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Revist 2004 QB draft.

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Jughead10
    Originally posted by Smooth Criminal
    Originally posted by KAWICGB
    Originally posted by Immaculate Tackle
    Originally posted by KAWICGB
    You mean like when the Steelers got lucky and Palmer went out early with an injury.
    Does Palmer play defense?
    Or like when they got lucky and Roethlisberger just barely made the tackle against the Colts after that ugly play.
    That invalidates Roethlisberger's performance that day?
    Or how about all of those questionable calls in the Super Bowl.
    Never said he played well in the Superbowl.
    The Steelers were lucky to even make it to the Super Bowl, let alone when it. And when they made it there, they made it there on the Defense and the run game.... last time I checked Big Ben has very little influence on those aspects of the game
    It's obvious you didn't watch the playoff games, just the highlights on ESPN. Congrats.
    The best defense is a good offense

    Many people said Roethlisberger because he has a SB ring on his finger. The comments about the playoffs were made to show that Steelers were lucky to even be in the Superbowl, they weren't just this dominate team. And my unbiased opinion today, as it was then, that it was more of a fluke than anything else.
    Everything the Steelers do is a fluke right?

    I'm sure you were one of the people that said 15-1 was a fluke and Ben would have a "sophmore slump".

    Now the playoffs and superbowl are a fluke aswell.

    Whats it going to take for people to accept the Steelers as a good team?
    Nothing. I think they are a great team. I think that is more of the argument concering Ben.
    15-1 was said to be a fluke last offseason

    He just said the superbowl was a fluke.

    That argument concerns more than just Ben.

    Thanks to The Dynasty for the sig

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Jughead10
      Originally posted by eacantdraft
      Originally posted by Jughead10
      I'm always not going to like Ben probably and that will show in my posts. Nothing football related either, I just don't like him as a person because of certain things he does and says.
      Care to elaborate more on why you don't like him? You don't have to like a person to recognise what a great performer they are. I never really cared for Roger Clements as a person, but I can recognise him as the greatest pitcher of his generation. Only a homer is unable to do that.

      Alot of people including me find the Mannings to be a spoiled family who don't justify the royalty status they give themselves. Yet I recognise Peyton as a top QB in every aspect except winning playoffs. I don't think any descendent of Archie Manning will ever make it to a Super Bowl. They choke on the silver spoon in their mouths every time in the playoffs.
      This season will be interesting, to see if they really open up the Pittsburgh offense and give Ben more repsonsibility like most QBs in the NFL have.
      I think he will. The no huddle offense got a tryout run in the preseason game. Ben looked very good in it even with all of the pressure they were getting on him with that great defensive line. Hopefully we'll see more of it this week against Phily.

      Its not going to be something they run alot. I hope they do it once or twice a game to catch the defense off guard and keep them from subbing players. If they do it anymore than that it won't work aswell.

      Thanks to The Dynasty for the sig

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Smooth Criminal
        Originally posted by Jughead10
        Originally posted by Smooth Criminal
        Originally posted by KAWICGB
        Originally posted by Immaculate Tackle
        Originally posted by KAWICGB
        You mean like when the Steelers got lucky and Palmer went out early with an injury.
        Does Palmer play defense?
        Or like when they got lucky and Roethlisberger just barely made the tackle against the Colts after that ugly play.
        That invalidates Roethlisberger's performance that day?
        Or how about all of those questionable calls in the Super Bowl.
        Never said he played well in the Superbowl.
        The Steelers were lucky to even make it to the Super Bowl, let alone when it. And when they made it there, they made it there on the Defense and the run game.... last time I checked Big Ben has very little influence on those aspects of the game
        It's obvious you didn't watch the playoff games, just the highlights on ESPN. Congrats.
        The best defense is a good offense

        Many people said Roethlisberger because he has a SB ring on his finger. The comments about the playoffs were made to show that Steelers were lucky to even be in the Superbowl, they weren't just this dominate team. And my unbiased opinion today, as it was then, that it was more of a fluke than anything else.
        Everything the Steelers do is a fluke right?

        I'm sure you were one of the people that said 15-1 was a fluke and Ben would have a "sophmore slump".

        Now the playoffs and superbowl are a fluke aswell.

        Whats it going to take for people to accept the Steelers as a good team?
        Nothing. I think they are a great team. I think that is more of the argument concering Ben.
        15-1 was said to be a fluke last offseason

        He just said the superbowl was a fluke.

        That argument concerns more than just Ben.
        Well he is wrong then. The Superbowl wasn't a fluke. What other team could win the Superbowl with their QB having a day like he did.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Jughead10
          Originally posted by Smooth Criminal
          Originally posted by Jughead10
          Originally posted by Smooth Criminal
          Originally posted by KAWICGB
          Originally posted by Immaculate Tackle
          Originally posted by KAWICGB
          You mean like when the Steelers got lucky and Palmer went out early with an injury.
          Does Palmer play defense?
          Or like when they got lucky and Roethlisberger just barely made the tackle against the Colts after that ugly play.
          That invalidates Roethlisberger's performance that day?
          Or how about all of those questionable calls in the Super Bowl.
          Never said he played well in the Superbowl.
          The Steelers were lucky to even make it to the Super Bowl, let alone when it. And when they made it there, they made it there on the Defense and the run game.... last time I checked Big Ben has very little influence on those aspects of the game
          It's obvious you didn't watch the playoff games, just the highlights on ESPN. Congrats.
          The best defense is a good offense

          Many people said Roethlisberger because he has a SB ring on his finger. The comments about the playoffs were made to show that Steelers were lucky to even be in the Superbowl, they weren't just this dominate team. And my unbiased opinion today, as it was then, that it was more of a fluke than anything else.
          Everything the Steelers do is a fluke right?

          I'm sure you were one of the people that said 15-1 was a fluke and Ben would have a "sophmore slump".

          Now the playoffs and superbowl are a fluke aswell.

          Whats it going to take for people to accept the Steelers as a good team?
          Nothing. I think they are a great team. I think that is more of the argument concering Ben.
          15-1 was said to be a fluke last offseason

          He just said the superbowl was a fluke.

          That argument concerns more than just Ben.
          Well he is wrong then. The Superbowl wasn't a fluke. What other team could win the Superbowl with their QB having a day like he did.
          Of course Ben scored a touchdown that doesn't show in his stats. Something more than what Eli did in his playoff performance last year.

          Comment


          • #95
            Of course Ben's touchdown shows in the stats. Rushing pops up in the bos score. Even with that touchdown, it was a pathetic showing. Eli was pathetic as well. The difference was Eli's team was also pathetic.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Jughead10
              Originally posted by eacantdraft
              Originally posted by Jughead10
              I'm always not going to like Ben probably and that will show in my posts. Nothing football related either, I just don't like him as a person because of certain things he does and says.
              Care to elaborate more on why you don't like him? You don't have to like a person to recognise what a great performer they are. I never really cared for Roger Clements as a person, but I can recognise him as the greatest pitcher of his generation. Only a homer is unable to do that.

              Alot of people including me find the Mannings to be a spoiled family who don't justify the royalty status they give themselves. Yet I recognise Peyton as a top QB in every aspect except winning playoffs. I don't think any descendent of Archie Manning will ever make it to a Super Bowl. They choke on the silver spoon in their mouths every time in the playoffs.
              The reasons I don't like him probably can't be discussed on this forum because of the rules. However I can say that one reason is because of his history on blaming the few losses he has on injury. I can't stand that. I wanna put my hand through the TV when I see a CB come up limping because he gave up a big play. That is a big pet peeve of mine.

              Me not liking him for personal reasons has nothing to do with me not recognizing him. I have said he is better than Manning now. Its not like Giants fans are the only ones saying these things about how he is in an ideal situation. This season will be interesting, to see if they really open up the Pittsburgh offense and give Ben more repsonsibility like most QBs in the NFL have.

              People get on Eli for the interceptions, but Ben actually throws more INTs per pass attempt. Then again he also throws more TDs per pass attempt. Should be a fun year. A lot of question will be answered for the both of them.
              The point of football is too win championships, not to see what yards the QB gets. This is the fantasy football mentality.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by eacantdraft
                Originally posted by Jughead10
                Originally posted by eacantdraft
                Originally posted by Jughead10
                I'm always not going to like Ben probably and that will show in my posts. Nothing football related either, I just don't like him as a person because of certain things he does and says.
                Care to elaborate more on why you don't like him? You don't have to like a person to recognise what a great performer they are. I never really cared for Roger Clements as a person, but I can recognise him as the greatest pitcher of his generation. Only a homer is unable to do that.

                Alot of people including me find the Mannings to be a spoiled family who don't justify the royalty status they give themselves. Yet I recognise Peyton as a top QB in every aspect except winning playoffs. I don't think any descendent of Archie Manning will ever make it to a Super Bowl. They choke on the silver spoon in their mouths every time in the playoffs.
                The reasons I don't like him probably can't be discussed on this forum because of the rules. However I can say that one reason is because of his history on blaming the few losses he has on injury. I can't stand that. I wanna put my hand through the TV when I see a CB come up limping because he gave up a big play. That is a big pet peeve of mine.

                Me not liking him for personal reasons has nothing to do with me not recognizing him. I have said he is better than Manning now. Its not like Giants fans are the only ones saying these things about how he is in an ideal situation. This season will be interesting, to see if they really open up the Pittsburgh offense and give Ben more repsonsibility like most QBs in the NFL have.

                People get on Eli for the interceptions, but Ben actually throws more INTs per pass attempt. Then again he also throws more TDs per pass attempt. Should be a fun year. A lot of question will be answered for the both of them.
                The point of football is too win championships, not to see what yards the QB gets. This is the fantasy football mentality.
                Obviously that point of football is to win championships. I don't see anyone arguing who is better the Giants or Steelers. The Steelers are better. That is clear. What isn't so clear is which QB is better. Phil Simms has more rings than Dan Marino, but you would have a hard time finding someone who said Simms was better.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Simms and Marino, really have no place in this discussion. Simms has 2 rings and Marino, is just the greatest of all time. The point is, Eli hasn't done anything to warrant him as a qb in the same class as Big Ben. Plain and simple, Ben has a ring and alot better winning percentage. Just because he had a bad game in the superbowl, doesn't take away what he has done. He still scored a touchdown in the game, and if you watched the other playoff games, you cannot deny what kind of leadership this guy has. As for eli, he might want to actually show up when it comes time for the playoffs. Then again, his bro peyton doesn't know what that means either.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by scorchin
                    Simms and Marino, really have no place in this discussion. Simms has 2 rings and Marino, is just the greatest of all time. The point is, Eli hasn't done anything to warrant him as a qb in the same class as Big Ben. Plain and simple, Ben has a ring and alot better winning percentage. Just because he had a bad game in the superbowl, doesn't take away what he has done. He still scored a touchdown in the game, and if you watched the other playoff games, you cannot deny what kind of leadership this guy has. As for eli, he might want to actually show up when it comes time for the playoffs. Then again, his bro peyton doesn't know what that means either.
                    Ben did play phenominal in the playoffs leading up to the Superbowl. It was great coaching too. Teams were waiting for the run like the Steelers always do and then they came out passing. Got a lead and then ran the ball down their face. However the year before Roethlisberger was awful in the playoffs and he was awful in the Superbowl too. So I wouldn't tout him as a big game QB quite yet.

                    Simms and Marino might have been bad examples but you get the point. I could have used Dilfer and McNabb to bring up the same point but those two were the first to pop in my head. We will see this year. Until the Steelers open up their offense more and let Ben do more things like most NFL QBs are expected to do, he will always be viewed as more of a caretaker than a great QB.

                    Comment


                    • No point in dicussioning this now, wait until both careers are over..It's the logical approach to this debate, and who knows Losemen can pass everyone shutting everyone up. You never know, arguing like kids and calling each other names isn't going to solve anything. That's the problem when fans from different teams are all on one forum, it's impossible to actually get stuff to tlak about about without someone taking offense to some comment.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Jughead10
                        Until the Steelers open up their offense more and let Ben do more things like most NFL QBs are expected to do, he will always be viewed as more of a caretaker than a great QB.
                        That is just wrong though. Ben has shown he is a very accurate QB with great decision making. He can scamble and make big plays out of nothing. Look at his pass to Ward in the Superbowl when it was 3rd and 21 or something. Most QBs would not have made that play.

                        You have been giving Eli the benefit of the doubt saying he will have his breakout year in his 3rd season like most QBs do. Ben will be in his third year aswell. I expect to see him take over the offense alot more than he did in the last two years. We will still have a rush based offense, like the Giants, but we will be throwing the ball more early in the games like we did in the playoffs. Pass early and take the lead and run the clock out in the 2nd half.

                        Thanks to The Dynasty for the sig

                        Comment


                        • I wouldn't neccesarily call the Giants a rush based offense.

                          Comment


                          • That is just wrong though. Ben has shown he is a very accurate QB with great decision making. He can scamble and make big plays out of nothing. Look at his pass to Ward in the Superbowl when it was 3rd and 21 or something. Most QBs would not have made that play.

                            You have been giving Eli the benefit of the doubt saying he will have his breakout year in his 3rd season like most QBs do. Ben will be in his third year aswell. I expect to see him take over the offense alot more than he did in the last two years. We will still have a rush based offense, like the Giants, but we will be throwing the ball more early in the games like we did in the playoffs. Pass early and take the lead and run the clock out in the 2nd half.

                            Ben's credit can stem from the fact your coaching staff, specifically Ken Whisenhunt is a genius and changed the offensive structure of the Steelers into what it is now, and factor in a sick DC, and things really came together.

                            We did something different, we threw Eli in the deepend of the pool and just let him try to swim himself, and things have worked out, and also drastically effected his progression as a qb. Both are different qbs, and both come from different systems, with different coaches, and thus very hard to compare in my opinion.

                            Comment


                            • This topic is tiring and old. Let's end it in a positive manner. I think we can all agree on this.

                              Each team got their guy, and each team is happy with their choice. Thats all.

                              As a Giants fan, Im happy we got Eli over the other 2, im sure Pittsburgh fans are extremely happy with Roethlisberger, and SD fans should be happy with Rivers. Everyone got their guy, no one is a loser here. Each will be great, and evaluating them as individuals in a team sport is always subject to debate and not entirely accurate. So theres no need for it. Especially after only 2 seasons. Thats just silly.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bigbluedefense
                                This topic is tiring and old. Let's end it in a positive manner. I think we can all agree on this.

                                Each team got their guy, and each team is happy with their choice. Thats all.

                                As a Giants fan, Im happy we got Eli over the other 2, im sure Pittsburgh fans are extremely happy with Roethlisberger, and SD fans should be happy with Rivers. Everyone got their guy, no one is a loser here. Each will be great, and evaluating them as individuals in a team sport is always subject to debate and not entirely accurate. So theres no need for it. Especially after only 2 seasons. Thats just silly.
                                As a Giant fan, I thought and still think the Giants overpayed for Eli in a QB heavy draft. To the Giants homers. What does Eli have (besides his last name) that makes loosing a shot at a Shawn Merriman, an Alex Barron, a David Pollack, or a Derrick Johnson? as well as other players with the other picks the Giants gave up?

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