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Is it time for the Colts to change the way they do things?

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  • Is it time for the Colts to change the way they do things?

    Should the Colts take a page from the Pats book? For example, not paying Riggie Wayne and going young at WR and using more two TE sets with Tamme and Clark. Using that money to help out the O line and the defense. Having a better all around team for Manning. I see everyone always saying that Manning has had great skill guys around him. Which he has, but while saying that you could also say that he's had some of the most lop sided teams I've ever seen... Teams that can't run the ball, can't stop the run. Some that can't stop the pass or can't block and make Manning get ride of the ball quickly. Would it be best for them to break the mold that they've been using ( Let Manning get you up and have your all world DE's get after the QB when the other team has to pass ) and build a all around better team for Manning? Some will say that there's no way the Colts will be better without Wayne ( Example ) but you could've said the same thing about the Pats with Moss. I know the Colts have won a lot of games with the way they've been doing things for years and some will say if it aint broke than don't fix it. I'm not saying there broke, but not being broke doesn't mean that still can change for the better. What do you guys think?

  • #2
    I understand the concept and the logic behind it however Peyton Manning has at most one five year contract left. Generally to have a complete overhaul for a team you are talking about 2-3 years minimum. I'm not sure Manning would be happy if the Colts decided to rebuild around him in the last few years of his career.


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    • #3
      Eh, the problem really isn't where the money is tied up. It's that they've been terrible at drafting the last few drafts and it's finally catching up to them. It isn't like they've had really talented people leave because they couldn't pay their salaries. I mean other than a few lbers which they slotted 3rd or 4th round picks into and they've performed at a similar level, I can't for the life of me remember them letting anyone go that was influential to their team other than ryan diem.

      Every year people say the same thing about the colts, they need a DT or a OL but they keep drafting skill position players like Donald Brown, who is getting out performed by every Rb on the colt's team, or Gonzales, who can't stay healthy for more than half a season. I feel like if they would have invested some higher round draft picks on players like T. Cody or some bigger bodies, it'd really shore up their run D.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by tuan33 View Post
        Eh, the problem really isn't where the money is tied up. It's that they've been terrible at drafting the last few drafts and it's finally catching up to them. It isn't like they've had really talented people leave because they couldn't pay their salaries. I mean other than a few lbers which they slotted 3rd or 4th round picks into and they've performed at a similar level, I can't for the life of me remember them letting anyone go that was influential to their team other than ryan diem.

        Every year people say the same thing about the colts, they need a DT or a OL but they keep drafting skill position players like Donald Brown, who is getting out performed by every Rb on the colt's team, or Gonzales, who can't stay healthy for more than half a season. I feel like if they would have invested some higher round draft picks on players like T. Cody or some bigger bodies, it'd really shore up their run D.
        I don't know. Rightly or wrongly the Colts defense is based on speed and stopping teams scoring quickly. Their philosophy seems to be that they can stop teams from scoring TDs in the red area and believe Manning and the offense will outscore other teams, thus allowing their defense to play the pass. This is why Freeney and Mathis are so successful. The main problem this year is the offense is not as successful and due to turnovers the defense is put in bad situations too often. It was only a few years ago they broke an NFL record for least amount of TD passes in a season and they would bet that despite losing the time of possession battle they will still score more than opposing offenses. Adding someone like Cody doesn't fit their style. Fili Moala should've been a good pick, it's just unfortunate for them he hasn't been the impact player they had hoped for yet


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        • #5
          I've been arguing for a while that that the Colts should start doing things another way. It's clear that while Manning is a great, HoF QB, he can't win with this team. The Colts have the worst pair of starting defensive tackles in the NFL. The defense is lacking talent at every position besides DE. Their offense (when healthy) is lacking talent on the OL, which is significant. If I were Polian I'd go:

          1. Stephen Paea
          2. BPA OL
          3. Jurrell Casey

          in the next draft. Without the ability to stop the run or to run the ball this team is going nowhere. The league has figured out Peyton Manning I think. You can't win games by throwing the ball 45+ times per game, it's just not how it works (not even with Peyton Manning!). I too think that Manning only has another 5 or so years in him simply due to the fact, that he's thrown the ball so many times. I haven't checked the numbers, but I'm pretty sure he has more attempt per game than most QBs in the history of the NFL.

          Originally posted by ElectricEye
          I'm a whiny little kunt. Feel sorry for me as I go masturbate to a picture of my mom dressed as a teletubby.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
            I don't know. Rightly or wrongly the Colts defense is based on speed and stopping teams scoring quickly. Their philosophy seems to be that they can stop teams from scoring TDs in the red area and believe Manning and the offense will outscore other teams, thus allowing their defense to play the pass. This is why Freeney and Mathis are so successful. The main problem this year is the offense is not as successful and due to turnovers the defense is put in bad situations too often. It was only a few years ago they broke an NFL record for least amount of TD passes in a season and they would bet that despite losing the time of possession battle they will still score more than opposing offenses. Adding someone like Cody doesn't fit their style. Fili Moala should've been a good pick, it's just unfortunate for them he hasn't been the impact player they had hoped for yet
            The big difference this year is the defense to tell you the truth. They've scored the more points per game this year than last year. The big difference is that the defense is giving up about 5 more points per game than last year. I didn't think it was possible but this year's run defense is even worst than last years. Teams just reply to the colts scoring by running the ball down their throats. I know Cody doesn't fit their style but why not try something new? Give up the little pressure you generate with these smaller DTs and just get a monster lane clogger and see if anything better happens.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tuan33 View Post
              The big difference this year is the defense to tell you the truth. They've scored the more points per game this year than last year. The big difference is that the defense is giving up about 5 more points per game than last year. I didn't think it was possible but this year's run defense is even worst than last years. Teams just reply to the colts scoring by running the ball down their throats. I know Cody doesn't fit their style but why not try something new? Give up the little pressure you generate with these smaller DTs and just get a monster lane clogger and see if anything better happens.
              Yeah I agree and it's definitely the way I would go. I don't agree with the Colts philosophy, even when their defense was good, because if injuries happen or Manning's play dips then problems can happen


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              • #8
                Originally posted by tuan33 View Post
                Give up the little pressure you generate with these smaller DTs and just get a monster lane clogger and see if anything better happens.
                The Colts three main Defensive Tackles (Moala, Muir and Mookie Johnson) are all over 300 lbs. You can argue about the talent levels on the D-line but this whole undersized crap is nonsense. The Colts run defense has been worse this year compared to last year. There are numerous reasons behind that. Before laying the blame squarely on the Defensive Tackles remember that the Colts haven't had a single game with all 3 of their starting Linebackers playing. Clint Session, the team's best tackler, has missed 8 games. Gary Brackett has missed 4 games. Session's backup, Kavell Conner, has missed 4 games (the majority while Session was missing as well). As a defensive system the Tampa 2 requires the Safeties to help in run support. Well the Colts are onto their 4th string Strong Safety.

                There are many reasons the Colts are soft against the run this year and the whole undersized Defensive Tackles crap isn't one of them.
                Originally posted by George Carlin

                In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

                In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Seamus2602 View Post
                  The Colts three main Defensive Tackles (Moala, Muir and Mookie Johnson) are all over 300 lbs. You can argue about the talent levels on the D-line but this whole undersized crap is nonsense. The Colts run defense has been worse this year compared to last year. There are numerous reasons behind that. Before laying the blame squarely on the Defensive Tackles remember that the Colts haven't had a single game with all 3 of their starting Linebackers playing. Clint Session, the team's best tackler, has missed 8 games. Gary Brackett has missed 4 games. Session's backup, Kavell Conner, has missed 4 games (the majority while Session was missing as well). As a defensive system the Tampa 2 requires the Safeties to help in run support. Well the Colts are onto their 4th string Strong Safety.

                  There are many reasons the Colts are soft against the run this year and the whole undersized Defensive Tackles crap isn't one of them.
                  Lol you are an angry young man today. All 3 DTs are over 300lbs but that's not big for a DT. In comparison, the Patriots have one defensive lineman(DEs and DTs) under 300lbs and that's Mike Wright who is a pass rush specialist. The Colts have a smaller than average front. I understand the linebackers and safetys havent been healthy or played well enough and this is affecting the run defense, but the DTs are not the most stout DTs in the league either.


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
                    Lol you are an angry young man today. All 3 DTs are over 300lbs but that's not big for a DT. In comparison, the Patriots have one defensive lineman(DEs and DTs) under 300lbs and that's Mike Wright who is a pass rush specialist. The Colts have a smaller than average front. I understand the linebackers and safetys havent been healthy or played well enough and this is affecting the run defense, but the DTs are not the most stout DTs in the league either.
                    No their not but they're the same DTs as last year with the real change that Fili Moala (at 300lbs) has largely replaced Foster (at 260lbs who has moved to DE). While play can regress it doesn't regress to a stage that you are giving up half a yard a carry more than the year before. The DTs aren't great against the run but then they weren't great against it last year. The regression in the run defense isn't on them.
                    Originally posted by George Carlin

                    In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

                    In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Seamus2602 View Post
                      No their not but they're the same DTs as last year with the real change that Fili Moala (at 300lbs) has largely replaced Foster (at 260lbs who has moved to DE). While play can regress it doesn't regress to a stage that you are giving up half a yard a carry more than the year before. The DTs aren't great against the run but then they weren't great against it last year. The regression in the run defense isn't on them.
                      Yeah the overall play of the defense has resulted in it but it wouldn't hurt to have someone who can actively take on double teams to free up the lbers and safetys. In general, seldom does a team have 4 defensive linemen who can play all three downs. On obvious run downs it wouldn't hurt the Colts to have a big guy to play the nose


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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
                        Yeah the overall play of the defense has resulted in it but it wouldn't hurt to have someone who can actively take on double teams to free up the lbers and safetys. In general, seldom does a team have 4 defensive linemen who can play all three downs. On obvious run downs it wouldn't hurt the Colts to have a big guy to play the nose
                        That's why we drafted Terrence Taylor and it worked out brilliantly.

                        The defense does play better with a big guy to take on the doubles. You just need to look how well Indy played when we brought in Booger. Its just about finding someone in the lower rounds of the draft as I don't think Polian wants to spend a 1-3 round pick on a 2 down guy. That and we need roughly about 5 new starters on the Offensive Line in this year's draft.
                        Originally posted by George Carlin

                        In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

                        In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Seamus2602 View Post
                          That's why we drafted Terrence Taylor and it worked out brilliantly.

                          The defense does play better with a big guy to take on the doubles. You just need to look how well Indy played when we brought in Booger. Its just about finding someone in the lower rounds of the draft as I don't think Polian wants to spend a 1-3 round pick on a 2 down guy. That and we need roughly about 5 new starters on the Offensive Line in this year's draft.
                          Lol true. I know it's not in his style but depending on where you're picking, Polian could go for example

                          Derek Sherrod/Anthony Castonzo
                          Sione Fua
                          Kris O'Dowd/Darius Morris

                          In those first three rounds if you could upgrade a few positions along the offensive line, get a guy who is good on the nose and then after get a guy like Nate Irving in the 4th or 5th it would really help the team. However looking at Polian's draft history he will probably take a DE, WR, CB, WR, DE in the first 5 rounds


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AntoinCD View Post
                            Lol true. I know it's not in his style but depending on where you're picking, Polian could go for example

                            Derek Sherrod/Anthony Castonzo
                            Sione Fua
                            Kris O'Dowd/Darius Morris

                            In those first three rounds if you could upgrade a few positions along the offensive line, get a guy who is good on the nose and then after get a guy like Nate Irving in the 4th or 5th it would really help the team. However looking at Polian's draft history he will probably take a DE, WR, CB, WR, DE in the first 5 rounds
                            I'm not going to criticise Bill Polian like a lot of Colts fans do. For all mind boggling, wtf moments that he causes with his draft picks does anyone really wanna argue that it hasn't worked? Since Polian has been President the Colts have made the playoffs all but two years, have won the Superbowl, been back to the Superbowl and have an overall record of 138-67 in that time frame. He's doing something right even if we don't quite know what it is.
                            Originally posted by George Carlin

                            In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

                            In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Seamus2602 View Post
                              I'm not going to criticise Bill Polian like a lot of Colts fans do. For all mind boggling, wtf moments that he causes with his draft picks does anyone really wanna argue that it hasn't worked? Since Polian has been President the Colts have made the playoffs all but two years, have won the Superbowl, been back to the Superbowl and have an overall record of 138-67 in that time frame. He's doing something right even if we don't quite know what it is.
                              True but it is all built around Manning. As the OP was saying if this stops working, what is the backup plan?


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