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Tom Brady: The Cautionary Tale

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  • #16
    Originally posted by descendency View Post
    He's had a bad game or two in 19 playoff appearances and people want to say the mystique is gone?

    I'm going to wait a week before I make any judgments so I can look back over it all in my mind, but I am kind of laughing at all of the people jumping off the cliff at the moment.
    Hey man, I still said he's one of the best of all time. And you can't take the past performances away from him, whatsoever.

    But the past three playoff games have been an upset in the Superbowl in which the offense drastically underachieved, a shutout at home, and another very disappointing outing at home in which he let the Jets completely dictated the flow of his offense. That's not a very good recent history.

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    • #17
      I don't think Brady or any QB wins alone. It's really silly to say that about any player in football. A QB spends around half of any game standing on the sideline. However, QBs are clearly the most important single players and Brady is the big reason the Patriots have 3 rings and are competitive every year. There's a reason QBs are the highest paid players and a reason quality organizations spend big resources to acquire a franchise QB when they need one. Every team left in the playoffs spent at least one first round pick to acquire their starting QB. In the case of the Bears, they spent a lot more than one first rounder. I know some fans get their feeling hurt by the way QBs are always given a lot of credit and press, but there's a reason for it.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
        I was thinking about doing a write up on this as well, and was discussing the subject in the Divisional Round thread.

        People think of me as either a massive Manning hater or a Brady lover. I'm neither, I just call it the way my eyes see it. And if I'm a hater, then I'm an equal opportunity hater.

        Combine the poor performance in the 2007 Superbowl, the shutout/blowout last year to the Ravens, and this year's stinker against the Jets, and Brady's postseason mystique is starting to wane off - if it isn't completely gone.

        But here's the thing...I'm not making any excuses for him. And you could totally make that argument for him. Look at the boxscore and stateline: 28-21, 29-45, 64%, 299 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT. That's "good enough to win" numbers I guess. And the o-line and defense played poor, and blah blah blah (excuses, excuses).

        But you know what? My eyes don't lie. He had zero command of the game today. He was oblivious to pressure in the pocket. Once he lost his rhythm, he couldn't get it back. He played pretty terribly.

        On the other hand, you still can't take the three rings away from him. He's still one of the best quarterbacks of all time. The old argument against him was that he wasn't a dominant statistical passer, but he's turned into that in recent seasons. But, like DMW said, this has also coincided with embarrassing playoff losses.

        In regards to him vs Manning, I don't see how you can (or will) be able to chalk it up to anything other than a draw. They've both still got some time left, but I both have their best days behind them. Looking at the matchups on Championship weekend, we're seeing a changing of the guard at the quarterback position.

        And for the money, I'm probably going to start touting Big Ben as best QB in the league. Especially if they go to (and/or win) the Superbowl with a practice squad offensive line.
        Lmao...wow. you made some decent points in there, then went completely off your rocker the last 2 paragraphs. Look I know the natural tendency is to dismiss the team and the QB that just lost, automatically...but Manning and Brady both have at least 5 years of solid football in them, and their teams certainly are not getting worse next year. Indy gets healthy and NE has a ton of draft picks at their disposal and a ton of young developing players. This is knee-jerk...Indy and NE aren't going anywhere for quite awhile.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
          Hey man, I still said he's one of the best of all time. And you can't take the past performances away from him, whatsoever.

          But the past three playoff games have been an upset in the Superbowl in which the offense drastically underachieved, a shutout at home, and another very disappointing outing at home in which he let the Jets completely dictate the flow of his offense. That's not a very good recent history.
          The thing about him and Manning is, they are both almost the entire team. So as soon as one of them have a bad game, the team loses.

          A guy like Ben can have a bad game, and his defense will carry him, and people will still proclaim him to be great. Give me the Steelers D with Brady over the Steelers D with Ben 100 times out of 100.

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          • #20
            To stick with what the original post (kind of) was saying, I don't think people realise just how difficult it is to win a superbowl. This is especially true if you are team that relies on great games from your QB like the Colts/ Pats recently, Saints etc. It really is a lot to ask of any QB to put in 3/4 exceptional performances against other elite teams without your run game, defense and special teams taking some of the pressure off.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
              If he wins the Superbowl this year, I wouldn't argue against Rodgers at all.
              Yeah I think they are going to represent the NFC at this point, or that is my prediction at least.

              Im just very impressed with what A-Rod has done with basically zero running game this season. Hes very confident, and has a swagger to him that makes him that much better.

              Every single time i watch him play i make sure to remind my friend that I said the 9ers should take him over Smith....which he didnt ever agree with.



              Originally posted by 49erNation85
              I wouldn't be sir prized if he passed McCoy on the depth chart. I think he might have a better arm and accurate arm then him from the highlights I thought. He also got some wheels too help us prepare for QB's as Wilson , RG3 and other runners etc.

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              • #22
                I said it once before, and it was apparent during the 16-0 season:

                Brady IS Manning now, he's proving that it's easier to win with a dominant defense where you have to come up with a big drive or two once per game, and not rely on getting into shootouts.

                Since Brady became a super prolific regular season QB, his playoff record looks mediocre. That's what happens when you have to carry a team through the air.

                Moral of the story? Only Drew Brees can bust up passing records and lead a dominant offensive run through the playoffs without a lockdown D :D JK JK JK
                Originally posted by SNIPER26
                fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.

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                • #23
                  Rignt now, with the game on the line give me Big Ben. For an entire game give me A-Rod.

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                  • #24
                    Really, you just can't look at things in black and white terms. So Brady wasn't one of the better playoff guys number wise. He still did what he needed to and more during those SB years when you factor in the clutch factor and such. But still when you look at guys like Mark Sanchez you can't just say that he's winning so he's obviously playing well. It has to be on a case by case basis so you can't just say so and so has this many rings so he's better than Dan Marino. Every case is different. Tom Brady is still one of the best QB's of all time, but he's not better than guys like Joe Montana.
                    Last edited by yo123; 01-17-2011, 02:40 AM.

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                    • #25
                      well, if we're going to make this a serious thread...

                      people make too much of the playoffs. it's too small of a sample size. over the course of a guy's career it can be a knock at the end if he's always there and always falls short. a couple games? no

                      knee jerking brady down is dumb. so is knee jerking someone else up. what if the bears win this SB? is cutler the new QB god like brees was last year? roethlisberger has moved up in my eyes because of how he's improved as a QB in the last couple years, not because he won 2 SBs playing with a great team and has another shot now. even after I grant how great he's playing now...the steelers went 3-1 without him this year. are they getting a shot at a SB with charlie batch or dennis dixon? probably not, because those guys suck (well, batch is decent for an old back up but whatever). but they missed the playoffs last year with big benzzz because they lost a ton of close games and the defense was good, not great with polamalu out most of the year. where was his clutchness then? quarterback is the most important position in football but it is not the only position. and it alone cannot overcome 11 other positions (an opposing defense).

                      the playoffs have great performances. occasionally by great players, occasionally by not so great players. marshawn lynch is a crappy NFL running back. the fact that he had the run of his professional life in the playoffs does not change that fact. where this gets muddied is when you try to determine how great a guy is because of how he plays in a couple games, especially compared to how great some other guy is in those couple of games.

                      right now I dont see how anyone can justifiably argue that one guy (or small group of guys) is that far ahead of anyone else right now since brady and manning are getting older while some of the better young QBs have really started to mature and step it up. it's all tiers to me right now and tier 1 is no longer manning/brady.

                      i mean, if you want to put one guy ahead of everyone else be my guest. good luck convincing even a small minority of people that, though. for one, this isn't the nba. it's 1 of 53, not 1 of 13. but hey, if the NFL michael jordan shows up, call me

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                      • #26
                        I've spent numerous times arguing for Peyton but what I've learned is this:

                        You can build a team around a QB, a QB around a team, but a QB shouldn't be a team.
                        Is that a rash?



                        Give JKPIGSKIN credit for this masterpiece

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                        • #27
                          Brady and Manning being good QBs doesn't mean they rest of the team isn't trying to be good too. I've never heard anyone from the Patriots, Colts or and other team say "Hey, our QB is good so we don't need other good players". Some of these arguments I'm reading are bordering on "Brady and Manning are hurting their teams."

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by SchizophrenicBatman View Post
                            well, if we're going to make this a serious thread...

                            people make too much of the playoffs. it's too small of a sample size. over the course of a guy's career it can be a knock at the end if he's always there and always falls short. a couple games? no

                            knee jerking brady down is dumb. so is knee jerking someone else up. what if the bears win this SB? is cutler the new QB god like brees was last year? roethlisberger has moved up in my eyes because of how he's improved as a QB in the last couple years, not because he won 2 SBs playing with a great team and has another shot now. even after I grant how great he's playing now...the steelers went 3-1 without him this year. are they getting a shot at a SB with charlie batch or dennis dixon? probably not, because those guys suck (well, batch is decent for an old back up but whatever). but they missed the playoffs last year with big benzzz because they lost a ton of close games and the defense was good, not great with polamalu out most of the year. where was his clutchness then? quarterback is the most important position in football but it is not the only position. and it alone cannot overcome 11 other positions (an opposing defense).

                            the playoffs have great performances. occasionally by great players, occasionally by not so great players. marshawn lynch is a crappy NFL running back. the fact that he had the run of his professional life in the playoffs does not change that fact. where this gets muddied is when you try to determine how great a guy is because of how he plays in a couple games, especially compared to how great some other guy is in those couple of games.

                            right now I dont see how anyone can justifiably argue that one guy (or small group of guys) is that far ahead of anyone else right now since brady and manning are getting older while some of the better young QBs have really started to mature and step it up. it's all tiers to me right now and tier 1 is no longer manning/brady.

                            i mean, if you want to put one guy ahead of everyone else be my guest. good luck convincing even a small minority of people that, though. for one, this isn't the nba. it's 1 of 53, not 1 of 13. but hey, if the NFL michael jordan shows up, call me

                            I agree with you to an extent. I feel like too much stock is put into NFL Qb's winning-wise, but there definitely are certain QB's that come alive in certain situations that other QB's wouldn't. I think Peyton,speaking in general terms other than his SB year is a bona fide choke artist. Is he still a good QB? Of course he is, especially because he has a ring. But overall he's a choke artist. Other QB's that aren't nearly as talented are just as good in historical terms like Big Ben, because when crunch time comes he's as good a QB as is out there right now. It's all relative.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Halsey View Post
                              Brady and Manning being good QBs doesn't mean they rest of the team isn't trying to be good too. I've never heard anyone from the Patriots, Colts or and other team say "Hey, our QB is good so we don't need other good players". Some of these arguments I'm reading are bordering on "Brady and Manning are hurting their teams."

                              Well really that's what the Colts have said for 10 years now. Peyton is good so who gives a **** about our defense? Or offensive line?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Philliez01 View Post
                                I've spent numerous times arguing for Peyton but what I've learned is this:

                                You can build a team around a QB, a QB around a team, but a QB shouldn't be a team.
                                Just look how utterly ineffective Peyton was last week with his #2 WR and TE out and his #1 WR completely taken out of the game. No running game, no defense. It takes a village. Bob Sanders being hurt really makes that a different team too. Aaron Francisco just shouldn't be starting in this league. But people don't think of these things and they blast you when you do. You're supposed to assume Manning and Brady suck and every other young QB is great. Everyone is so quick to dismiss the veterans and pump up the new guys. Now we're all through with Brady and Manning I guess and ready to anoint Rodgers and Ben. Completely different scenarios there where Manning and Brady carry the team and lack a great defense.

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