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  • #46
    rivers doesnt suck....never said that. i actually called him a great passer as a QB, but theres more to being a QB imo, thats all im saying.

    i just dont think he sucks, but i also dont think legendary garbage time numbers=greatness
    E]

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    • #47
      Rivers > Big Ben >>> Rodgers. To say Rivers had a stud Defense with the defense Big Ben has won super bowls with is a bit hilarious, considering his first SB appearance he payed pretty poorly. Rivers is getting underrated because of how poorly his team is playing, but dont be surprised to see him bring this team back from the dead to push for winning that division.


      Originally posted by WMD
      Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
      Originally posted by gpngc
      I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by gpngc View Post
        The Roethlisberger argument can be made with a straight face because of the winning, but if you logically think about all the factors in evaluating the two players, Rivers is clearly better.

        Big Ben does have two Super Bowls - I'm not knocking him at all, he's a fine QB (although he played terribly in the first one). But Rivers never had the defense, running game, and just overall Pittsburgh awesomeness helping him.
        I love both players and I think both are a bit underrated.

        To play devils advocate here, Big Ben was in his second season when he played like dog **** against Seattle. Philip Rivers was sitting on the bench during his second season. Most QBs are usually just trying to take a step forward in year 2. Granted, Big Ben did choke and by his own admission, he played poorly because of nerves. We can also see this evidence by his annihilation of Denver in the Championship game where he had one of the best games of his career. He was also great against the Colts in the divisional playoffs (in a game much closer than it should have been due to a terrible call over ruling a clear INT by Polamlu) and against Cincinnati in the wild card game. That was one of the toughest schedules any QB has seen in the playoffs. His abysmal Super Bowl performance disguises some great QB play for a guy only in his second season. His play in the 2005 playoffs were still better than his play in the 2008 playoffs despite the atrocious SB performance. 2008 gave him his career defining drive and his signature play. That game winning drive was legendary stuff.

        His second SB win was an MVP caliber game. Terrible play calling (giving the ball to the most overrated RB of the 00s, Willie Parker) made for a stagnate second and third QTs that allowed Arizona to get back in the game. They had Big Ben throw the ball all over the field and dominate the first half, then they thought they would be able to sit on it and play defense. That running game was terrible, and if you recall, their pass protection was atrocious that season (sacked 54 times in 19 games). Big Ben had that team on his back and has no business winning in the playoffs, let alone winning the Super Bowl. That was one of the worst offensive lines to ever win a Super Bowl. The great Steeler's defense didn't show up in that game either.

        With Roethlisberger there is a lot of misconception that he is nothing more than a game manager that relies solely on his perennially great running game and defense. Simply not true. I said it when it happened and I'll say it again... no other QB could win the Super Bowl behind that offensive in 2008. He made more plays and kept more plays alive that it was simply astonishing. That was not a great team. Missing the playoffs the following season was not shocking.

        In the 2008 playoffs, Philip Rivers and Big Ben went head-to-head, and Rivers only threw for 308 yards and 3 TDs against the great Steelers defense. This was one week after Rivers upset Peyton Manning. This was the great 8-8 team that started the season 4-8 and had an injured LT (who wasn't nearly as explosive as he is this year, let alone prior to that) and a hobbled Antonio Gates (who still played out of his mind) in the playoffs. He did lead a game tying drive to force OT where it was mostly all Sproles against IND. I thought that was an MVP caliber season for Rivers (he actually put up better numbers across the board than Manning other than in the win column). That was a below average team with a ton of holes. This was Rivers 3rd season a starter. So when Rivers just started peeking, he was surrounded by a declining, aging and underachieving team.

        2007, he had a better team that finished 11-5, had a really strong finish to the regular season, but tore his ACL (in his plant leg) in his great performance against the defending champion Colts. Once again, LT was garbage and hardly played in the AFC Championship game after going down early with a knee injury against NE. That was, once again, with a hobbled Antonio Gates that had a dislocated toe where he was in and out of the lineup throughout the playoffs. That loss was to the undefeated New England Patriots. Although Rivers has been very pedestrian in the playoffs, he has not had the same talent around him as he's had during the regular season, especially on offense; mostly from injuries to key players.

        Here are there stats for each year of each player.

        Ben Roethlisberger

        2009 - 15 Games - 4,328 yards, 66.6%, 8.6 AVG., 288.5 Yards/G, 26 TDs, 12 INTs, 100.5 QB rating
        * Missed playoffs (9 wins, 7 Losses)

        2008 - 16 Games - 3,301 yards, 59.9%, 7.0 AVG., 206.3 Yards/G, 17 TDs, 15 INTs, 80.1 QB rating
        * Playoffs - (3-0) Won Super Bowl - 692 yards, 60.7%, 7.8 AVG. 3 TDs, 1 INT, 91.6 QB rating

        2007 - 15 Games - 3,154 yards, 65.3%, 7.8 AVG., 210.3 Yards/G, 32 TDs, 11 INTs, 104.1 QB rating
        * Playoffs - (0-1) - 337 yards, 60.7%, 8.0 AVG. 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 79.2 QB rating

        2006 - 15 Games - 3,513 yards, 59.7%, 7.5 AVG., 234.2 Yards/G, 18 TDs, 23 INTs, 75.4 QB rating
        * Missed playoffs (8 wins, 8 Losses)

        2005 - 12 Games - 2,385 yards, 62.7%, 8.9 AVG., 198.8 Yards/G, 17 TDs, 9 INTs, 98.6 QB rating
        * Playoffs - (4-0) Won Super Bowl - 803 yards, 60.7%, 8.6 AVG. 7 TDs, 3 INTs, 101.7 QB rating

        2004 - 14 Games - 2,621 yards, 66.4%, 8.9 AVG., 187.2 Yards/G, 17 TDs, 11 INTs, 98.1 QB rating
        * Playoffs - (1-1) - 407 yards, 57.4%, 7.5 AVG. 3 TDs, 5 INTs, 61.3 QB rating


        Philip Rivers

        2009 - 16 Games - 4,254 yards, 65%, 8.8 AVG., 265.9 Yards/G, 28 TDs, 9 INTs, 104.4 QB rating
        * Playoffs - (0-1) - 298 yards, 67.5%, 7.5 AVG. 1 TD, 2 INTs, 76.9 QB rating

        2008 - 16 Games - 4,009 yards, 65.3%, 8.4 AVG., 250.6 Yards/G, 34 TDs, 11 INTs, 105.5 QB rating
        * Playoffs - (1-1) - 525 yards, 57.7%, 7.4 AVG. 3 TDs, 2 INTs, 83.4 QB rating

        2007 - 16 Games - 3,152 yards, 60.2%, 8.4 AVG., 197.0 Yards/G, 21 TDs, 15 INTs, 82.4 QB rating
        * Playoffs - (2-1) - 576 yards, 60.5%, 8.9 AVG. 4 TDs, 4 INTs, 85.8 QB rating

        2006 - 16 Games - 3,388 yards, 60.2%, 7.4 AVG., 211.8 Yards/G, 22 TDs, 9 INTs, 92.0 QB rating
        * Playoffs - (0-1) - 230 yards, 43.8%, 7.2 AVG. 0 TDs, 1 INT, 55.5 QB rating


        Right now, I would say Rivers and Rodges have the most potential among QBs under 30, but Ben Roethlisberger is still the best QB under 30. He's done way too much, has played great in big games, has more comeback wins than every other QB not named Peyton Manning since he entered the league and has 2 rings. I know he's not on pace for 5,000 yards passing and 40 TDs like Rivers is this year, but he has had a pretty impressive start to his career. Minus some occasional raping and motorcycle accidents that have ****** him up, he been stellar. Off field issues have caused great inconsistency on a yearly basis. Rivers has been Peyton Manning-like consistent over the last 2 1/2 years.
        Originally posted by Scott Wright
        I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
        Originally posted by PossibleCabbage
        I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
        Originally posted by bearsfan_51
        iamcandian lives in a cabin in the Yukon Territory and writes letters to railroad barons about the price of hard tack.
        Originally posted by GatorsBullsFan
        I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
        Originally posted by GoRavens
        Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.

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        • #49
          all Big Ben did was beat "The worst playoff team in NFL history"

          ******* cris collinsworth

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Jvig43 View Post
            Rivers > Big Ben >>> Rodgers. To say Rivers had a stud Defense with the defense Big Ben has won super bowls with is a bit hilarious, considering his first SB appearance he payed pretty poorly. Rivers is getting underrated because of how poorly his team is playing, but dont be surprised to see him bring this team back from the dead to push for winning that division.
            see i think that like rivers and ben, rodgers runs a masterful offense....i think hes being a bit underrated right now cause of the unfortunate year hes had losing his entire running game and his favorite receiver.

            sure steelers d>chargers d, but LT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>parker
            E]

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            • #51
              And when the run game is back and we get most of our receivers back it'll be another reason to say he's not amazing. Haters gonna hate.


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              • #52
                Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
                I don't buy either argument. Rodgers has a bunch of potential, but has largely failed to have the kind of success we all expected him to have this year. I think he'll be a great QB down the road, but I couldn't even come close to calling him better than Rivers right now.

                And while Roethlisberger has the superbowl rings, Rivers is clearly the better regular season quarterback. Clearly.
                Who gives a ****?

                You make your name in the postseason as a qb. And Ben is clearly the superior post season qb.

                Originally posted by gpngc View Post
                The Roethlisberger argument can be made with a straight face because of the winning, but if you logically think about all the factors in evaluating the two players, Rivers is clearly better.

                Big Ben does have two Super Bowls - I'm not knocking him at all, he's a fine QB (although he played terribly in the first one). But Rivers never had the defense, running game, and just overall Pittsburgh awesomeness helping him.
                Oh revisionist history. How I love thee.

                Rivers had what was considered the most talented team in the league for a 3 year stretch and underperformed with them every time. Last year, he had the best team in the AFC and was 1 and done in the playoffs.

                I think Rivers is a great qb, but he's severely overrated on this forum. Until he does something worth a crap in the playoffs, he's nothing more than this generation's Dan Fouts to me.

                The sad thing is, I'm gonna come off as a hater in this post, but it just annoys me how fantasy football has effected our perceptions of quarterbacks.

                And btw, calling him Fouts is not an insult. Fouts was a HOFer.

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                • #53
                  I can recall a certain kicker who i will blame on the 1 and our last playoff run. And the other play off run when he played through with no LT or Gates and a torn ACL, and ****** ******* playcalls.


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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by shylo3716 View Post
                    Is it just me or does anyone else hates Rivers arm?

                    Aside from his weird chicken wing side arm, he clearly does not have any zip on any of his passes and that kills me. I give him all the credit for having the accuracy but he just does not wow me with his strength. I wonder what everyone else thinks about this.
                    It's you. In fact, the only thing I don't hate about Rivers is his arm. I hate his douchey face, his wonky delivery, his southern boy drawl, his big yappin' mouth and more, but I don't hate his arm.

                    Sig img shamelessly stolen from teh interwebs

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                    • #55
                      Whatever the generation, what ultimately separates QBs is winning the Lombardi, or at least get to a SB.
                      Rivers needs to really make a deep run in the playoffs to be more than just a talented, statistically dominant regular season QB.

                      History tends to blur over guys like Rivers, but remembers guys like Roethlisberger, Brees and Brady forever, even if Rivers is the 'equal' or 'better' QB.

                      The numbers Rivers puts up per season do remind me of Marino, however. The Bolts need to find a way to get over the hump, and the sooner Norval is no longer the HC, the sooner SD wins a SB.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                        Who gives a ****?

                        You make your name in the postseason as a qb. And Ben is clearly the superior post season qb.
                        Ben also clearly had the superior teams and always had to throw less than Rivers has in the playoffs. I understand why someone would pick Ben as being the more accomplished QB to this point, but it's hard to call someone with a 64 QB rating in the Superbowl an amazing postseason QB, and if I had to pick between the two, I would pick Rivers.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                          Who gives a ****?

                          You make your name in the postseason as a qb. And Ben is clearly the superior post season qb.



                          Oh revisionist history. How I love thee.

                          Rivers had what was considered the most talented team in the league for a 3 year stretch and underperformed with them every time. Last year, he had the best team in the AFC and was 1 and done in the playoffs.

                          I think Rivers is a great qb, but he's severely overrated on this forum. Until he does something worth a crap in the playoffs, he's nothing more than this generation's Dan Fouts to me.

                          The sad thing is, I'm gonna come off as a hater in this post, but it just annoys me how fantasy football has effected our perceptions of quarterbacks.

                          And btw, calling him Fouts is not an insult. Fouts was a HOFer.
                          I don't even know where to start with this thread but bashing revisionist history and then saying Rivers hasn't done anything in the playoffs is extremely hypocritical.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Paranoidmoonduck View Post
                            Um, huh? Are you being serious?
                            This is exactly what I thought when I read that comment.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                              Who gives a ****?

                              You make your name in the postseason as a qb. And Ben is clearly the superior post season qb.



                              Oh revisionist history. How I love thee.

                              Rivers had what was considered the most talented team in the league for a 3 year stretch and underperformed with them every time. Last year, he had the best team in the AFC and was 1 and done in the playoffs.

                              I think Rivers is a great qb, but he's severely overrated on this forum. Until he does something worth a crap in the playoffs, he's nothing more than this generation's Dan Fouts to me.

                              The sad thing is, I'm gonna come off as a hater in this post, but it just annoys me how fantasy football has effected our perceptions of quarterbacks.

                              And btw, calling him Fouts is not an insult. Fouts was a HOFer.
                              Rivers has 3 playoff wins to his credit (2008 Indy win he lead not one but two game winning drives)... shouldn't that qualify as something?

                              And lets be honest - outside of 2006, the defense has been average at best.
                              aka KGB Chicken

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by San Diego Chicken View Post
                                Rivers has 3 playoff wins to his credit (2008 Indy win he lead not one but two game winning drives)... shouldn't that qualify as something?

                                And lets be honest - outside of 2006, the defense has been average at best.
                                All truths.

                                And he's not even mentioning how many playoff games Rivers gave them a chance to win but were blown because Kaeding is awful in the clutch.

                                If you watch Big Ben every week and Rivers every week I don't see how you can possibly come to the conclusion that Ben is better than Rivers.

                                ??????????
                                "I'm Ko Simpson!"

                                - Ko Simpson

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