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While the call for the blow to the head of Manning is legit.

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  • #16
    It's important to make a distinction, are you debating precedent or the play in question? The rule they write, I would agree that it is a delicate issue how it is interpreted and enforced. However, on the play that happened, I saw incidental contact that wasn't even close to causing injury.

    Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
    Go watch some old Deacon Jones footage and then come back to me and tell me you feel the same way.
    Well first Deacon Jones played in the 70s, and he was a beast, probably the greatest DE of all time. A lot of film on him is going to involve illegal hits under modern rules. But he couldn't have hurt anybody by bringing his arm down on somebody's head while his feet were giving out underneath him. Go back and watch the play - in the position he was in, the defender couldn't generate any kind of damaging power. He didn't even make a fist IIRC. Whatever force hit Manning's head was a fraction of what players endure when they hit the ground or a shoulder pad.

    Thanks to BK for the sig

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    • #17
      Originally posted by bsaza2358 View Post
      If you're calling the blow to the head, make it a specific penalty with a specific yardage. Don't make it a 15 yard unless it's roughing. Kind of like the old rule with 5 yard and 15 yard facemasks...
      I think it should depend on what kind of hit it is. If the pass rusher is trying to swat the ball and ends up slapping the quarterback in the head, then that should be 5 yards. If he's leading with the helmet and smacks the quarterback in the chin, then that should be 15 yards.

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      • #18
        Interpretation of the rule was correct. I think we need to debate whether or not the current implementation is the proper enforcement for infractions such as what we saw yesterday. I do not believe that minor contact to the helmet warrants 15 yards and a first as roughing the QB. I also do not believe that similar contact to any other player should be a personal foul/15 yards and a first.



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        • #19
          Originally posted by MidwayMonster31 View Post
          I think it should depend on what kind of hit it is. If the pass rusher is trying to swat the ball and ends up slapping the quarterback in the head, then that should be 5 yards. If he's leading with the helmet and smacks the quarterback in the chin, then that should be 15 yards.
          Leading with the helmet is a personal foul already. I don't thank anyone would debate anything related to that.



          I am "America's Poster"... http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/for...9&postcount=25

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          • #20
            The intent of the rule is great. But, like with most NFL rules, the application of it is a complete abortion.

            They really, really, really need to do an extensive review and possible overhaul of the rulebook this offseason, especially if the competition committee is sitting with their thumbs up their asses waiting for a new CBA to pass.

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            • #21
              The NFL is trying to protect its stars. QB's are generally the biggest stars. That's why they changed the rules after the unlucky hit knocked Brady out. It hurts the product on the field. The Eagles won that game by 9, but they had a chance to lose it because of a really unfortunate execution of a poorly written and taught rule.



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              • #22
                I don't like the rule, but according the the rule the call was correct. I also don't like PI being marked at the spot of the foul, but that's the way it is.
                "If everyone liked the same thing everyone would be after your grandmother."

                My Grandfather

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                • #23
                  The intent of the rule is good, but the severity of the penalty for plays like that is way too high. T. Cole was trying to strip the ball from Manning while being blocked, Manning holds the ball high...how else is he supposed to strip it? Underhand?

                  They need to differentiate what is a personal foul and what is not. I don't think the 1st down should be given on an incidental contact like that either. The call almost cost the Eagles the game, and Peyton's head barely moved at all. If he was clubed that would be a different story and I dont think we would be having this debate.

                  Originally posted by BeansDooma
                  who retires first: brett favre or aaron rodgers?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by umphrey View Post
                    Are you serious? The defender was trying to strip the ball while getting knocked around by an offensive tackle. Also the goal is exactly to hit the quarterback to confuse him, make him nervous, etc. You're right, the goal isn't to knock him out like a prize fighter, but that wasn't even close to what happened. Are you suggesting they should let the quarterback sit comfortable in space so he doesn't lose focus? That isn't football.

                    The QB is trying to pass, offensive tackles are trying to block, running backs are trying to run, receivers are trying to catch. You don't stop them with words and scary gestures. You hit them, or you call it a different sport.
                    Yet DEs can't headslap OTs.
                    Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

                    - Genius

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bsaza2358 View Post
                      The refs made the right call based on the rule, but I don't love the rule. That kind of more incidental contact happens on a lot of plays without being called. Actually, if the ref position was the way it was in 2009, they might not have seen it, and the play stands...
                      It was more than incidental, it AFFECTED THE PLAY, or could have. That's why it has to be called. Now, when a QB has THROWN the ball and there is come followthrough by the defender that happens to graze the helmet, that is incidental.
                      Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

                      - Genius

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                      • #26
                        And what I started off saying what that it isn't JUST about injury, it's about how that action affects a football play. He didn't just "brush" his helmet like so many people are saying, he actually moved the QB's head forward which could affect the play being made. If this allowed, then instead of trying to go for the strip from th opposite side, people would just pop the QB in the back of the head.


                        Originally posted by umphrey View Post
                        It's important to make a distinction, are you debating precedent or the play in question? The rule they write, I would agree that it is a delicate issue how it is interpreted and enforced. However, on the play that happened, I saw incidental contact that wasn't even close to causing injury.



                        Well first Deacon Jones played in the 70s, and he was a beast, probably the greatest DE of all time. A lot of film on him is going to involve illegal hits under modern rules. But he couldn't have hurt anybody by bringing his arm down on somebody's head while his feet were giving out underneath him. Go back and watch the play - in the position he was in, the defender couldn't generate any kind of damaging power. He didn't even make a fist IIRC. Whatever force hit Manning's head was a fraction of what players endure when they hit the ground or a shoulder pad.
                        Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

                        - Genius

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                        • #27
                          Any knocking into the QB affects his play. That is the purpose of a pass rush, to affect the QB, the best way is to strip or sack him.

                          No defender would go to tap the head. It doesn't stop the QB, he will step up or if the DE is being pushed by a linemen just stand and throw.

                          A strip is huge, a sack is really big, taping the helmet barely makes a difference. Any DE went for it would get cut.
                          Last edited by Bucs_Rule; 11-08-2010, 01:18 PM.

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                          • #28
                            I understand the rule and don't pretend to know the perfect solution, but the severity of the penalty was not commensurate with the infraction. Cole brushed Manning's helmet. It didn't deserve a 15 yard penalty. Good call, bad overall rule.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Bucs_Rule View Post
                              Any knocking into the QB affects his play. That is the purpose of a pass rush, to affect the QB, the best way is to strip or sack him.

                              No defender would go to tap the head. It doesn't stop the QB, he will step up or if the DE is being pushed by a linemen just stand and throw.

                              A strip is huge, a sack is really big, taping the helmet barely makes a difference. Any DE went for it would get cut.
                              And if a strip or a sack is not possible, why would a defender NOT do the next best thing and punch the QB in the head if there was no rule preventing it?
                              Kaepernick is this years pat white. Thin, gimmick offense and doesn't possess an nfl arm. The ncaa constantly regurgitates clones of past players and amazingly enough, tricks some people into thinking they're better than their cloned half. Kaepernick was a complete waste of a senior bowl qb spot. A better qb will come from the east/west shrine or whatever they're calling it now...count on it

                              - Genius

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                              • #30
                                I doubt the league would introduce an incidental contact penalty. The whole reason they got rid of the 5 yard facemask was to make it so the refs didn't have to make that sort of subjective call.

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