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  • hockey619
    started a topic Contenders and Pretenders/ Truths

    Contenders and Pretenders/ Truths

    The Patriots, Jets, Falcons, and Eagles are contenders
    I think these are the teams that could win the Super Bowl. I dont think anyone else could beat one of these teams in the playoffs...

    Lurking: Steelers, Bears, Packers, Giants, San Diego, Ravens
    Except maybe one of these guys. All these guys are good but have some serious weaknesses. I think the Bears and their Oline is the biggest weakness among this group, but theyve also beaten the Eagles and the Packers but got beat up by the Giants. They all play good defense but the Packers cant run, the Bears can block, and the Giants have some issues with their punting game and turnovers, the Chargers are doing their normal thing of good late in the year but i dont think they could go to ny or ne and win a game, not built for it so idk if i can take them seriously. The Steelers: i like them but they got absolutely clocked by the Pats and didnt look like they belonged in that game, then were a drop away from losing to the Bills, a team they have to beat. So we'll see, but theyre built to win in the playoffs...The Ravens, idk, idk if i trust Flacco in a big game in the playoffs, they need to start running a lot more and prove the D can get it done a little more before im buying in.

    The Cowboys, Vikings, Bills, Browns, and Rams are spoilers
    Bad teams that could screw up some teams shot at the playoffs because they have so much fight. Bills almost threw a screw ball into the Steelers playoff chances, Browns already beat the Pats, these teams are just not to be overlooked.

    The 'Shut off the tv they suck so bad' teams: Cards, 9ers, Bengals
    really, they suck.

    Pretenders: Colts, Jags, whoever comes out of the NFC west, Texans (obviously), Titans on their third string QB
    Yeah not feeling the AFC south this year. Jags arent going anywhere i have no faith in Garrard to get it done. Texans D cant stop the pass, no way they can go up north and beat one of the good teams listed before. Titans: Rusty Smith.

    Yeah, the Colts are Pretenders
    Seriously.

    This isnt about Manning like the other thread, this is about the whole team.

    They just suck. This is the worst Colts team we've seen in a decade or more easily. Ive thought this for a few weeks but wanted to see how they handled the two contenders in a row and they didnt handle any of it at all. Peyton has looked off since Clark went down, his ability to play under pressure that hed finally developed over the last couple seasons is vanishing behind that middle school offensive line and hes forcing throws and looking confused for the first time in years. If hes not on his A game this team is a rollover win for most NFL opponents as the Chargers showed.

    The Colts remaining schedule is:

    @Titans
    Jags
    @Raiders
    Titans

    If they split with the Titans (CJ is gunna be pissed after his 5 rush yards so he'll be looking to beast) then I think the Jags game could swing and I dont think they beat the Raiders, they run the ball very well with McFadden and the Colts D is absolutely atrocious trying to stop the run.

    Even if they do make the playoffs (pretty big if), they arent going anywhere this year, they just really arent any good.



    Couple of quick thoughts....

    Well hes definitely not John Wayne...
    Can we PLEASE end the 'Reggie Wayne is an elite weapon' bull****? The dude has been very average to terrible for over a year now, its time everyone else noticed this and not just me. Idc what his numbers say, screw stats theyre worthless, i trust what i see and what i see is he gets no seperation of any kind (weddle is an average safety and he locked him down on that INT). Hes not a number 1, hes not a 'deep threat' with his obvious lack of speed and ability to seperate, his routes have been sloppy this year with a lot of rounded cuts, and hes dropping passes left and right.

    Carson Palmer Sucks
    Hes terrible, he looks like his passion for the game is gone. He needs a change of scenery in the worst way and even then idk i think he might be done. I know i know: 'its the coaching!' 'Rogue recievers!' 'Hes still good its not his fault!' Shut up. He sucks.

    Matt Ryan is Tom Brady 2.0
    I compared them when he was coming out but damn hes a freaking exact replica of the man. I said early in the year that Orton was playing better than Ryan. I was wrong. My bad Halsey.

    Cortland Finnegan looks like a jack***
    Idk much about him, but he looks like such a douche with the hair and smile after that fight. what are you smilin about, your team is losing and you just got thrown around? Just sayin.



    Breaking down the contenders
    The Pats:
    Brady? Check. Belly? Check. Good defense thats getting better, solid efficient offense with Brady at the healm, and my boy Woodhead on the field sometimes, they look like theyre gunna be a very tough team to beat in January.

    The Jets: I love this team. Great D that can do it all and do it well, powerful offense and QB whos played well when hes needed to and did last year in the playoffs too. If Sanchez keeps it together theyre the team to beat.

    The Falcons: A D thats just good enough with a run the ball philosophy and a Qb who can come through when they need it. Team to beat in the NFC. I wasnt on board until yesterday but its clear im late to the show and they deserve the credit.

    The Eagles: Theyre good, but if they have to head to chicago or GB in January they could be in trouble. If theyre playing indoor on the turf in say Atlanta? watch out theyve got some serious speed. The Falcons are great at home, the eagles are built to play indoors much more than to power run in the outside and cold, thatd be a hell of a game.

    My rankings:
    Jets
    Pats/Falcons

    Eagles

    Sorry for the long*** post.
    Last edited by hockey619; 11-29-2010, 11:33 AM.

  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
    The Ravens are at a distinct disadvantage offensively though. Because clearly Cam Cameron thinks since they have a first round QB then they need to throw the ball 70% of the time instead of handing it off to their beast of a RB.
    I think this is my favorite stupid myth of the 2010 season. The Ravens are fifth in the NFL in rush attempts and have MORE rush attempts per game than they did last season.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hines
    replied
    As of now, I would have the Steelers as lurking, but when late December rolls around, I'd put them as contenders. 1) Aaron Smith comes back 2) Big Ben and 3) the Steelers know how to win in the playoffs no matter where they play. The OL arguement will come up and it's a valid one, but their OL has always sucked since most of 2006 and they still continue to be a winning football team despite their glaring weaknesses. Will it continue? I have no clue, but history does repeat itself.

    Leave a comment:


  • LonghornsLegend
    replied
    Originally posted by tjsunstein View Post
    I'm a firm believer that no one has beat the Packers this year but themselves. Am I being a homer here? I don't know, maybe? But, has anyone non biased watched every Packers' loss?

    Sure, you could say that about every team and partially get away with it but having watched every Green Bay game this year, it's pretty obvious. We don't run the ball with our power back on short downs. We abandon our run game too quickly and force it in the play call to try to set something up down the line. Everything seemed out of place in Atlanta. Halfway through the second quarter, I'm sure every Packers' fan had the same feeling, and it wasn't a good one. We see how we play when we lose and it shows early and often.

    It's the running game. Rodgers had to do everything himself vs ATL, and seeing as how Finley is out now too it's like the red zone plays inside the 5 are all QB sneaks or QB draws. No RB or TE to get an easy conversion or get an easy 1st down.


    I'd have Green Bay right up there if not for that, I don't know why Thompson wasn't more aggressive in finding a RB. Starks isn't ready yet, and while Lynch isn't a world beater he's an upgrade which I think in paying a 3rd or 4th rounder was worth it for a shot at winning the Super Bowl.


    I mean in the Jamaal Charles thread they were just showing how you took Brian Brohm and Pat Lee all before the middle of the 3rd round. I don't think a proven guy who fits exactly what you need was a bad risk to take.

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  • killxswitch
    replied
    Reggie Wayne is basically a slower, slightly tougher version of Marvin Harrison. Harrison had elite speed but didn't offer anything after the catch if any defenders were near. And he disappeared in the playoffs way worse than Wayne. Reggie has at least had OK games and a few great ones. I'd have to check but I'm pretty sure Harrison has never had a single impact game in the post season. When there are other weapons on the field with him, or when there is time for the play to develop and he can gain separation he can do some great things but no, he is not on the same level as the bigger, stronger WRs that can create on their own.

    My biggest concern with him is the drops this year. He has dropped some seriously easy passes. He and Manning have had a hard enough time making plays as it is so when he gets the easy ones he needs to bring them in.

    I can't argue with the Colts being soft but the poor play this year is absolutely a product of injuries. That isn't the only factor, but it is a big one.

    Leave a comment:


  • hockey619
    replied
    Originally posted by tjsunstein View Post
    I'm a firm believer that no one has beat the Packers this year but themselves. Am I being a homer here? I don't know, maybe? But, has anyone non biased watched every Packers' loss?

    Sure, you could say that about every team and partially get away with it but having watched every Green Bay game this year, it's pretty obvious. We don't run the ball with our power back on short downs. We abandon our run game too quickly and force it in the play call to try to set something up down the line. Everything seemed out of place in Atlanta. Halfway through the second quarter, I'm sure every Packers' fan had the same feeling, and it wasn't a good one. We see how we play when we lose and it shows early and often.
    The Packers big problem is they cant run the ball. I love Rodgers, i think hes elite, all the tools in the world just occassionally holds onto the ball too long. The defense is good with a slightly shakey secondary at times but if Clay can be a beast in the pass rush that helps a lot. I thought they shouldve won in all their losses but the lack of a run game is troubling as it allows teams to let their pass rushers loose like peppers when they played chicago. Theyd be in the top bracket too if they didnt keep finding ways to lose games. maybe their luck will change we shall see.

    Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
    The Ravens are at a distinct disadvantage offensively though. Because clearly Cam Cameron thinks since they have a first round QB then they need to throw the ball 70% of the time instead of handing it off to their beast of a RB.
    This is why its hard to take them seriously. Idk about flacco, not a huge fan, but either way they have the potential for a very good running game but they never use it and i dont know why its rediculous. Theyre built to be a good playoff team with the run game and if the D holds up, but i wonder if cameron sabotages them, itd be a shame.

    Originally posted by BigBanger View Post
    I've never considered Reggie Wayne a top 5 WR... EVER. He runs the same 5 routes all day long and gets punked in the playoffs. He's a weak, soft player that has inflated stats due to a spread system and one of the all-time great QBs to ever play. That QB can get Blair White in the end zone 3 times in 2 weeks and make a terrible player like Pierre "Brick Hands" Garcon a name most fans know. Wayne's still a good player and he still runs good routes, but he's nothing special. Never has been. Just benefited from a perfect scheme and a great QB. He's nowhere close to the same kind of player Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson are, yet he has similar stats (in some cases even better stats) than the two of them. He's overrated, but it's not like this is his first year where he's been bullied or shutdown from time-to-time.
    Agreed with all of the above. I never though of him as a special guy or someone that was a legit number one. When he has a number one guy to help create space for him hes solid as a number 2 but everyone talks him up as some great weapon and hes just not, hes living off an undeserved reputation as a great receiver when he never was. Great post though.

    Leave a comment:


  • AntoinCD
    replied
    Originally posted by J-Mike88 View Post
    Interesting tidbit:
    The Packers haven't lose a game in the past 12 months other than on the last play of the game, or with less than 15 seconds left in the game.

    In other words, we either whip a team, or play them close.... and a bunch of times we have that one fumble or special teams breakdown that costs us the game. Or the FG off the post (@ Washington), or the strange penalty call that has never been called before (Miami).

    We can blow teams out (Minnesota, Dallas, Buffalo), shut teams out (Jets), but we also are good at losing by 3 points at the last second.

    We outplayed the Bears, Redskins, and Falcons in almost every phase of the game. But found ways to put one in the L column anyway.

    Is that a trend?
    Or another thing?
    I'd say it's a worrying trend. The sign of a good team is not making the critical mistake and winning the close ones. I think a lot has to be put down to the lack of running game Green Bay has. For example, Rodgers fumble at the weekend

    Leave a comment:


  • J-Mike88
    replied
    Interesting tidbit:
    The Packers haven't lose a game in the past 12 months other than on the last play of the game, or with less than 15 seconds left in the game.

    In other words, we either whip a team, or play them close.... and a bunch of times we have that one fumble or special teams breakdown that costs us the game. Or the FG off the post (@ Washington), or the strange penalty call that has never been called before (Miami).

    We can blow teams out (Minnesota, Dallas, Buffalo), shut teams out (Jets), but we also are good at losing by 3 points at the last second.

    We outplayed the Bears, Redskins, and Falcons in almost every phase of the game. But found ways to put one in the L column anyway.

    Is that a trend?
    Or another thing?

    Leave a comment:


  • Gay Ork Wang
    replied
    i doubt there are a lot of losses out there where the losing team didnt make mistakes...

    Leave a comment:


  • Brent
    replied
    Originally posted by tjsunstein View Post
    But, has anyone non biased watched every Packers' loss?
    I thought you guys had the Atlanta game. At least until the Rodgers fumble.

    Leave a comment:


  • wicket
    replied
    Originally posted by hockey619 View Post
    DAMNIT, ****!!!

    i forgot to put them in the thing ugh i knew i forgot someone:
    Idk if i like them quite yet, they have no running game and i think the falcons are a much more complete team I cant imagine them beating them under any circumstances really. I dont think they could play with the jets or pats and maybe hang with the eagles (who i think are the lower end of elite teams) in the playoffs.

    They may make some noise (definitely lurking, my bad) but i dont see it. No run game, gunna have to go into atlanta or chicago/GB and theyre not built to play in a game like that. They might take down the Eagles, but the eagles have the better d and run game and better passing game at this point.
    Well my reasoning is easy. We almost beat the falcons when playing like crap. Brees is getting back to his usual self slowly but surely. Bush and Thomas are coming back from injury and Ivory is improving each and every game so the running game will pick up and we field the 6th ranked defense dispite a ton of injuries. The thing that kills us that outside of playing us Atlanta pretty much plays noone else anymore so even when we win out we will prolly still get the wild card. (dayum thats gonna blow getting the WC with 13 wins). However I really am not all that worried about anyone and think we can win against anyone as long as the offense plays up to potential.

    In principle this years team is better than last years as the offense is just the same offense and the defense has made decent strides.

    Leave a comment:


  • Caddy
    replied
    How can the Saints not be lurking? I'd be tempted to have them as contenders. As far as I'm concerned they are my pick from the NFC to make the Superbowl. Drew Brees + Top defense = win!

    Leave a comment:


  • AntoinCD
    replied
    Reggie Wayne does most things well. He runs good routes, has good hands, shields defenders with his body, recognises coverages etc. However he lacks top end speed or strength and offers nothing after the catch. This is why he should never have been considered an elite WR. Extremely solid and probably top 10 in the league a few years ago but always a little overrated IMO

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  • Gay Ork Wang
    replied
    To be fair, his body control and hands were amazing the last 2 years, just didnt get as much seperation as you would like

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  • BigBanger
    replied
    I've never considered Reggie Wayne a top 5 WR... EVER. He runs the same 5 routes all day long and gets punked in the playoffs. He's a weak, soft player that has inflated stats due to a spread system and one of the all-time great QBs to ever play. That QB can get Blair White in the end zone 3 times in 2 weeks and make a terrible player like Pierre "Brick Hands" Garcon a name most fans know. Wayne's still a good player and he still runs good routes, but he's nothing special. Never has been. Just benefited from a perfect scheme and a great QB. He's nowhere close to the same kind of player Andre Johnson or Calvin Johnson are, yet he has similar stats (in some cases even better stats) than the two of them. He's overrated, but it's not like this is his first year where he's been bullied or shutdown from time-to-time.

    Leave a comment:

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