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  • #61
    so all this talk about worst franchise going around, who wins the best franchise award??

    and i think it is the saints, even though i am a native of louisiana, this yr and one yr in the early 90's is the only yr i ever got excited about them playing.


    Silverback....still the best.

    +rep to Jakey for the sig

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    • #62
      The Cardinals really have to turn their season around year. They got a good coaching staff and promising players, all they really need is a decent defense. In this draft they should invest in some good defense quialty guys.


      Thanks to jackalope

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      • #63
        Originally posted by njx9
        by context, i'm assuming you meant for "worst" franchise, but your statement is ambiguous.
        well i am hoping that noone on this site is foolish enough to think i meant the saints as best franchise. sorry for the confusion i may have caused.


        Silverback....still the best.

        +rep to Jakey for the sig

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by njx9
          you'd be surprised with some of the homers here...
          haha this is true.


          Silverback....still the best.

          +rep to Jakey for the sig

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by njx9
            thank god for tom brady, eh? it's sort of amazing how bad new england was for so long, and then how good they all of a sudden got. you'd think some of these other moribund franchises would've tried to follow their example.
            Even without Tom Brady, we're still better than half the NFL as far as your list.

            And to be honest, that surprised me.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by NFLBOY View Post
              Lions without question. Cards are close and of course the saints and bengals are right behind them.
              While the Bengals were horrible in the 90's we have two AFC championships to our name.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by njx9
                iirc, starting in about the 90's, all of a sudden that patriots got really good. i believe there was a string of about 8 straight years with less than 6 wins in the 80's, and a similar streak in the 70's... combine that with the sox, and it's a good thing you people had the celtics or boston would be just about as desolate as detroit.
                I disagree. The Sox were and still are almost always in it, the Bruins went to the playoffs for about 30 straight years and went far on several occasions, and the Patriots had several decent runs in every decade. Now, they may not have been prolonged or had the early success of some of the other teams, but they still had about as many decent seasons as every other average NFL team that wasn't Dallas, San Fran, Pitt, etc. They just had one of the worst ownership situations in the league.

                That said, they still had 14 winning seasons before Tom Brady, which is about 47% of the seasons played since 1970 (according to your list). Considering half the NFL can't say that, I'll take it...

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by bigbluedefense View Post
                  For all the raving of Vince Young, he's still an unproven passer.
                  This is something I wanted to give my input on. Its ironic to me, that everyone proclaims Michael Vick as overrated, over hyped. Yet, these are the same people who are anointing Vince Young. Quite frankly; those people are short-sighted.

                  There is nothing Vince Young did last year, that equaled Michael Vick's '02 season. Michael Vick outclassed Young, as a passer, runner, he led a mediocre team to the playoffs, and a road playoff win, he willed his team to victories that year. However, because he hasn't evolved since then, people conveniently forget about that. Vick didn't progress, for a multitude of reasons, which have been well noted. Thus far, there is no indication that Vince Young will become a elite passer, and runner, at the same time. Actually; it may even be presumptuous to assume he ever matches Michael Vick's '02 season, or even Randall Cunningham in his prime, dominance.

                  Reggie Bush would NOT succeed greatly in Houston. They run ZBS. Reggie Bush for all his accolades has been a below average RB in the NFL so far.
                  It's amazing that no one recognizes the horrible scheme fit, Reggie Bush was. Even prior to the draft, rumors were the Texans weren't interested in Bush, word from Bush's camp was that the Texans didn't intend on taking him. Yet, everyone was a gasped as to how that could be. If you compare Bush's rushing production to any rookie RB, he was horrible. Even Wali Lundy, Leon Washington, day-2 players, were more productive on the ground. Reggie Bush should be thankful New Orleans took him, otherwise, he would have looked like a bust in Houston. It was never a good fit, which is why they didn't take him. Why people cannot grasp that basic concept, is bewildering to me.

                  Mario Williams has the potential, and before he got injured was realizing it, to be a dominant DE in the league. They got an absolute stud MIKE in DeMeco Ryans. They built up their oline. They got a good TE in the draft. They got rid of the deadweight known as Carr and got a solid qb for cheap. They have a plan, thats building a dominant defense to combat Peyton Manning. And I think it will work. You can't kill Mario Williams after an injury filled rookie year. Couple the fact that even then, he outperformed Reggie Bush for most of the season, I don't see your line of reasoning. Don't jump to conclusions so quickly. I think the Texans so far are making all the right moves. Come back to me in 3 years, and see if you still feel the same way. I guarantee you the Texans will prove they made the right moves 3 years from now.
                  The Texans had one of the most acclaimed drafts last year, yet all anyone can think about is that first pick. To go along with your points, before his plantar fasciitis, he was out-performing his fellow draftees. Those who are vocal against the Texans' draft decision last year, assume Bush will improve as a runner, Young as a passer. Yet, they are hypocritical, because they assume Mario Williams, a 21-year old, won't improve his technique, and pass rush repertoire. Best case:
                  • Reggie Bush becomes Brian Westbrook, except more durable.
                  • Vince Young becomes Randall Cunningham.
                  • Mario Williams can be Julius Peppers, only bigger, stronger.
                  Last edited by Shiver; 03-28-2007, 02:22 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                    This is something I wanted to give my input on. Its ironic to me, that everyone proclaims Michael Vick as overrated, over hyped. Yet, these are the same people who are anointing Vince Young. Quite frankly; those people are short-sighted.

                    There is nothing Vince Young did last year, that equaled Michael Vick's '02 season. Michael Vick outclassed Young, as a passer, runner, he led a mediocre team to the playoffs, and a road playoff win, he willed his team to victories that year. However, because he hasn't evolved since then, people conveniently forget about that. Vick didn't progress, for a multitude of reasons, which have been well noted. Thus far, there is no indication that Vince Young will become a elite passer, and runner, at the same time. Actually; it may even be presumptuous to assume he ever matches Michael Vick's '02 season, or even Randall Cunningham in his prime, dominance.



                    It's amazing that no one recognizes the horrible scheme fit, Reggie Bush was. Even prior to the draft, rumors were the Texans weren't interested in Bush, word from Bush's camp was that the Texans didn't intend on taking him. Yet, everyone was a gasped as to how that could be. If you compare Bush's rushing production to any rookie RB, he was horrible. Even Wali Lundy, Leon Washington, day-2 players, were more productive on the ground. Reggie Bush should be thankful New Orleans took him, otherwise, he would have looked like a bust in Houston. It was never a good fit, which is why they didn't take him. Why people cannot grasp that basic concept, is bewildering to me.



                    The Texans had one of the most acclaimed drafts last year, yet all anyone can think about is that first pick. To go along with your points, before his plantar fasciitis, he was out-performing his fellow draftees. Those who are vocal against the Texans' draft decision last year, assume Bush will improve as a runner, Young as a passer. Yet, they are hypocritical, because they assume Mario Williams, a 21-year old, won't improve his technique, and pass rush repertoire. Best case:
                    • Reggie Bush becomes Brian Westbrook, except more durable.
                    • Vince Young becomes Randall Cunningham.
                    • Mario Williams can be Julius Peppers, only bigger, stronger.
                    Yup, yup, yup and yup. Basically, you hit it on the head. In 3 years, we'll see what people say about the Texans draft. They made the right moves.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                      [*]Mario Williams can be Julius Peppers, only bigger, stronger.[/LIST]
                      Last year peppers reported for the regular season at 292 pounds. So he's bigger and stronger than Mario, and a hell of a lot faster.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                        Last year peppers reported for the regular season at 292 pounds. So he's bigger and stronger than Mario, and a hell of a lot faster.
                        Theyre the same speed straight line, but Peppers right now has more fluid hips.

                        Williams won't be as athletic as Peppers, but I think he'll be stronger and more of a Reggie White type of DE than Peppers, ie a better bullrusher.

                        Now, I am NOT saying that he's gonna be the next Reggie White, all Im saying is his style will translate more favorably to White's style, whereas I see Peppers being more of a Bruce Smith type of DE in terms of style.

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                        • #72
                          Cleveland Browns


                          ALL COMPLIMENTS TO: BANTX FOR THE SIG

                          XBOX360 Gamertag: GZA88

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Ewing View Post
                            Houston Texans. I've already ranted and raved enough about how much they suck in previous threads.
                            i love ur sig

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by BlindSite View Post
                              Last year peppers reported for the regular season at 292 pounds. So he's bigger and stronger than Mario, and a hell of a lot faster.
                              Mario Williams blew Peppers' away, at this time of their respective careers. There wasn't a single combine workout, which Peppers was superior to Williams. Sure, Peppers has improved. Mario Williams is still only 21-years old, he isn't done improving either. Gary Kubiak thinks, eventually, he will become a 6'6" 300+ pound defensive end, while retaining 4.7 range speed, 40-inch vertical, and will only get stronger. If Williams was bigger, stronger, more explosive, just as fast, as Peppers was at this time in his career. It isn't a stretch to assume that the same will apply when he, likewise, is 27-years old.
                              Last edited by Shiver; 03-28-2007, 06:17 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Shiver View Post
                                Mario Williams blew Peppers' away, at this time of their respective careers. There wasn't a single combine workout, which Peppers was superior to Williams. Sure, Peppers has improved. Mario Williams is still only 21-years old, he isn't done improving either. Gary Kubiak thinks, eventually, he will become a 6'7" 300+ pound defensive end, while retaining 4.7 speed, 40+ inch vertical, inhuman strength.
                                To be fair though, the 6 7" size is a blessing and a curse. While it = long arm length, it also means poor leverage.

                                Thats why we haven't seen Peppers dominate the DE position the way we all envisioned. While he's solid, he plays with poor leverage, and at the end of the day, dline is all about leverage. Athleticism doesn't last forever, but leverage does. Guys like Peppers and Williams will fall off harder at the end of their careers relative to guys like Strahan and Taylor because they'll never play with great leverage.

                                Leverage is how a guy like Strahan, who currently weighs 255 lbs, can play stronger than any DE in the league, including Peppers.

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