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Is this unnecessary roughness?

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  • NFL rule 12, Article 3, Section 1(a) defines unsportsmanlike conduct, among other things, as: "Throwing a punch, or a forearm, or kicking at an opponent even though no contact is made."

    So if you can be penalized for throwing a forearm shiver that doesn't make contact with a player, why even start the process? Sunday, Suh threw his forearm at Cutler. It just didn't make first contact. Who knows what Suh's mindset at the time was. But based on NFL rules, nothing good can ever come by approaching a player the way Suh did. That's why I think the NFL fined Suh -- even a forearm whiff is considered unsportsmanlike conduct under its rules. And as we know, Suh is a multiple offender on unnecessary roughness/unsportsmanlike conduct penalties this season. He's been called for four penalties that carry 15-yard markoffs this season.
    This makes the fine a lot more understandable. hochuli therefore explained it wrong but he was fined for unsportsmanlike conduct
    Last edited by Gay Ork Wang; 12-09-2010, 10:06 AM.

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    • I don't think he threw the forearm. He hand extended forwards. If your going with your forearm you have to turn your arm, he didn't do that before or after contact was made.

      It was just a whack in the back of his head.

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      • If there was contact it looks light and incidental to me. It just looks like he's shoving Cutler down. I bet now he wishes he's just tackled him like normal now.

        Well with his contract he probably doesn't care that much.

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        • Originally posted by Bucs_Rule View Post
          I don't think he threw the forearm. He hand extended forwards. If your going with your forearm you have to turn your arm, he didn't do that before or after contact was made.

          It was just a whack in the back of his head.
          well he had his forearm up first, which isnt a normal motion when you want to shove someone, at least when i do i dont pull the ellbow as high as he did. I mean no one knows what his intention was, i highly doubt that he wanted to throw a forearm but that looks at least like a better explanation for the fine than the unnecessary roughness

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          • I love how the announcers parallel the more moronic posters here. When they saw it in real-time, it was all "Whoa, Suh forearmed him to the back of the head! Unnecessary roughness!" Then they saw it in slo-mo and sounded offended that Suh was flagged for exactly what they thought they saw, too. Damn those refs and their weak, non-slo-mo, non-zooming eyesight!

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            • Serious question Monomach. Should refs be held to the standard of what viewers see at home in real-time from one camera angle? Should the announcers or home viewer's initial reaction be criteria on which to judge an on-field NFL referee?

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              • Originally posted by killxswitch View Post
                Serious question Monomach. Should refs be held to the standard of what viewers see at home in real-time from one camera angle? Should the announcers or home viewer's initial reaction be criteria on which to judge an on-field NFL referee?
                Yes, refs should be held to the standard of what everyone else sees in real time at one angle.

                ...because their eyes and brains are human. They see in real-time and at one angle, the same as us.

                To suggest that they be held to a superhuman standard is pretty much the pinnacle of dumbassery.

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                • Originally posted by killxswitch View Post
                  Serious question Monomach. Should refs be held to the standard of what viewers see at home in real-time from one camera angle? Should the announcers or home viewer's initial reaction be criteria on which to judge an on-field NFL referee?
                  noted, ill quickly learn how to look at something with 2 angles at the same time and ill become the best ref ever.

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                  • Well, to be fair, the refs shouldn't be held to the standard of what everyone sees in real time on TV. It's a completely different view than what they see on the field.

                    That said, it should be expected that on every single play, refs are going to see some things we don't see and not see some things we do see. No one has any idea what the refs on this particular play saw, I don't care what angles they show replayed and in slow motion. Unless there is a camera angle showing the view from every single ref's shoulder/hat/eyes, no one can honestly say they would know what the refs saw.

                    Back to the point, refs should be held to the standard that what they see in real time on the field is what should be called. More often then not, they make the right calls (or non calls) and should be given the benefit of the doubt. Now, you can argue whether or not the rule is bad and certainly when a bad call or non call is made it will demand more attention, but you can't look at all these replays and say the ref should have made the correct calls right away on every play. It doesn't work like that.

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                    • Is it still okay to push quarterbacks out of bounds or do defensive players have to politely ask them to leave the field of play?

                      BTW, when are running backs going to get called for inititating contact with their helmets? Time after time you see running backs drop the head to make contact with the defender and are never called for it. Are defensive players not susceptible to injuries from helmets? (No, I am not advocating for this, just wonder why only offensive skill position guys are being protected by these fines and penalties)

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                      • They see in real-time and at one angle, the same as us.
                        Only if they are doing a god horrible job. If they are seeing 1 angle it means the other 6 refs are doing nothing. Hochuli was blatantly wrong here, one of his crew should have seen that was a push, I still don't see how anyone saw anything else, that was a shove in real time, a shove in slow mo and a shove in fast forward.

                        Not sure if the NFL has a rule similar to this but NCAA rule has specific rules whereby contact to helmet by arm or hand is perfectly fine. It would seem logical that there is such a rule, otherwise any contact above the head on a RB would be illegal.

                        No player shall continuously contact an opponent’s helmet (including
                        the face mask) with hand(s) or arm(s) (Exception: By or against the ball
                        carrier).
                        This play was an an aggressive shove by a player who is considerably bigger and stronger and had momentum assist him further. The play is the same sort of thing as you will see numerous times on a weekend. Hell Josh Freeman did the exact same thing, note that his was a personal foul becasue it was out of bounds, not for shoving him.

                        I stand by that shoving a guy is perfectly legal, shoving a guy aggressively is also perfectly illegal. Hochuli has completely whiffed on this call and by the looks of it he then told his crew to piss off I threw a flag and I won't pick it up even though they are telling me I'm wrong.

                        Worst call I've seen this year because it just goes completely against the rules and character of the sport.


                        Props to BK on the sig!

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                        • Originally posted by wogitalia View Post
                          I still don't see how anyone saw anything else, that was a shove in real time, a shove in slow mo and a shove in fast forward.
                          Either you haven't even bothered to watch it before commenting, or you're lying just to stir up ****. EVERYONE, even the announcing crew didn't see it as a shove until the slo-mo replay.

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