass protection schemes, do they tip off run/pass by their stance, do they give away pass on play action by popping up high instead of firing out, etc. Secondary coaches analyze WR formations/groupings and route combinations as well as quarterback tendencies. The linebackers coaches do a little bit of everything. They analyze pass protections, formation groupings, runningback substitution tendencies, etc.

                    When you break down every single play of an offense, you get a pretty good idea of what they're going to do in almost every conceivable down and distance, as well as who they like to go to in certain situations, what kind of pass protection you'll see out of certain formations (which is huge if you're a blitzing team), etc. I'd imagine a team like the Jets focuses on that almost exclusively during the week, since they run so much man anyways. They want to find the holes in their protection schemes, and which ones they run out of certain formations.

                    Personnel groupings are so, so huge too. You'll find things out like in 2nd and 3-6 they've got a 50-50 split between run and pass and they like balanced sets. But they're 80% run when they've got a fullback in as opposed to 35% run when they're in double tight, single back.



                    What level is this for?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
                      What level is this for?
                      That was just for high school, but the staff that I coached on had quite a few guys who had coached at smaller colleges. We ran a pretty complex 3-3-3 stack.

                      Obviously the higher level you go, the more information their is to process and the schemes get infinitely more complex. In the pros, the quality control guys probably make 10-15 different video cutups a week, just based on certain things like motion, personnel groupings, etc. I imagine the same basic process for breaking teams down stays relatively similar, though.

                      Another thing I forgot to mention is the playcalling for the first twenty or so plays vs the rest of the game. Some teams, coaches, and quarterbacks are great for the first portion of the game, because they're running off a script and disregarding down and distance to eliminate their tendencies. Do they immediately revert back to their tendencies once their script is done? Does the QB lose or gain a feel for the game once he's off the script?

                      There's so much information to process it's insane.
                      Last edited by yourfavestoner; 10-12-2010, 11:17 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Wow. Sounds like our system was too basic.

                        I just assumed every HS system was basic like ours.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                          That was just for high school, but the staff that I coached on had quite a few guys who had coached at smaller colleges. We ran a pretty complex 3-3-3 stack.

                          Obviously the higher level you go, the more information their is to process and the schemes get infinitely more complex. In the pros, the quality control guys probably make 10-15 different video cutups a week, just based on certain things like motion, personnel groupings, etc. I imagine the same basic process for breaking teams down stays relatively similar, though.

                          Another thing I forgot to mention is the playcalling for the first twenty or so plays vs the rest of the game. Some teams, coaches, and quarterbacks are great for the first portion of the game, because they're running off a script and disregarding down and distance to eliminate their tendencies. Do they immediately revert back to their tendencies once their script is done? Does the QB lose or gain a feel for the game once he's off the script?

                          There's so much information to process it's insane.
                          Yeah just curious. That's usually the general way of doing it, and the higher you go the more information you need to break down film. Also, the higher you go, the more information is available due to better technology and people to give you whatever you need. For example, in the NFL coaches have access to whatever film they want going back however many years they want. The video guys do an incredible job in creating cut ups that are given to each position coach.

                          From there you can ask for almost anything.. Everytime, the defense gets flagged for offsides, I want a cut up. Ok, on 3rd down they blitz, give me a cut up of every single blitz on 3rd down. So a special dvd is made of that. So the access to information makes it easier to do your job.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                            Wow. Sounds like our system was too basic.

                            I just assumed every HS system was basic like ours.
                            Haha bum! : P

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Boss+Manning=Banning View Post
                              Yeah just curious. That's usually the general way of doing it, and the higher you go the more information you need to break down film. Also, the higher you go, the more information is available due to better technology and people to give you whatever you need. For example, in the NFL coaches have access to whatever film they want going back however many years they want. The video guys do an incredible job in creating cut ups that are given to each position coach.

                              From there you can ask for almost anything.. Everytime, the defense gets flagged for offsides, I want a cut up. Ok, on 3rd down they blitz, give me a cut up of every single blitz on 3rd down. So a special dvd is made of that. So the access to information makes it easier to do your job.
                              Yeah, having all that footage must be awesome, making the cut ups isn't that much work, as long as you label your clips well, but actually having that high angle footage is so key.

                              BK

                              Originally posted by AcheTen
                              JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
                              Originally posted by abaddon41_80
                              Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
                              Originally posted by JBCX
                              Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                                Wow. Sounds like our system was too basic.

                                I just assumed every HS system was basic like ours.
                                Eh, basic is better at the high school level. I always felt like the offense at the school I coached at was perennial crappy because it was way too complicated for HS kids and we tried to do wayyyy too much. We spread ourselves way too thin and never spent the time to get GOOD at one particular thing. We had no identity and we were average in all facets. When you only have three hours of practice time a day and you're dealing with 16 year old kids, KISS.

                                I LOVED the offense at the school that I played at. Two formations: I pro and I twins. High diddle diddle, we're coming up the middle, try and stop us.

                                We had about seven running plays, and we could execute every single one of them perfectly against any front or blitz you could throw at us.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X

                                Debug Information