Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Troy Aikman vs. Steve Young

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
    That's because it's such an arbitrary and subjective topic - and it really just comes down to how you define "better."

    The line is really drawn when you're attempting to define "who was the better player" vs "who had the better career." How you value these things ultimately affects your perception on the greatness of players.

    Hardcore fans tend to be such close-up examiners that they end up not being able to see the forest for the trees, so to speak. I've given countless examples over the years about how worthless statistics are in measuring a player's ability because statistics in football don't happen in a vacuum.

    This is especially true for quarterbacks. Football is a team game, yes, but the quarterback arguably has more of an impact on any particular game than the other 21 players combined. He is the conductor of the offense and the trophy of the defense.

    The most unfair recipients of criticism, IMO, is Terry Bradshaw. The favorite arguments against him center around his statistics and his supporting cast. Fine. Well, who in the 1970s was better than Bradshaw? Really, the only guy is Staubach - and he would likely be considered the GOAT if he had played a full NFL career.
    I'm all about Joe Montana and Johnny U.

    You know what I hate? People forget that qbs back in the day would call their own games. This tidbit gets lost in the convos of great qbs.

    Johnny U was every bit the signal caller than Peyton is today. But no one remembers that football existed before headsets in helmets.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
      I'm all about Joe Montana and Johnny U.

      You know what I hate? People forget that qbs back in the day would call their own games. This tidbit gets lost in the convos of great qbs.

      Johnny U was every bit the signal caller than Peyton is today. But no one remembers that football existed before headsets in helmets.
      That's solely due to Peyton's seizure dance before every snap.

      "ZOMGZ they call in three plays and he picks the best one."

      Yeah. It's called a ******* audible. My high school kids were able to do it.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
        Wait, so how you perform against the best competition should somehow count less because it's harder?

        This is exactly what we're talking about.
        No, what im saying is that expecting great qbs to be as statistically dominant in the playoffs as they are in the regular season is crazy.

        Look at it this way. All those qbs put up crazy regular season numbers because their teams required them to to win the game. But when the post season comes, you cant be a one trick pony or a one man show and expect that to work anymore. At some point someone is going to catch on, and the best defenses always do.

        people always rip qbs (brady this year, peyton in the past) for being great in the regular season then failing in the playoffs. but usually the guy who is considered best in the regular season earned that title because he dragged his average team to the playoffs and put up great stats in the process. Thats great and all, but as i said its great teams that win championships, not great qbs with average teams.

        Basically, in a nut shell, teams win championships, not individuals.
        Originally posted by Thumper/JBCX/Bixby
        Orton will never be in the same class as the Drew Brees or the Peyton Mannings or the Tom Bradys of the world. Kevin Kolb has the potential to be that kind of player.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
          The most unfair recipients of criticism, IMO, is Terry Bradshaw. The favorite arguments against him center around his statistics and his supporting cast. Fine. Well, who in the 1970s was better than Bradshaw? Really, the only guy is Staubach - and he would likely be considered the GOAT if he had played a full NFL career.
          Maybe Kenny Stabler.

          "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
          -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
          Originally posted by Borat
          Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

          Comment


          • #50
            Peyton has underachieved in the playoffs, whether he faced great defenses or not.

            Throwing picks in critical game situations is on him, not his 'team' IMO.
            IMO one line of separation for the truly great QBs is what they do in the playoffs. Aikman was clutch in the playoffs and the Cowboys would not have won those three SBs without Aikman being at his absolute best when the games mattered most.
            Same for Montana. Same for Elway, (except in those SB blowouts!!!lol).

            It's one thing to have a QB play his ass off in the playoffs and his team still loses, like Kurt Warner and the Cards loss to the Steelers.
            But it's not the same as having arguably your team's best player show up small in big games.

            That's one problem I have with Peyton; rarely do the Colts get eliminated in the playoffs where I think, 'at least Manning played a helluva game but the rest of his team didn't show up'.
            Too often he's been just average, ( or worse) in the postseason.

            Aikman was a great 'pressure' QB and almost always came through in clutch situations and IMO earned those three rings, but I still prefer Steve Young a bit more to QB my team.

            Comment


            • #51
              Steve Young lost in the playoffs only to Dallas or Green Bay, two great teams in the 90's. And then once to the Falcons, but by that time it was towards the end of the Steve's career, the defense wasn't that great, and everyone was getting either old or hurt.

              "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
              -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
              Originally posted by Borat
              Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Ness View Post
                Maybe Kenny Stabler.
                I was waiting for someone to bite with this answer. ;)

                The Steelers and Raiders absolutely dominated the AFC in the 1970s. And I've made a few posts on here about how if the Raiders could have beaten the Steelers more than one time (in a game where the Steelers were crippled with injuries, btw), than you'd probably see Stabler replacing Bradshaw, Cliff Branch replacing Lynn Swann, Phil Villapiano replacing Jack Ham, and one of the two Raider safeties (Atkinson or Tatum) in the HOF.

                Also, I wouldn't even say that Stabler was a better quarterback statistically. His QB rating was five points higher than Bradshaw's, but that was due to his completion percentage (likewise, Bradshaw's is so low because of his low completion percentage). Bradshaw, however, through for more touchdowns and fewer interceptions. Pretty much a wash there.

                The ring is validation. It's what ultimately ends up separating the "great" from the "very good."

                Comment


                • #53
                  everyone knows Kenny Stabler and the 70's Raiders were ******* awesome, you dont have to argue that :D

                  Pick the Winners Champion 2008 | 2011

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                    I'm all about Joe Montana and Johnny U.

                    You know what I hate? People forget that qbs back in the day would call their own games. This tidbit gets lost in the convos of great qbs.

                    Johnny U was every bit the signal caller than Peyton is today. But no one remembers that football existed before headsets in helmets.
                    If Johnny Unitas had a week to study and prepare for Rex Ryan, he'd have a ******* heart attack. I understand how the guys back in the day did a lot of things similarly to what QBs these days do, but it's crazy to think that it isn't 100x more difficult now than it was then.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by MetSox17 View Post
                      If Johnny Unitas had a week to study and prepare for Rex Ryan, he'd have a ******* heart attack. I understand how the guys back in the day did a lot of things similarly to what QBs these days do, but it's crazy to think that it isn't 100x more difficult now than it was then.
                      It works both ways.

                      Quarterbacks today would **** themselves if their offensive linemen couldn't use their hands to pass block whilst defensive linemen can headslap the **** out of them. And their wide receivers could get mugged up until the point that the ball is in the air. And they can get clotheslined after. And with no rules in place to protect the quarterback, they'd be getting cheap shotted on almost every single play. Johnny Unitas created the two minute drill in those kind of conditions. That's insane.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                        And their wide receivers could get mugged up until the point that the ball is in the air.
                        Peyton Manning knows all about this, and would probably have more post-season success if this wasn't still happening a few years ago.


                        As far as the rest of your post, ehh. I was hoping you wouldn't counter with that, but it is what it is. I know it will always be impossible to try to compare players from two completely different eras of football, but i think Peyton Manning would be an all-time great regardless of when he played. The fact that he's so good now, with the huge emphasis that teams put on disguising their defensive schemes, is extremely impressive.




                        Wait, why the **** am i talking about Peyton Manning?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by MetSox17 View Post
                          Peyton Manning knows all about this, and would probably have more post-season success if this wasn't still happening a few years ago.


                          As far as the rest of your post, ehh. I was hoping you wouldn't counter with that, but it is what it is. I know it will always be impossible to try to compare players from two completely different eras of football, but i think Peyton Manning would be an all-time great regardless of when he played. The fact that he's so good now, with the huge emphasis that teams put on disguising their defensive schemes, is extremely impressive.




                          Wait, why the **** am i talking about Peyton Manning?
                          So you're trying to tell me a guy who willingly surrenders to the ground at the first sign of pressure would be able be an all-time great in the most violent setting possible for quarterbacks? Color me skeptical.

                          When you're comparing players across an era, it's very difficult to do it in a vacuum. How much would Peyton's knowledge of present day offensive and defensive schemes going to really help him in that era? It would be worthless, since very little of it would be applicable to the game that he'd be playing in.

                          Conversely, why should we assume that Unitas couldn't have absorbed today's intricate offensive and defensive schemes? He was so far ahead of his contemporaries during his era that it's unreal - and you can argue that his style of play would have been far more conducive to statistical dominance in this era than the one he played in. He was ahead of his time in every sense of the phrase.

                          Also, to compare the holding and jostling the Colts received from the Patriots DBs to what was happening before the rule changes of 1976 is almost laughable. Imagine even more contact...with the receivers not being protected whatsoever after the catch...and Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday not being able to use their hands (forearms only) in pass protection while getting headslapped on every play by Seymour, McGinnist, and Vrabel...and Manning getting cheapshotted on almost every single pass attempt.

                          BF51 summed this argument up perfectly: "I know more than Galileo. But hey...everything is relative."

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                            The ring is validation. It's what ultimately ends up separating the "great" from the "very good."
                            I hope you're talking about the teams and not the individual players. Some of the best guys to have played the game went their entire careers without a ring.

                            "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
                            -San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-
                            Originally posted by Borat
                            Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by yourfavestoner View Post
                              BF51 summed this argument up perfectly: "I know more than Galileo. But hey...everything is relative."
                              Great ******* quote
                              -Boston Red Sox-New England Patriots-Boston Celtics-

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X

                              Debug Information