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Revist 2004 QB draft.

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  • #16
    Out of curiosity, what do you think Eli can do that Ben can't?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Immaculate Tackle
      Out of curiosity, what do you think Eli can do that Ben can't?
      Look at this

      Player G Att Cmp Pct Tot /Att /G TD TD% Int Int% Sack Rat
      Eli Manning 16 557 294 52.8 3762 6.8 235.1 24 4.3 17 3.1 27 75.9





      Player Team Yds Yds/Att Yds/Gm Att Comp Comp % TD INT Sacked Rating
      1. Ben Roethlisberger PITTSBURGH 2385 8.9 149.1 268 168 62.7 17 9 23 98.6


      Now shut up

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      • #18
        i like Ben in college above any of the others. he is bigger, stronger, has a stronger arm, smarter, can throw on the run better, and more accurate than all of the others execpt maybe and i mean maybe Rivers. i was hoping the steelers didnt want Rivers like was 1st said and the chargers like Ben like was 1st said. i am very happy with who we got.

        you can say that us winning is not all Ben and you are right this is a team game. no one has won in football all by their selfs, but a player can have a bigger % than others and Ben is a Large, Large part of why we won, because we have basically the same team except QB and we could not win and then Ben comes and we go 15-1(and he did not loss the 1) break all kinds of records and come within 1 game of back to back super bowls. the reason we didnt was Ben was hurt and tired and i know we could have beat both teams because we did back to back also stopping NE's win streak.

        so bottom line is i much rather have Ben!

        Matthew 19:26
        Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but With God ALL things are possible

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Immaculate Tackle
          Out of curiosity, what do you think Eli can do that Ben can't?
          Honestly, I don't even want to get into the discussion because other people will jump in and start bantering about how I think too highly of Eli....etc. Once the season is under way we will all have more ammo to fire with, so I'd rather wait til then to have a full blown debate. But to answer your question shortly...I think Eli has more pocket presence and awareness than Ben does. Eli has a feel for pressure that I rarely see in any veteran QBs-let alone a first year starter. I feel that he is more clutch than Ben is (even though Eli played the worst I have seen any playoff QB play against the Panthers last January). He is so dependable late in games when the team needs points on the board, can't say that about Ben yet. I'm not saying he can't be dependable, but that offense has never been in his hands and when it needs to be, I just don't see "it". They both have strong arms, but I would give the arm strength edge to Eli, especially on the 5-10 yard throws and the 40+ yard throws.
          Originally posted by Paul
          Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
          Originally posted by Vikes99ej
          These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
          MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

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          • #20
            Yeah, I agree. It takes three years to first judge a draft class. No one knows how good Losman or Rivers will be. This thread would be much better next year.

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            • #21
              who in the bloody hell voted for jp losman.

              it has to be ben. i know he didn't throw 25-30 times a game. but all he's done is win. he's played smart and done what he's had to do.
              manning does have an upside as of now, and he COULD take the next step. but how can you argue with results.
              and i know it wasn't all big ben...but A LOT of those players were there when tommy maddox was under center.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by steel man
                i like Ben in college above any of the others. he is bigger, stronger, has a stronger arm, smarter, can throw on the run better, and more accurate than all of the others execpt maybe and i mean maybe Rivers. i was hoping the steelers didnt want Rivers like was 1st said and the chargers like Ben like was 1st said. i am very happy with who we got.

                you can say that us winning is not all Ben and you are right this is a team game. no one has won in football all by their selfs, but a player can have a bigger % than others and Ben is a Large, Large part of why we won, because we have basically the same team except QB and we could not win and then Ben comes and we go 15-1(and he did not loss the 1) break all kinds of records and come within 1 game of back to back super bowls. the reason we didnt was Ben was hurt and tired and i know we could have beat both teams because we did back to back also stopping NE's win streak.

                so bottom line is i much rather have Ben!
                Ben is no where near smarter than Eli. That might be the one thing that will always hold him back from being head and shoulders above Eli.

                Also how hurt and tired was he really? Cowher didn't seem to think so.

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                • #23
                  Losman beating Rivers?

                  I figured I'd throw JP a homer sympathy vote, but apparently the guy that needs it is the guy I'd actually take - Philip Rivers

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by jagfan33
                    Originally posted by Immaculate Tackle
                    Out of curiosity, what do you think Eli can do that Ben can't?
                    Look at this

                    Player G Att Cmp Pct Tot /Att /G TD TD% Int Int% Sack Rat
                    Eli Manning 16 557 294 52.8 3762 6.8 235.1 24 4.3 17 3.1 27 75.9
                    Player Team Yds Yds/Att Yds/Gm Att Comp Comp % TD INT Sacked Rating
                    1. Ben Roethlisberger PITTSBURGH 2385 8.9 149.1 268 168 62.7 17 9 23 98.6
                    Now shut up
                    Great argument, moron. Care to explain how that proves anything? Also, were you shaken as a baby?
                    To the other guy:
                    He is so dependable late in games when the team needs points on the board, can't say that about Ben yet. I'm not saying he can't be dependable, but that offense has never been in his hands and when it needs to be, I just don't see "it".
                    You've got to be kidding me. Roethlisberger has SEVEN come-from-behind victories. The reason he's lost so few games is that he almost never comes up short when they need him the most. Read and weep:
                    Tom Brady is next on the list and, remember, these numbers do include the postseason. Brady is one of only a handful of quarterbacks with a winning record in more than three games with a fourth-quarter deficit. The others are Marc Bulger (10-5), Ben Roethlisberger (7-2), Steve Young (7-4) and John Elway (7-6). Bulger, who ranks eighth by this metric, is the only one in that group that has yet to win a Super Bowl.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Tom Brady is next on the list and, remember, these numbers do include the postseason. Brady is one of only a handful of quarterbacks with a winning record in more than three games with a fourth-quarter deficit. The others are Marc Bulger (10-5), Ben Roethlisberger (7-2), Steve Young (7-4) and John Elway (7-6). Bulger, who ranks eighth by this metric, is the only one in that group that has yet to win a Super Bowl.
                      Sounds like one of those dumb KC Joyner metrics. I think this stat is an abberation. Look at how many opportunities Ben has already had. 7-2. Elways was 7-6 in his entire career. So in two years Ben has had 4 less come from behind oppotunities than Elway did in his entire career? My guess would be a lot of those comebacks were of 3 or less points.

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                      • #26
                        This is exactly what I am trying to avoid. The whole insult based posts with the "you gotta be kidding me's". The majority of the NFL world would take Eli over Ben in the last 2 minutes of a game, that's all. In no way am I saying Ben is worse than Eli because I said last spring and I still say it now, Ben is off to a much better start and he has been the best QB up to this point. I have a feeling about Eli this season just like I had a feeling about the Giants last year at this time. Please try to avoid the insult based posts because the entire thread will go down a path that nobody wants to read.
                        Originally posted by Paul
                        Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                        Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                        These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                        MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by SuperMcgee
                          Losman beating Rivers?

                          I figured I'd throw JP a homer sympathy vote, but apparently the guy that needs it is the guy I'd actually take - Philip Rivers

                          I thought coming out of the draft, that Rivers would be the best QB, Roethlisberger second. JP still has a chance, I think he'll have a much better year this upcoming one, building off some of his strong performances last year. Overall it is too early to have this discussion. After all, at this time in 1985, Marino was better than Elway. They all have a lot to prove:

                          Ben needs to show he can lead a offense and be a productive NFL QB, not just a caretaker QB.

                          Eli needs to show sound fundamentals, to improve his accuracy.

                          Rivers needs to play.

                          Losman needs a lot more time to see if he'll "get it."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Jughead10:
                            Wow, read the damn article before calling it stupid. :roll: The data is from 1996, so obviously Elway wouldn't have had many chances.

                            You make me laugh. Anything to avoid the horrible conclusion that Ben Roethlisberger is actually clutch and has proven it in more than one game.
                            The majority of the NFL world would take Eli over Ben in the last 2 minutes of a game, that's all.
                            There's no actual evidence to support this ridiculous claim. It's funny that Giants fans are fawning over how "clutch" Eli is just because of the Denver game.
                            [qoute]Ben needs to show he can lead a offense and be a productive NFL QB, not just a caretaker QB. [/quote]
                            Gee, you'd think no one saw his 3 excellent performances in the playoffs last year. His RBs had something like a 3.0 YPC. More nonsense from Ben bashers.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Immaculate Tackle
                              Jughead10:
                              Wow, read the damn article before calling it stupid. :roll: The data is from 1996, so obviously Elway wouldn't have had many chances.

                              You make me laugh. Anything to avoid the horrible conclusion that Ben Roethlisberger is actually clutch and has proven it in more than one game.
                              The majority of the NFL world would take Eli over Ben in the last 2 minutes of a game, that's all.
                              There's no actual evidence to support this ridiculous claim. It's funny that Giants fans are fawning over how "clutch" Eli is just because of the Denver game.
                              [qoute]Ben needs to show he can lead a offense and be a productive NFL QB, not just a caretaker QB.
                              First I never said Eli was clutch. And no I didn't go to the website because I pretty much frown upon football outsider and the KC Joyners of the world. Still I can't reacall Ben have any real dramatic comebacks. Which leads me to believe without looking it up because I don't have time, that they weren't great feats. Comeback victories could be down by 3 and scoring a TD in the first two minutes of the 4th quarter. Then having your defense hold onto to that. Comeback? Yes. Dramatic? No. Eli will have the appearance of a more clutch QB because I think there were three occassions where he leds his team back with a TD in the final 2 minutes of a game. Whether he is or isn't, I don't know. Still need more time.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Immaculate Tackle
                                Jughead10:
                                Wow, read the damn article before calling it stupid. :roll: The data is from 1996, so obviously Elway wouldn't have had many chances.

                                You make me laugh. Anything to avoid the horrible conclusion that Ben Roethlisberger is actually clutch and has proven it in more than one game.
                                The majority of the NFL world would take Eli over Ben in the last 2 minutes of a game, that's all.
                                There's no actual evidence to support this ridiculous claim. It's funny that Giants fans are fawning over how "clutch" Eli is just because of the Denver game.
                                [qoute]Ben needs to show he can lead a offense and be a productive NFL QB, not just a caretaker QB.
                                Gee, you'd think no one saw his 3 excellent performances in the playoffs last year. His RBs had something like a 3.0 YPC. More nonsense from Ben bashers.[/quote]

                                Example A of why we should not have this discussion right now.
                                Originally posted by Paul
                                Eli's opportunity to become a legend.
                                Originally posted by Vikes99ej
                                These last 50 seconds will define Eli Manning.
                                MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

                                Comment

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